Pochettino or Conte

[number41]

The only reason you can say Conte all day long is because of Poch. He elevated this club far beyond what it was and had been, it's probably why he still commands great respect with fans and those within

Exactly. There is no Conte without Poch. We should of rebuilt under Poch. He wasnt without his faults leading to what happened though. I wanted him back during the summer To start the rebuild. I don’t care if others think it’s was going backwards. But it is hard to go from Conte back to Poch now but I’d never be upset to see him back.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Terry won us something. Top man.

He had a Gazza tho.

 

[riggi]

He had a Gazza tho.

What team would you say is better? I was too young.

 

[Gassin's finest]

What team would you say is better? I was too young.

Nostalgia for my childhood says El Tel's. Gazza and Lineker we're legit 2 of the best players in the world then. Mabbs, Howells, Allen... Early idols for me. And won an FA Cup when I was 11.

But Harry's team was fun. Bale, VDV, Modric, Parker, King, Daws... Champions League adventure. It coincided with my first years in London and I went to every game I could.

 

[riggi]

Nostalgia for my childhood says El Tel's. Gazza and Lineker we're legit 2 of the best players in the world then. Mabbs, Howells, Allen... Early idols for me. And won an FA Cup when I was 11.

But Harry's team was fun. Bale, VDV, Modric, Parker, King, Daws... Champions League adventure. It coincided with my first years in London and I went to every game I could.

I meant the current team! I’m not that young ha.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I meant the current team! I’m not that young ha.

Lol, current team are fucking miles off. Only Kane and Hugo would improve either side.

 

[riggi]

Lol, current team are fucking miles off. Only Kane and Hugo would improve either side.

I thought as much. Eugh.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

You do realise that Conte literally said it was unacceptable after the loss at Burnley. How many managers do we go through before realising the squad is not good enough? The squad wasn't good enough the final year Poch was here and aside from the CL run we were falling off a cliff in the league. Lucky to get 4th but the way the following season started we were still falling downwards. Until we have a overhaul of the squad it really doesn't matter who is in charge. The squad is a long way off the one Poch had when w left finished 2nd. I'm sure Conte would have done well with that team and I'm sure Poch would struggle with this one.

I agree the squad is lacking its obvious even to a blind man and I haven't said get rid of the manager - but he is not above criticism. There his side and he is employed to find ways to win football matches and since the Chelsea game he has done poorly - the Mboro game was pathetic and his tactics were a big reason for the defeat.

We have gone form being in a strong position to finish 4th to being six points behind that lot and he needs to stop moaning and deal with what he has and start wining some games and spend less time moaning about everything that is Tottenham because its beginning to look he is finding excuses for him failing and looking a way out

 

[Spurs 1961]

I agree the squad is lacking its obvious even to a blind man and I haven't said get rid of the manager - but he is not above criticism. There his side and he is employed to find ways to win football matches and since the Chelsea game he has done poorly - the Mboro game was pathetic and his tactics were a big reason for the defeat.

We have gone form being in a strong position to finish 4th to being six points behind that lot and he needs to stop moaning and deal with what he has and start wining some games and spend less time moaning about everything that is Tottenham because its beginning to look he is finding excuses for him failing and looking a way out

We all know the squad needs a big revision but right now you are spot on. Conte is employed to get the best out of the team and he us failing miserably. Other teams with much worse players do better or go out trying to win games. I watched Luton give Chelsea a scare. The same Chelsea that Conte just gave ip against in three matches saying how unworthy we are to be on the same planet as them.

I have never seen a manager, nit even Jose, having achieved nothing with us being given such a free ride on here. Still some people think Bojo is great and others that Trump is just wonderful. You can fool some of the people …

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Sorry, but he's been in charge for one TW. This is not HIS side. He has inherited it.

He is the coach of this side and so the buck stops with him, but read the rest of the forum, go back to Poch's time and the likes of Winks, Sanchez were said to not be good enough then and are still here. That's not down to either Poch or Conte, mind you. That's down to the club not wanting to sell/those players not wanting to leave/nobody wanting to buy them.

So its not HIS side. This is actually still, by and large, Jose's side, with a pinch of Nuno thrown in, with a Poch side order. Kulusevski and Bentancur are like the amuse-bouche.

sorry whether he likes it or not there what he has he needs to work with them he knew that when he arrived. He has to get them working and winning matches the performances against Southampton Wolves and Boro were way below what those players should be able to produce. At Boro he got it all wrong, Wilder made changes and went agressive because we were there for the taking and that was directly because of Conte's tactics which were so negative.

To me all the negativity from Conte isn't productive it makes me think that he doesn't want to be here and that must have an effect on players. To be honest we all knew that when you bring him in its all a bit of a circus and its all about him and maybe if he stays then you might see an overhaul

 

[spurs mental]

sorry whether he likes it or not there what he has he needs to work with them he knew that when he arrived. He has to get them working and winning matches the performances against Southampton Wolves and Boro were way below what those players should be able to produce. At Boro he got it all wrong, Wilder made changes and went agressive because we were there for the taking and that was directly because of Conte's tactics which were so negative.

To me all the negativity from Conte isn't productive it makes me think that he doesn't want to be here and that must have an effect on players. To be honest we all knew that when you bring him in its all a bit of a circus and its all about him and maybe if he stays then you might see an overhaul

That's different to what you said though. You said it was HIS squad. Which it just isn't.

Now you're saying he needs to work with what he has. Which is correct. Every manager right now has to work with what he has.

Nobody has said that the performances were acceptable in those games. Check the Conte thread. I've said myself the Boro game was on him when people have tried to blame Levy for it.

But that's not what this thread is about. This is about Poch or Conte. You highlighted faults with Conte that are exactly the same ones Poch consistently had with Spurs, even at our peak.

If you had Poch manage this exact squad right now the results would be absolutely no different to what they are.

In fact I think they'd be worse.

Poch v Conte with this current squad, Conte wins 8 times out 10.

 

[Pebble Dash]

It’s very hard to judge Poch at PSG as he’s basically got the Harlem Globe Trotters of French football and despite being top of the league they’re still a bit shit. They look great going forward but weak in midfield and calamitous at the back. You would expect with PSG’s resources and players that they would be trouncing everyone but that’s not been the case. For me that sets off alarm bells as to Poch’s coaching abilities. They’ve basically Man City’s resources with a playing squad of Man Utd’s work ethic.

Given the state of our squad and the complete lack of squad harmony that was present during Poch’s peak, I don’t think he would be doing any better if not worse off with him instead of Conte.

That doesn’t mean Conte is the best man for the job either. He speaks some hard truths and ‘needs’ his own squad as opposed to the shite he’s currently working with. But he’s also seriously unstable and at a high risk of walking away, leaving us in even deeper shit. Patarici but Conte should equal some decent signings. No Conte and we’ll be back to Poch’s comments of we needed a washing machine but got a dryer or needed a kitchen and got a bathroom instead.

 

[Albertbarich]

sorry whether he likes it or not there what he has he needs to work with them he knew that when he arrived. He has to get them working and winning matches the performances against Southampton Wolves and Boro were way below what those players should be able to produce. At Boro he got it all wrong, Wilder made changes and went agressive because we were there for the taking and that was directly because of Conte's tactics which were so negative.

To me all the negativity from Conte isn't productive it makes me think that he doesn't want to be here and that must have an effect on players. To be honest we all knew that when you bring him in its all a bit of a circus and its all about him and maybe if he stays then you might see an overhaul

Well you said it yourself

We all knew what we were bringing jn with him. He has never hidden his passion and the fact he is overly emotional. Back him though and you win a title, don't and you get his bad side.

So now we're seeing his bad side, whose fault is it?

Would you prefer someone to come in and pretend they're happy with the squad? Do you think there are better qualified managers out there? I can tell you there isn't.

We have employed a genuinely world class manager who we knew was this way so what do we do? First chance to back him we make the squad weaker

Aren't we all bored of this debate with manager after manager after manager? It's not like we can go and get someone better? The board saw off poch, messed up with mourinho and I'm not even sure we can describe what a clown show the nuno appointment was.

In every other way apart from on the field the club acts like its the biggest in the world. If they can't match that on the field then sell up or lower prices accordingly for a mid table side so many of us aren't priced out of going and those that do T least get value for money.

 

[dudu]

I know how dear Poch is to many of our hearts but let's be honest..... in his first season here, plenty were unconvinced. All we can really judge between them is their impact in their first 15 games in charge with the tools they had at their disposal.

I would say squad for squad there are glaring holes in both - Conte definitely benefits from Son and Kane but Poch may have had the better CB in Verts CM in Dembele and definitely had more in terms of creativity with Eriksen, Lamela and Alli - all still raw but a lot more creativity than we have now id say.

Poch did get us to a final that season which we lost to Chelsea but we lost in the FA cup 4th round to a pretty poor Leicester side.

Poch First 15 in PL
W6 D3 L6

lost
3-0 at home to Liverpool
1-0 at home to West Brom
4-1 away at Man City
2-1 at home to Newcastle
2-1 at home to Stoke
3-0 at home to Chelsea

Conte First 15 in PL
W8 D3 L4

Lost 2-0 away to Chelsea
Lost 3-2 at home to Southampton
Lost 2-0 at home to wolves
Lost 1-0 away to Burnley

 

[Candianhotspur]

sorry whether he likes it or not there what he has he needs to work with them he knew that when he arrived. He has to get them working and winning matches the performances against Southampton Wolves and Boro were way below what those players should be able to produce. At Boro he got it all wrong, Wilder made changes and went agressive because we were there for the taking and that was directly because of Conte's tactics which were so negative.

To me all the negativity from Conte isn't productive it makes me think that he doesn't want to be here and that must have an effect on players. To be honest we all knew that when you bring him in its all a bit of a circus and its all about him and maybe if he stays then you might see an overhaul

I just dont understand this one...by that account Poch should have gotten the best outta the squad since it was "his squad" and didn't, Mourinho didn't, nuno couldn't and now conte cant. clearly this teams players are a great ideal more over rated then what people make them out to be bar a few players obviously. Weve had Trix and many people say next year is where it matters, which is why he is trying to instill his tactics now because like it or not its his playing style and those that remain next year will know it well with additional players who can suit the system. Poch his first year did not do the greatest either...people were saying he was stubborn with his tactics and he wasn't getting the best of out of his squad...next year he cleared house and got the players he needed to instill his tactics...and what did you know it worked well for him! Managers don't go in and adjust tactics consistently to suit the players. They instill a style of play and system that they believe in to bring success and build around it. Arteta at Arsenal you can see now its paying off even though many many arsenal fans have said for awhile now he's stubborn and the style of play was boring and didn't work with the players...they gave him time and got the players in...ragnick at man u is trying to do the same thing...klopp did it at Liverpool and didn't find success till a few years ,later when he got the players he needed but they never changed tactics... give conte time!

I still don't get this Wilder's tactics won the game and Conte did nothing...Wilder never changed his tactics, it was always sit deep and aggressively counter. Middlesborough created absolutely nothing against us in the first half, second half it was back and forth and in extra time they deserved it. We were clearly gassed because he has no one other then his starting 11 to play week in and out. Conte actually changed his tactics to a 4-3-3 and had the team push higher up the pitch. Unfortuantely, it didn't work out but don't get it wrong he tried to change things... I will wait and decide to save my judgement once he has a great deal more of a stamp on the squad. Is it his fault against wolves that hugo made a massive mistake and then davies I believe... is it his fault davies slipped against Southampton and emerson made the same mistake twice...yes lets blame him for massive mistakes that these players have been making well before he even came.

Time guys, time is what he needs.

 

[freeeki]

Jesus fucking Christ, no sane football fan chooses Poch over Conte, anywhere, ever.

 

[Trix]

It’s very hard to judge Poch at PSG as he’s basically got the Harlem Globe Trotters of French football and despite being top of the league they’re still a bit shit. They look great going forward but weak in midfield and calamitous at the back. You would expect with PSG’s resources and players that they would be trouncing everyone but that’s not been the case. For me that sets off alarm bells as to Poch’s coaching abilities. They’ve basically Man City’s resources with a playing squad of Man Utd’s work ethic.

Given the state of our squad and the complete lack of squad harmony that was present during Poch’s peak, I don’t think he would be doing any better if not worse off with him instead of Conte.

That doesn’t mean Conte is the best man for the job either. He speaks some hard truths and ‘needs’ his own squad as opposed to the shite he’s currently working with. But he’s also seriously unstable and at a high risk of walking away, leaving us in even deeper shit. Patarici but Conte should equal some decent signings. No Conte and we’ll be back to Poch’s comments of we needed a washing machine but got a dryer or needed a kitchen and got a bathroom instead.

Thing is at the least, we will have players with the right attitude and mentality in the side. It will at least be a platform a new manager could come in and work with. Without Conte coming in and cleansing the squad, we'd just have another manager coming in being told "These players cost a lot of money make it work". At the very least those players will be gone, and winners will be brought in. Even if he does only stay for one more season after this(that of course is just speculation).

 

[Bobby TwoShots]

Jesus fucking Christ, no sane football fan chooses Poch over Conte, anywhere, ever.

No sane football fan chooses to support Tottenham ever, so that argument's dead in the water

 

[Pebble Dash]

Thing is at the least, we will have players with the right attitude and mentality in the side. It will at least be a platform a new manager could come in and work with. Without Conte coming in and cleansing the squad, we'd just have another manager coming in being told "These players cost a lot of money make it work". At the very least those players will be gone, and winners will be brought in. Even if he does only stay for one more season after this(that of course is just speculation).

I agree, that’s most definitely a positive to Conte. He’s in effect got the club over a barrel, back him or he’s off and not just that, should he go the club will be in complete disarray from a squad/playing perspective.

I do feel sorry for Conte in the sense that we let the baggage go but only brought him Bentancur in the middle and left him with a limited Hojbjerg, an injured Skipp and a Sunday League player in Winks.

He’s just frustrating in the sense that he persists with a 343 even when it’s clearly not working and although this or a 352 will be our formation moving forward, whilst be have the players who don’t suit this system it makes no sense to keep playing it.

Look at Son, Bergwijn and Moura… they’re very good to decent when running at the opposition but when they have to play with their backs to goal they’re a waste of space. It’s pointless having a frightening attack on paper when we don’t play to their strengths.

 

[Montalbano]

Let’s not entertain the Conte or Poch debates anymore.

Conte is a completely different class to him.

Harsh reality: Poch is a poor manager. Underperformed at Spurs, greatly underperformed at PSG. Don’t want him back at the club again.