Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

[sunnydelight786]

Nothing wrong with what Carragher said. We do have to finish above Arsenal for a considerable period of time for a power shift to happen.

It's also true that we won't be treated like Arsenal, Manchester clubs because quite simply we had nowhere near success with what they had.

Liverpool will be always talked about whether you like it or not. They have a massive fan following all over the world- the media simply cannot afford to ignore them.

Correct. For our supposed period of dominance over AFC we have the square root of fuck all to show for it. Even in AFC supposed decline these last 4/5 years they still have 3 FA cups to put on the table whereas we have hard luck stories which our fans grasp on to.

1 season finishing above them doesn't = dominance. Carragher is correct in saying it has to be done over a period of time & I'll add further by saying winning more trophies than them too in that period. We have to start winning trophies, and I really mean that, if this team/period in time is to be remembered in years to come.

Some of you lot look back nostalgically at the VDV/Bale/Modric team eulogising about how great they were whereas I look back at it in sadness at the fact they won NOTHING when they really should have done. I pray to god MP changes his attitude towards domestic cups or this present team will go the same was as that one because we're not winning the CL/PL any time soon....

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Carragher confirming that pundits treat us differently, does anybody still want to argue about this?

It's pretty obvious from these quotes what they think of us, many positives of course but also at the same time not sure why he is plucking random figures out of thin air? Five or six seasons above Arsenal would make us bigger than them? Where do they get this shit from?

It makes zero sense, they just seem to move the goalposts all the time, all they kept doing last season was talking about a power shift, Arsenal beat us once and now they are all backtracking lol.



This is what he said :

"Tottenham just have the edge and will finish above Arsenal this season, but a power shift, no,' Carragher told Sky Sports.

'It has to be five or six seasons where you finish above your rival. I think a big foreign player would choose Arsenal.

'Until we start treating Tottenham like we treat Arsenal, the Manchester clubs and Liverpool, that's when you think they have overtaken them.'

We still think of Spurs as a young team, there is no bigger fan of Spurs than me, love the way they play, the manager, the players, but we still don't treat them the way we do the other big players.'


I would love to know what Liverpool have done in recent times to warrant people talking about them?





Also, on a side note, Eriksen had this to say about the media and what they write about us.

People talk about statements,” said Eriksen.

“But people looked at the Group beforehand with Real Madrid, Dortmund and people said we’re going to have a tough time and end up in the Europa League.

“Now we’ve shown it’s not going to be like that. We’ve shown we are better than that and that we can compete in the Champions League with some great wins and good points.

“But people need to have something to write. It used to be that we could not win at Wembley. We don’t hear that any more.”

I can't see anything wrong with any of that. When he's talking about how the rest are talked about, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the expectation as much as anything else. How are Arsenal currently talked about in the media? Soft, lacking bottle, always on the edge of a crisis, best players wanting to go etc....because they're a club expected to be challenging for the top honours and they're not. In the meantime, we're good old Tottenham, because we're not yet expected to do anything. So even though we've won nothing and they've won some FA Cups, the recent narrative has very much been that we've overtaken them, based on finishing ahead of them for the first time in 20+ years

None of what you've quoted suggests in any way a bias against Tottenham, which is why is being claimed in this thread

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

No it’s my understanding that we don’t have the depth of squad to compete on 4 fronts at the moment, and my understanding that the next 5-10 years it’s vital to fill the new stadium for at least 22 games a season, which won’t happen playing in the EL.

This squad will slowly get depleted because of our wage structure, to risk it being ripped apart without guarantee of actually winning the dame Carabao Cup. Once you get to the semifinals all teams will field their strongest teams, but the other big teams that are still left in it, both Mancs and Chelsea have much more depth to be able to cope with the extra fixtures, we don’t. Just look at our injuries this season, and the players playing carrying knocks.

its a fucking straw man because I have not said any of what you claimed, or are now arguing against. I have no idea where you've got the idea that I've said we should be prioritising the Carabao Cup ahead of other trophies, so any argument you make falls down exactly there. stop this nonsense please.

 

[rocklink]

We failed to win when it matters most .. We make silly mistakes after mistakes on these kind of matches.. yah i know we beat madrid and dortmund and that is big for us but look at the league form of madrid and dortmund this season... Both of those teams are quite low on confidence and we won against them .. this season the only win that is really impressive for me is thrashing liverpool ... Otherwise when opposite team turned up against us, we usually lose the match.. chelsea in league cup final three seasons ago, conceding two goals vs chelsea and made leicester win the league, losing against chelsea in fa cup semi final .. Also i think our defense is good but certainly not world class specially the way people talk about it ... can we win 1-0 against the likes of chelsea, liverpool, arsenal or utd? I dont think so ... but chelsea or utd can score one goal early against us and still not concede a single goal for the rest of the match ... Titles can only be won when we can regularly win 1-0 against big teams ...

 

[fletch82]

Personally I hope city implode just to shut some of you the fuck up about how great amazing and feckin fantabulous they are.
Feel like I'm on blue moon at times.

 

[topper]

Personally I hope city implode just to shut some of you the fuck up about how great amazing and feckin fantabulous they are.
Feel like I'm on blue moon at times.

What you mean this isn't ' Blue Moon'? Feck , I've been on the wrong site all these years though I did wonder why there wasn't more publicity when we signed Kane and Dele given all the noise when we gave up the loose change for Walker?

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Personally I hope city implode just to shut some of you the fuck up about how great amazing and feckin fantabulous they are.
Feel like I'm on blue moon at times.

this is a title race thread, and we're 11 points behind the leaders. should we be saying how amazing we are instead?

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Carragher confirming that pundits treat us differently, does anybody still want to argue about this?

It's pretty obvious from these quotes what they think of us, many positives of course but also at the same time not sure why he is plucking random figures out of thin air? Five or six seasons above Arsenal would make us bigger than them? Where do they get this shit from?

It makes zero sense, they just seem to move the goalposts all the time, all they kept doing last season was talking about a power shift, Arsenal beat us once and now they are all backtracking lol.



This is what he said :

"Tottenham just have the edge and will finish above Arsenal this season, but a power shift, no,' Carragher told Sky Sports.

'It has to be five or six seasons where you finish above your rival. I think a big foreign player would choose Arsenal.

'Until we start treating Tottenham like we treat Arsenal, the Manchester clubs and Liverpool, that's when you think they have overtaken them.'

We still think of Spurs as a young team, there is no bigger fan of Spurs than me, love the way they play, the manager, the players, but we still don't treat them the way we do the other big players.'


I would love to know what Liverpool have done in recent times to warrant people talking about them?





Also, on a side note, Eriksen had this to say about the media and what they write about us.

People talk about statements,” said Eriksen.

“But people looked at the Group beforehand with Real Madrid, Dortmund and people said we’re going to have a tough time and end up in the Europa League.

“Now we’ve shown it’s not going to be like that. We’ve shown we are better than that and that we can compete in the Champions League with some great wins and good points.

“But people need to have something to write. It used to be that we could not win at Wembley. We don’t hear that any more.”

I've just seen Carragher's full comments. why did you leave out the parts which contradicted your argument?

Jamie Carragher says that there are double standards in the way we treat Tottenham players and other members of the top six.

Dele Alli was awful on Saturday and was roundly criticised in our 16 Conclusions, but his poor form has been barely mentioned elsewhere.

Carragher analysed the game on Monday Night Football and said: “If Mesut Ozil performed the way Dele Alli did in that game, we would be slaughtering Ozil.

“We still think of Spurs as a young team, there is no bigger fan of Spurs than me, love the way they play, the manager, the players, but we still don’t treat them the way we do the other big players.

“You look at the Spurs players and think, come on, you have got to step up, now is the time.”

translated: we're not nearly as critical of their shortcomings as we are of the teams around them. maybe we should be.

where is this anti-Spurs bias that is being claimed?

 

[homer hotspur]

The Arsenal game was a reality check. We had not, as many have been suggesting, become the clear 2nd best team in the league and main challengers to Man City. We are one of 5, quite evenly matched teams/squads- All 5 teams can be brilliant on their day and beat anyone, all 5 teams can go on long unbeaten and impressive runs, all 5 can have bad patches and shock defeats. We have been a more settled club, with fantastic team spirit largely engendered by Poch. Our squad is stronger than it was, but still lacks in real pace and variety of striking potential compared to the other 4.


Yes, it would be nice to win a cup/title. It is, however, hugely difficult to win either the PL or CL and like it or not, success these days is measured by finishing in the top 4 and qualifying for CL. It doesn't matter how much the pundits bang on about this team 'must win a trophy'. That would be forgotten very quickly if we drop out of the CL and that is more likely than not winning a trophy to prompt players/ manager to consider leaving. The Carabou cup now has a comedy name to go with its status. I'm sorry but it really is a pointless competition for teams at our level and is a bloody nuisance if you get to the later stages and have a 2-legged SF to play over a week in January just as the FA Cup starts. It is a competition that mid-table teams and those trying to get into Europe should target - It was brilliant when we beat Chelsea, it really meant something then, but not any more we are a different club. The FA cup is a bit different as it is the last game of the season and is still taken quite seriously by everyone. Also, the Europa league would be worth a go if we end up in it again, which is quite possible next season.


After so many years of mediocrity, when the League Cup was actually something we might target ,with a favourable draw, I still consider this current period the best for about 30 years but I don't see us establishing ourselves as definite top 4 or trophy winners, rather I see us as a serious contender for top 4 / possible trophy depending on injuries, fixture congestion, manager/players staying, key transfers in any given season - I suspect that the 2 Manchester clubs may have a period of dominance in the league but, I think the same will apply to the other 4 with us all starting each season realistically targeting 2 of 4 available CL spots.

 

[Lighty64]

its a fucking straw man because I have not said any of what you claimed, or are now arguing against. I have no idea where you've got the idea that I've said we should be prioritising the Carabao Cup ahead of other trophies, so any argument you make falls down exactly there. stop this nonsense please.

you might not be prioritising it, but you mentioned it could be important to become winners, and I'm just stating that the importance would come at a cost

​

we really need to change our attitude towards the domestic cups. they're BY FAR our most realistic chance of winning some silverware. they won't be enough on their own to keep our better players by any means, but they will at least give the team experience of actual winning.

I keep hearing that we can't afford to enter next season without CL football, but I really can't see why it would be a disaster. if anything, it might improve our chances of winning the league in our first season at our new ground. there are 6 teams annually fighting for 4 CL spots, so our financial model being built on qualifying every single season would be nothing short of lunacy. like him or loathe him, Daniel Levy didn't get to where is today by being a lunatic, so I'd imagine we'd be able to survive pretty comfortably for at least one year before it all came crashing down.

yes City spent a shitload in the summer, but with the exception of Ederson (who has made a massive difference) and to a lesser degree Walker, their improvement has largely been down to the players that were already there. the sums they spend are always going to look insane, but it's not as though the list of names they brought in (Ederson, Walker, Mendy, Danilo, Bernado Silva) was particularly impressive on paper, they've just been forced to pay way over the odds because of who they are.

there was more, but even I'm bored now, so congrats if you made it this far​

 

[Lighty64]

Carragher confirming that pundits treat us differently, does anybody still want to argue about this?

It's pretty obvious from these quotes what they think of us, many positives of course but also at the same time not sure why he is plucking random figures out of thin air? Five or six seasons above Arsenal would make us bigger than them? Where do they get this shit from?

It makes zero sense, they just seem to move the goalposts all the time, all they kept doing last season was talking about a power shift, Arsenal beat us once and now they are all backtracking lol.

to be fair Carragher wasn't the 1 that's been over hyping us as the team that "have Tottenham become a bigger team" in the build up.

what he is saying, is to show the tyed has turned we need to finish above them over a period, and just plucked those figures. he would still be wrong unless we went on a major trophy haul over that time. to be fair if Chelsea and Man C hadn't brought the money men in we could still be looking at every season being a 2 horse race and they might of kept improving. those 2 bringing in their money owners meant a big dent to Man U and Arsenal.

This is what he said :

"Tottenham just have the edge and will finish above Arsenal this season, but a power shift, no,' Carragher told Sky Sports.

'It has to be five or six seasons where you finish above your rival. I think a big foreign player would choose Arsenal.

'Until we start treating Tottenham like we treat Arsenal, the Manchester clubs and Liverpool, that's when you think they have overtaken them.'

We still think of Spurs as a young team, there is no bigger fan of Spurs than me, love the way they play, the manager, the players, but we still don't treat them the way we do the other big players.'


I would love to know what Liverpool have done in recent times to warrant people talking about them?

I expect the above highlighted to mean "start winning trophies"

he will bring Liverpool into it, because 1 he played for them his whole career, and won a few trophies, plus however much we want to dress it down, due to their history (even if it goes back to winning the majority of their trophies back in the 70's & the 80's) they have won div1 19 times, the European Cup 4, CL once, they have won the League Cup or whatever cup you want to call it the most, and won the FA Cup quite a lot. they have also won or been in more major finals than we have since he was involved in football.

us finishing above them 7 out of 8 years means nothing other than us being more consistent, yet when we beat them 4-1 that was the 1st time in 5 years we had beat them.

them and Man Utd at this moment in time are still the most successful teams from England of all time in the history of football, hence why they have such a big following the around the whole world, make a fortune in merchandise sales which means they can attract bigger players and pay more in wages.

hopefully the new stadium will close the gap, but until we pick up 10 league titles a few CL trophies and a few more other trophies, while punditry is Arse, Utd, and Liverpool biased we will always be classed as the bridesmaids even if the way we have improved, and the way we have done it (not spending a fortune) should get a bit more credit​

 

[Lighty64]

Correct. For our supposed period of dominance over AFC we have the square root of fuck all to show for it. Even in AFC supposed decline these last 4/5 years they still have 3 FA cups to put on the table whereas we have hard luck stories which our fans grasp on to.

1 season finishing above them doesn't = dominance. Carragher is correct in saying it has to be done over a period of time & I'll add further by saying winning more trophies than them too in that period. We have to start winning trophies, and I really mean that, if this team/period in time is to be remembered in years to come.

Some of you lot look back nostalgically at the VDV/Bale/Modric team eulogising about how great they were whereas I look back at it in sadness at the fact they won NOTHING when they really should have done. I pray to god MP changes his attitude towards domestic cups or this present team will go the same was as that one because we're not winning the CL/PL any time soon....

unless uncle Joe decides to put all his money into buying players that will be happy to sit on the bench and we have a very strong 25 man squad, we are going to struggle to win domestic trophies. for financial reasons he has to prioritise the PL and finish in the top 4, our squad isn't strong enough to compete for the CL trophy it's self.

the only way it changes is for the FA Cup, if we can be in a position that top 4 is cemented by the quarters then hopefully no injuries means we can field our strongest XI, and then hope we can get the luck on the day. when I say luck, it's not that often you restrict a team to only 5 efforts on target, and every bloody shot bar 1 goes in

 

[Lighty64]

We failed to win when it matters most .. We make silly mistakes after mistakes on these kind of matches.. yah i know we beat madrid and dortmund and that is big for us but look at the league form of madrid and dortmund this season... Both of those teams are quite low on confidence and we won against them .. this season the only win that is really impressive for me is thrashing liverpool ... Otherwise when opposite team turned up against us, we usually lose the match.. chelsea in league cup final three seasons ago, conceding two goals vs chelsea and made leicester win the league, losing against chelsea in fa cup semi final .. Also i think our defense is good but certainly not world class specially the way people talk about it ... can we win 1-0 against the likes of chelsea, liverpool, arsenal or utd? I dont think so ... but chelsea or utd can score one goal early against us and still not concede a single goal for the rest of the match ... Titles can only be won when we can regularly win 1-0 against big teams ...

when we beat Dortmund they were top, and if memory serves me right hadn't conceded a single goal

 

[Shadydan]

We failed to win when it matters most .. We make silly mistakes after mistakes on these kind of matches.. yah i know we beat madrid and dortmund and that is big for us but look at the league form of madrid and dortmund this season... Both of those teams are quite low on confidence and we won against them .. this season the only win that is really impressive for me is thrashing liverpool ... Otherwise when opposite team turned up against us, we usually lose the match.. chelsea in league cup final three seasons ago, conceding two goals vs chelsea and made leicester win the league, losing against chelsea in fa cup semi final .. Also i think our defense is good but certainly not world class specially the way people talk about it ... can we win 1-0 against the likes of chelsea, liverpool, arsenal or utd? I dont think so ... but chelsea or utd can score one goal early against us and still not concede a single goal for the rest of the match ... Titles can only be won when we can regularly win 1-0 against big teams ...

Nice use of selective memory there, if you're going to go back to 2014/15...God knows why you'd do that seeing as we weren't really considered a top team in that season but okay...fine:

We beat Chelsea 5-3 in 2014/15 when they were flying at the top of the table.
We beat Man City 4-1 in 2015/16 when they won 5/6 and flying at the top of the table.
We beat Man City 2-0 last season when they had won 6 matches in a row and were flying at the top of the table.
We beat Chelsea 2-0 last season when they were going for a Premiership record of wins and were flying at the top of the table.
And as @Lighty64 said Dortmund were top of the Bundesliga and there we on form when we played them.

And those stats particularly from the last two season contradict your argument about our defence, we've been the best defensive team in the last two season conceding the least amount of goals, that's a fact you can't argue with. I don't understand why you'd make a point about our defence not being able to hold out particularly when we demonstrated this against Real Madrid in 180 mins of football, and this is without Wanyama who was arguably the best DMF in the league last season or a fully fit Dembele, not to mention Toby going down with an injury as well.

 

[smallsnc]

But this is the point, when we do have this horrendous spell of injuries why can't we have better players than Sissoko, Nkoudou and Llorente? Do you not agree that we can have players better than those three? And do you not agree that if we had these better players then Pochettino would trust them more, preventing burnout (and injury) of important key players?

Good squad depth is needed for three reasons. Firstly to allow the manager to rotate and keep key players fresh without too much drop in quality, secondly to have players capable of playing at a decent level when really called upon, and thirdly we need players good enough to make an impact on a game from the bench.

With two or three injuries we should still be having a decent bench. If Kane gets injured Son comes in and our bench is a joke again from an attacking perspective. It only takes 2 or 3 injuries to see the effects of poor quality backup players.

Llorente was just a bad call and we need to rectify that one as soon as possible. Numbers wise things are not too bad but we need more quality. Another forward and at least one midfielder depending on the Lamela situation.

The backup attacking options for our opponents are much more competent. Defensively we're good at the moment, but obviously things could change with Rose throwing his toys out the pram.

I think it is quality depth that is really affected the most by our wage structure. Quality players are will to sit the bench and be super subs with the occasional start if they are getting paid more. Very difficult to get the quality we want/need if our top earners or only being paid as much as our rivals subs.

 

[SpursDave88]

unless uncle Joe decides to put all his money into buying players that will be happy to sit on the bench and we have a very strong 25 man squad, we are going to struggle to win domestic trophies. for financial reasons he has to prioritise the PL and finish in the top 4, our squad isn't strong enough to compete for the CL trophy it's self.

the only way it changes is for the FA Cup, if we can be in a position that top 4 is cemented by the quarters then hopefully no injuries means we can field our strongest XI, and then hope we can get the luck on the day. when I say luck, it's not that often you restrict a team to only 5 efforts on target, and every bloody shot bar 1 goes in

We should have won that game - gave away a ridiculous penalty and the goal to make it 3-2 was defended so poorly, Dier moved out of the way of the ball on the line!

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

the Carabao Cup is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have all taken it seriously and won it since we last did. and also still managed to finish in the Top 4. for some reason, us daring to win it would hurl us headlong into oblivion and ruin.

the Europa League (when we're in it) is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet Man U and Chelsea have both won it in recent years, and no doubt Arsenal will be going all out to do so this season.

the FA Cup is so pointless, and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool have all managed to find the time (and space within their bulging trophy cabinets) for it.

none of these worthless trinkets for us we say, it's the league and Champions League we're interested in. admirably high goals, no question about it. however, if those are indeed our goals, then they are what we have to be judged by. so every single season that passes without us winning either of these HAS TO be considered a failure, right? wrong, because then we get to hide behind money, budget, net spend, squad size etc to protest we don't really have a chance at winning either.

we seem to want to operate in this space where we're never expected to win anything, and where Top 4 and a CL run are considered to be success. basically, we're on the verge of becoming all the things everyone has spent the last few years slagging off Arsenal for. only with less history or trophies.

 

[Shadydan]

the Carabao Cup is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have all taken it seriously and won it since we last did. and also still managed to finish in the Top 4. for some reason, us daring to win it would hurl us headlong into oblivion and ruin.

the Europa League (when we're in it) is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet Man U and Chelsea have both won it in recent years, and no doubt Arsenal will be going all out to do so this season.

the FA Cup is so pointless, and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool have all managed to find the time (and space within their bulging trophy cabinets) for it.

none of these worthless trinkets for us we say, it's the league and Champions League we're interested in. admirably high goals, no question about it. however, if those are indeed our goals, then they are what we have to be judged by. so every single season that passes without us winning either of these HAS TO be considered a failure, right? wrong, because then we get to hide behind money, budget, net spend, squad size etc to protest we don't really have a chance at winning either.

we seem to want to operate in this space where we're never expected to win anything, and where Top 4 and a CL run are considered to be success. basically, we're on the verge of becoming all the things everyone has spent the last few years slagging off Arsenal for. only with less history or trophies.

Where's this come from? Didn't you accuse someone of making up a straw man argument a little while ago, what have you done here? lol

 

[SpursDave88]

the Carabao Cup is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have all taken it seriously and won it since we last did. and also still managed to finish in the Top 4. for some reason, us daring to win it would hurl us headlong into oblivion and ruin.

the Europa League (when we're in it) is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet Man U and Chelsea have both won it in recent years, and no doubt Arsenal will be going all out to do so this season.

the FA Cup is so pointless, and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool have all managed to find the time (and space within their bulging trophy cabinets) for it.

none of these worthless trinkets for us we say, it's the league and Champions League we're interested in. admirably high goals, no question about it. however, if those are indeed our goals, then they are what we have to be judged by. so every single season that passes without us winning either of these HAS TO be considered a failure, right? wrong, because then we get to hide behind money, budget, net spend, squad size etc to protest we don't really have a chance at winning either.

we seem to want to operate in this space where we're never expected to win anything, and where Top 4 and a CL run are considered to be success. basically, we're on the verge of becoming all the things everyone has spent the last few years slagging off Arsenal for. only with less history or trophies.

All those you mention put out very weak teams in the early rounds of the league cup. You say we don't take that seriously...we don't take it any less seriously than the other big clubs, on top of which we did in fact get to a league cup final not that long ago.

Also, we take the FA cup seriously, we got to the semi final last year and played our strongest possible team!

I agree with your last point, but we have tried to win the FA cup and league cup, but we have also tried to use our squad effectively.

You mention Liverpool, do you remember the team they put out to beat us in the League cup last year? It was a second string, as it always is for the bigger clubs in the early rounds.

 

[Lighty64]

the Carabao Cup is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have all taken it seriously and won it since we last did. and also still managed to finish in the Top 4. for some reason, us daring to win it would hurl us headlong into oblivion and ruin.

the Europa League (when we're in it) is so pointless and we're too big for it, yet Man U and Chelsea have both won it in recent years, and no doubt Arsenal will be going all out to do so this season.

the FA Cup is so pointless, and we're too big for it, yet City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool have all managed to find the time (and space within their bulging trophy cabinets) for it.

none of these worthless trinkets for us we say, it's the league and Champions League we're interested in. admirably high goals, no question about it. however, if those are indeed our goals, then they are what we have to be judged by. so every single season that passes without us winning either of these HAS TO be considered a failure, right? wrong, because then we get to hide behind money, budget, net spend, squad size etc to protest we don't really have a chance at winning either.

we seem to want to operate in this space where we're never expected to win anything, and where Top 4 and a CL run are considered to be success. basically, we're on the verge of becoming all the things everyone has spent the last few years slagging off Arsenal for. only with less history or trophies.

They are not pointless, we just don't have a squad that can compete on 4 sides compared to the other teams you have mentioned, and at the moment due to the Stadium CL qualification which pays so much more than winning a trophy will hopefully give us a chance to pay our players more and at least level to what Arse and Liverpool pay their players.

it will also allow us to attract players that want to move away from teams that want to play for CL teams or get paid silly wages. if we could of matched what Liverpool do on the wages front we might of signed Mane, if we could compete in the wages transfer market we might of been able to of picked up Batshyui, both those players could of made a massive difference last season.

until we can pay better, and get a bigger budget to spend in the transfer market we are going to have to put CL qualification top's, and just hope when we do rotate in the domestic cups that the team performs and gets the breaks.

I know I would rather be were we are, then were we were in 2008