Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

[Roynie]

Not going to be easy against West Brom. We could send them down with a win or draw so they are going to be fighting for their lives.

True, but it also means that they can't afford to just sit back and defend. Although I haven't seen any of their last 2 or 3 games, by all accounts they have played well. If it's an open game I expect a reasonable win, but we will have to be quick out of the traps and up for the game!

 

[dannythomas]

Since we lost at Man City we have won 6 and drawn 3 of our last 9 away league games. That’s not to say we definitely won’t lose at West Brom but perhaps we are not in such bad form as people suggest.

 

[chinaman]

I don't mind another ugly win on Saturday. After that, we can really play in style in our last two games. Another 3rd place finish.

 

[bubble07]

8 games ago we were 1 point behind Chelsea in 5th position. We need to remember that instead of saying spurs never make it easy. The fact that we gained 6 points on them in 8 games in excellent

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Eriksen on his way then?

Possibly Dave but I doubt anyone in this particular thread thinks it's relevant.

 

[Styopa]

Beat West Brom and Champions League Football is all but won for another season:

A win on Sat guarantees we will finish no lower than 4th if Chelsea fail to beat Liverpool the following day. And if Chelsea don't win then Liverpool too are guaranteed to finish no lower than 4th.

If Chelsea do beat Liverpool then 3 points against West Brom means we need 1 more point to secure 4th or just 2 points to secure 3rd.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Other one is locked

Still has no relevance to this thread tbh ...

ITK forum perhaps?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Don't have access

Makes sense.

 

[Finchyid]

Its in our hands, win our last three games and we are 3rd at least....simples

 

[spursfan77]

We always draw 1 all at WBA so prepare yourselves for that. I think we will win the next 2 games though so that should be enough if liverpool drop points at chelsea.

Risk averse me wants a draw between chelsea and liverpool but if we beat west brom then we want a chelsea win I think. FWIW I think chelsea will beat them sunday.

 

[wirE]

Caught this comment from a fan on the BBC commentary: If Man City, Man Utd Tottenham and Chelsea get within the top four, Liverpool win the Champions League and Arsenal win Europa League, will there be six teams from England in Champions League next year?

Could this be or does one have to go?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/4398..._the_day&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=sport

 

[wirE]

We always draw 1 all at WBA so prepare yourselves for that. I think we will win the next 2 games though so that should be enough if liverpool drop points at chelsea.

Risk averse me wants a draw between chelsea and liverpool but if we beat west brom then we want a chelsea win I think. FWIW I think chelsea will beat them sunday.

In the last five games against them we've drawed four and only won one. 4-0, 1-1, 1-1, 1-1, 1-1. WBA been looking good lately and they're battling for relegation so we're in for a tough game imo

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Caught this comment from a fan on the BBC commentary: If Man City, Man Utd Tottenham and Chelsea get within the top four, Liverpool win the Champions League and Arsenal win Europa League, will there be six teams from England in Champions League next year?

Could this be or does one have to go?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/4398..._the_day&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=sport

Max of 5 teams.

 

[Yid-ol]

Caught this comment from a fan on the BBC commentary: If Man City, Man Utd Tottenham and Chelsea get within the top four, Liverpool win the Champions League and Arsenal win Europa League, will there be six teams from England in Champions League next year?

Could this be or does one have to go?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/4398..._the_day&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=sport

If only this had been answered maybe ten or more times in here

Max 5 teams and team in 4th will miss out.

 

[Wellspurs]

Funny enough tonight's goons match has a big bearing on this.
If they win it will be panic time for Chavs as 4th with us third won't guarantee CL.

 

[coys200]

You know that saying blood out of a stone. This thread certainly defies it. ?

 

[Chris Finch]

In the last five games against them we've drawed four and only won one. 4-0, 1-1, 1-1, 1-1, 1-1. WBA been looking good lately and they're battling for relegation so we're in for a tough game imo

We drew 3-3 at the place couple years ago also. Eriksen last min

 

[ilya]

Caught this comment from a fan on the BBC commentary: If Man City, Man Utd Tottenham and Chelsea get within the top four, Liverpool win the Champions League and Arsenal win Europa League, will there be six teams from England in Champions League next year?

Could this be or does one have to go?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/4398..._the_day&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=sport

Pls not this shit again...

 

[EmperorKabir]

Funny enough tonight's goons match has a big bearing on this.
If they win it will be panic time for Chavs as 4th with us third won't guarantee CL.

EDIT: MY POST HAS BEEN CORRECTED BY OTHERS IN THE POSTS AFTER THIS. BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW IT USED TO WORK IN YEARS PRIOR TO THIS.... THEN READ THIS POST LOL



Sorry, this is completely incorrect to my knowledge. I keep seeing misunderstandings on this forum, but to be honest, I don't blame anyone as the ruling is so ridiculous that it's understandable that people think... surely this isn't right.

The ruling is ridiculous but it is as follows:

When Liverpool won in Istanbul but came 5th in the domestic league, they did that dodgy match with TNS to get back into the champions league for the next year as TNS put their champions league qualification status on the line against them as it would make them more money than playing qualifiers nobody would watch and they'd get knocked out of anyway. UEFA allowed it on that occasion but didn't like the idea of 5 teams from one nation going through, (and they seem to hate England anyway or at least did so more back then).

The ruling was changed for the season after this Liverpool/TNS stuff and became that if a CL winner finished outside the league awarded CL spots, then the last placed spot loses it (which happened to us when Chelsea won it). That team who loses the CL spot then gets the top Europa league spot instead (and the bottom placed league awarded spot for EL side gets no european football at all.)

At the time, winning the UEFA cup didn't qualify you for the CL, so it was unlinked to how spots were awarded. Winning the UEFA cup simply got you back into the UEFA cup again the next year.

Then the UEFA cup became the Europa league where the winners get a champions league spot, and this spot is an extra spot and in the case of England, a 5th spot if necessary. This spot is unlinked to the league awarded spots for European football. Stupidly, UEFA did nothing to address the original rule adjustment after Liverpool's TNS business.

So in short, a champions league winner finishing outside of the domestic league's CL positions will go into the CL again at the expense of the bottom placed CL awarded team who will get the EL instead, (again, at the expense of the bottom ranked EL awarded team who will get no european football). But a Europa league winner will get awarded a place in the following CL, with absolutely no messing around with the league whatsoever. Ridiculous! But that's how our wonderful lords and masters at UEFA have done this.

So we therefore have a ridiculous situation where perhaps this could happen:

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL winners)
6 Arsenal (EL winners)

in this example, Chelsea get a europa league spot, the other 5 go into the CL.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Liverpool (CL winners/losers, it doesn't matter)
5 Chelsea
6 (or lower) Arsenal (EL winners)

top 4 and Arsenal go into the CL. Chelsea will go Europa

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 (or lower) Arsenal (EL winners)

the top 4 and arsenal go into the CL. Liverpool get Europa.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 Arsenal (EL losers)

top 4 get CL, and Liverpool and arsenal get europa league.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL winners)
6 Arsenal (EL losers)

the top 3 and liverpool go into the CL. Chelsea and Arsenal get Europa.



What is so ridiculous is that the Europa league has more flexibility and merit in terms of awarding the extra spot to the winner's domestic league than the champion's league. In conclusion, I hate Liverpool. and Chelsea.


happy to discuss this further but there's so much confusion about this that I thought it might be worth hammering it out as clearly as possible and referring back to a finalised post so that everyone can follow. I'm 99% sure I'm correct on this, but more than happy to edit based on anything I might be wrong about to ensure that everyone has the correct information.

edit: It's a little bit secondary but also be aware that complexities can occur with the awarding of Europa league spots. Most leagues offer their top number of the teams in the league the CL and the positions after that the Europa league. So for example, country ABC has 4 CL spots and 3 EL spots. Their FA decides to award the top 4 the CL and 5-7 the EL. Note that in England, we only award 5th the EL and we award the other 2 spots to the winners of the league cup and the FA cup. To make it even more complicated, we have messed about over the years with the question of 'what happens if the winner of the cup already has europe next season?' and we have sometimes given that to the cup final loser, and sometimes we have reverted it back to the league, allowing the 6th and sometimes 7th spot to get EL football as well. This happens a lot given that most cup winners already have been awarded European football through finishing in the top 5 (or 6 or 7) at the end of the season.

 

[MyNameIsNicolaBerti]

Sorry, this is completely incorrect. I keep seeing misunderstandings on this forum, but to be honest, I don't blame anyone as the ruling is so ridiculous that it's understandable that people think... surely this isn't right.

The ruling is ridiculous but it is as follows:

When Liverpool won in Istanbul but came 5th in the domestic league, they did that dodgy match with TNS to get back into the champions league for the next year as TNS put their champions league qualification status on the line against them as it would make them more money than playing qualifiers nobody would watch and they'd get knocked out of anyway. UEFA allowed it on that occasion but didn't like the idea of 5 teams from one nation going through, (and they seem to hate England anyway or at least did so more back then).

The ruling was changed for the season after this Liverpool/TNS stuff and became that if a CL winner finished outside the league awarded CL spots, then the last placed spot loses it (which happened to us when Chelsea won it). That team who loses the CL spot then gets the top Europa league spot instead (and the bottom placed league awarded spot for EL side gets no european football at all.)

At the time, winning the UEFA cup didn't qualify you for the CL, so it was unlinked to how spots were awarded. Winning the UEFA cup simply got you back into the UEFA cup again the next year.

Then the UEFA cup became the Europa league where the winners get a champions league spot, and this spot is an extra spot and in the case of England, a 5th spot if necessary. This spot is unlinked to the league awarded spots for European football. Stupidly, UEFA did nothing to address the original rule adjustment after Liverpool's TNS business.

So in short, a champions league winner finishing outside of the domestic league's CL positions will go into the CL again at the expense of the bottom placed CL awarded team who will get the EL instead, (again, at the expense of the bottom ranked EL awarded team who will get no european football). But a Europa league winner will get awarded a place in the following CL, with absolutely no messing around with the league whatsoever. Ridiculous! But that's how our wonderful lords and masters at UEFA have done this.

So we therefore have a ridiculous situation where perhaps this could happen:

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL winners)
6 Arsenal (EL winners)

in this example, Chelsea get a europa league spot, the other 5 go into the CL.

or
1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Liverpool (CL winners/losers, it doesn't matter)
5 Chelsea
6/7/whatever Arsenal (EL winners)

top 4 and Arsenal go into the CL. Chelsea will go Europa

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 Arsenal (EL winners)

the top 4 and arsenal go into the CL. Liverpool get Europa.

or

1 Citeh
2 Manure
3 Tottenham
4 Chelsea
5 Liverpool (CL losers)
6 Arsenal (EL losers)

top 4 get CL, and Liverpool and arsenal get europa league.



What is so ridiculous is that the Europa league has more flexibility and merit in terms of awarding the extra spot to the winner's domestic league than the champion's league. In conclusion, I hate Liverpool. and Chelsea.


happy to discuss this further but there's so much confusion about this that I thought it might be worth hammering it out as clearly as possible and referring back to a finalised post so that everyone can follow. I'm 99% sure I'm correct on this, but more than happy to edit based on anything I might be wrong about to ensure that everyone has the correct information.

Are you sure this....

"So in short, a champions league winner finishing outside of the domestic league's CL positions will go into the CL again at the expense of the bottom placed CL awarded team who will get the EL instead, (again, at the expense of the bottom ranked EL awarded team who will get no european football)."

Still applies? I thought it was scrapped after the maximum five teams rule was introduced?