Ratings vs Middlesboro

[Bus-Conductor]

I have to say, mate, that little screen grab looks a lot like your much vaunted 4-3-3 with Eriksen and Alli playing the 8/box to box respectively either side of a more dedicated, single DM. I'm surprised you're criticising it because of that.

When we didn't have the ball and we weren't pressing Sissoko and Son definitely dropped back to make it a more conventional 4-1-4-1 but when we did have the ball or we were pressing it looked like Erisken was playing that 8-style role in a 4-3-3 while Alli had more freedom to bomb forward and sort of go where he wanted as well as press when we lost it with Son and Sissoko pushing further up to become inside forward/winger respectively.

I acknowledged that it was difficult for me to truly discern what formation we were playing. I watched the game just about twice, checked heat maps, checked "INFLUENCE" maps and touch maps etc in order to try and get an accurate handle on it.

I think you could call it 433 - hence me saying something along the lines of "why not bring Winks on and make it more of an "orthodox" 433, suggesting that I did think it was a kind of 433.

I accept that with the fluidity of games, the nature of players and play to "follow the ball" at times it is very difficult at times (for me anyway) to identify formations, even during a whole 90 minutes. Except where Poch is concerned we've been so wedded to 4231 it's rarely been an issue.

But going by all the actual data available, and watching it twice, I would definitely describe it most accurately as a 41221/4141 more than a traditional 433, but I guess the dutch would call it a 433 pointing backwards or something?


All that aside, lets take a minute to applaud that Pochettino did try something different, and as I said, for 50 minutes it worked extremely well, probably the best 50 minutes of football we've played this season, possibly ? We not only dominated the ball but there was some tempo and fluidity, and people like Wanyama, Eriksen, Son, Janssen fulfilled their remits well and gave us good balance of skills, Alli and Sissoko slightly less so.

But the weakest part of Pochetino's make up is how he copes with the last phase of games, particularly when his teams are winning by 1 or 2 goal margins. It was something I continually pointed out before we hired him, and it continues to be a worry. At both clubs he's had seasons where his teams have turned over more winning points in the league. That is not a coincidence IMO. People will point to the fact that we also recovered more points than any other team last season, and that is great, but an easier task, tactically, that teaching a possession based team that prefers being on the front foot how to protect a lead, that is how teams win titles etc.

It wasn't that Boro ended up creating lots of chances (but if Rhodes puts that header anywhere other than straight at Lloris it's 2-2) but that was more because of their general lack of talented creative players, but they did have lots of dangerous possession, and there were several times when people like Traore broke through our midfield and they were bearing down with good numerical situations only to completely waste the situation.

I think the situation seemed so easy to read, they were piling through our midfield in central areas, not wide areas, it just seemed the most logical thing to put Winks on and try to get a busy body in there try and get back control of the midfield, the Sissoko/Lamela swap just did not address the situation that was unfolding IMO, it just through more chaos into the mix.

So for me, there were some new positives and some of the same old negatives from yesterday.I'm not suggesting we/Pochettino is unique in this, just we/he is who I am observing most and inevitably talking about.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Well done to @Bus-Conductor and @mpickard2087
Love your stuff!

I'm personally probably leaning towards calling it a kind of an attempt at 433, but more important than number combinations is that so far this season, it seems to me that Pochettino is evolving a bit from the more rigid system he has been known for. I pointed out in another thread that I think Pochettino is still learning the trade, and if a part of that is moving on from the stereotypical Pochettino formation, I for one will be excited in the future.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well done to @Bus-Conductor and @mpickard2087
Love your stuff!

I'm personally probably leaning towards calling it a kind of an attempt at 433, but more important than number combinations is that so far this season, it seems to me that Pochettino is evolving a bit from the more rigid system he has been known for. I pointed out in another thread that I think Pochettino is still learning the trade, and if a part of that is moving on from the stereotypical Pochettino formation, I for one will be excited in the future.

One swallow maketh not a summer ES, but as football fans, it's our duty/curse to live in hope.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

How were we hanging onto the game? Middlesbrough didn't create anything. If anything, I seem to recall us having quite a lot of the ball in the last 10-15 minutes.

See my answer above, just because they didn't create anything doesn't mean we were controlling the game. For large swathes of that final 30 minute phase we weren't, just because they were inept creatively doesn't make us efficient defensively be default.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

One swallow maketh not a summer ES, but as football fans, it's our duty/curse to live in hope.

Exactly.
I suppose I was also counting 2nd half vs. Everton. That was some form of something that could remotely resemble a system worth playing, but knowing Pochettino's in-game decision, it might have been pure accident.

 

[Mr Pink]

We had a slightly sluggish first 10 minutes, I remember Lloris had to dash from his line early on to prevent one of their players being clean through on goal, but after that for the first hour we dominated proceedings. Yes it's a team we'd hope to beat, but it was an assured away performance.

Interestingly the formation today seemed very much 4-1-4-1. I've seen a couple of people opine this was more accident than design, but for me it seemed quite deliberate. Alli and Eriksen seemed to dovetail as a duo in front of the sole holding player in Wanyama, with Son and Sissoko stationed on either flank.

During this spell of dominance I thought it worked pretty well. Wanyama was enough of a shield, Alli could drop deep to receive the ball but also make runs up in support of Janssen, whilst Eriksen was at the hub of everything we did often starting from much deeper and just connecting up the play.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we should have been 5-0 up, maybe more. Apart from Son's two cracking goals we saw chances for Eriksen, Janssen, and an absolutely guilt edge chance for Alli. Throw in a couple of decent penalty claims and we should have been thrashing them in all truth.

Then around the hour mark we had a poor five minute spell. We gave the ball away cheaply, gave away two or three silly free kicks, and that was all they needed. Yes it was out of the blue, yes it was harsh punishment for a few minutes of sloppy play, but that's what can happen at the top level of football.

The last half hour was then pretty disappointing after the first hour. Personally I felt our performance largely collapsed. Any intensity that was in our play disappeared, our passing lost its purpose and largely went nowhere, we lost our shape and suddenly the 4-1-4-1 shape looked a bit open and I thought some of our players looked leggy and had ran out of steam - Alli and Janssen in particular, and think Poch could have made earlier changes.

Boro had a couple of chances (the Rhodes header and then Traore's run where he failed to make a final pass that wasn't that difficult) but at no point did I think we were hanging on. Still, I'd have preferred not to see us let the game meander to its conclusion and it was a bit disappointing to see. We deserved more than a 2-1 win, even though it's still just three points.

Our start has laid decent foundations, and it's promising to see us comfortably beating teams we would hope to beat so far and showing the signs of being an efficient team, but we're going to have to be sharper and go up a level again next weekend against City, and I'd still like to see a bit more energy in our play that we still haven't rediscovered from last season.

Lloris - Good bit of sweeper keeping early on. One day he'll sort out his distribution, though I don't know why we insist on giving him so much of the ball.

Walker - Did ok. Bit of a quiet game.

Alderweireld - Solid enough game, but use of the ball was a bit off at times.

Vertonghen - Was also fairly solid. One nice run rolled back the years. Bit shaky late on.

Davies - Ok, fairly quiet game also.

Wanyama - Pretty decent display breaking up the play and shielding the defence when required. Passing a little off in the first half.

Sissoko - Where to start... Firstly I don't think he's really a wide player, and if he's going to do a job there then he'd be better on the left able to drive infield and onto his right foot.

Watching him the last few years he seems a very 'straight lines' player, and yes he's athletic and can carry the ball driving forward from deep, but that substantially different to being a pacey, tricky wide player. If this is the role they're going to give him, well don't expect miracles in my opinion.

As for his performance, it's not entirely surprising he's not on the wavelength of others in these early days. Some of his passing was a bit messy though, the goal conceded was basically him being a bit of a wimp and not attacking the ball, and when he went down I can't have been the only one who thought he'd had enough and wasn't exactly gutted to be subbed. Must do better.

Eriksen - At the hub of everything we did and the role suited him. Dipped as our performance tailed off.

Alli - I thought he was fine in the first half, bar that miss. Second half he largely just plodded around the pitch offering little and in my opinion was a prime candidate for the hook.

Son - Prepared to get shot down for this, but as I said at half time I think he had a bizarre game. In open play there were good moments but I thought he was often erratic. Losing the ball, going round in circles, never quite having it under control, you name it... Yet also came up with two cracking goals. That's not a bad habit to be getting into. He is seeing more ball and looks more lively in recent weeks, just a bit more consistency in what he does as the final stage for me.

Janssen - Wasn't hugely involved but when he was his hold up play was pretty good and he had a role in the opening goal. I felt he ran out of steam quite badly in the second half though, he mustered a few big efforts to chase down and tackle but was largely immobile towards the end and his hold up play suffered. Probably should have been hooked earlier. Might have to manage his workload or have a plan in mind for later in games?

Subs:
Lamela - Got involved, little of purpose though and did fuck around a bit on the ball.

Winks and Nkoudou - n/a.

Nice read, and agree with a lot of it. On Janssen I think it's a case of adjusting to the pace of this League. Once he fully acclimatises I don't envisage him tailing off to the same extent like yesterday.

 

[danielneeds]

Nice read, and agree with a lot of it. On Janssen I think it's a case of adjusting to the pace of this League. Once he fully acclimatises I don't envisage him tailing off to the same extent like yesterday.

I also think he's desperate to prove himself and is running himself into ground a bit. Once he's got a few goals in the bank, he can pace himself a bit better.

 

[mpickard2087]

Nice read, and agree with a lot of it. On Janssen I think it's a case of adjusting to the pace of this League. Once he fully acclimatises I don't envisage him tailing off to the same extent like yesterday.

I agree, until he gets to that point though then Poch needs to have a plan if/when he does start to flag and has to be subbed. Personally I'd have had Nkoudou on much earlier just to chase around up front, run the channels, and be a nuisance.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I also think he's desperate to prove himself and is running himself into ground a bit. Once he's got a few goals in the bank, he can pace himself a bit better.

I think confidence is an issue for him now.

 

[danielneeds]

I think confidence is an issue for him now.

I think the only similarlty I see with him and Soldado is that they are both such genuine guys, they really, really want to suceed, and sometimes that can mean putting too much pressure on oneself. A couple going in off his shin or butt and he'll be fine.

 

[whitelanefever]

6, Lloris..we know he an make saves .. distribution needs improving... at the moment every time he kicks I expect the ball to come back at us
6, Walker .. doe a job but nothing spectacular & offered zilch in an attacking sense.. positionaly in defense I wasn't impressed & against better opposition in CL we would be made pay for it.. his pace gets him out of trouble.. but he still needs to work on positioning
7.. Toby.. wasn't really tested & bit off on his passing otherwise an ok performancr
8. Verthonghen.. I thought Jan was our best player besides Son.. jut like last wk he times his forward runs intelligently.. good passing witout & doubt our best defender in this game
6 Davies.. I just don't get why he is rated even I first half against Gilingham I wasn't impressed with his passing.. his performance wasn't all bad & he had some good moments.. overall though I would say positionally poor& awful clerences giving our forwards of no chance of winning the ball (exact same against Gillngham in first half) He really needs to improve if he wants to stay at a club at the top of the lg
7 Wanyama..7 Passing & positioning poor.. had plenty of times his pace made him nick a ball.. every pass he gives means a player has to have an extra touch & he doesn't seem to give a pass to a player in his stride.. workmanlike would be best description of his performance but those expecting a bit more.. Frustrating
Deli..6.5 Some great movement after the first 15 mins when Eriksen dropped back & they dovetailed gret swapping positions for a good 40 mins.. boro subs meant we had to narrow our midfield & Deli dropped deeper.. the right tactical move by Poccetino.. exactly what I was thinking watching game
4 Sissoko.. pretty bad.. looked well off what is required in our system.. early days but even in first fifteen minutes he wasn't tracking runs.. hopefully its just getting used to demands of training however today he was awful..
7.5 Eriksen fr first 60 mns I thought he was our best player.. ran out of steam in last 2o however good performance overall..
8 Son.. Really on it at the moment.. however take away the goals ther was times he could of had better decision making.. he still receives the ball & doesn't know what he's going to do with it.. If poccettino can get him to know where he's going to run or pass before he even gets the ball.. he could be devastating.. talent unquestionable.. quicker decision making & we have world beater
6 Janssen.. ok loads of effort & holds ball up.. I likened him to Ricky Lambert when we were linked to him in the summer.. which is no bad thing.. if only he had a bit more pace & movement we'd be sorted.. things for coaches & him to work on (Gullit was dead right also)
4 Lamela.. been honest I expected a bit more this season .. still early days I know however why does he keep trying to do the hardest thing when the easy option is the best decision.. so bloody frustration
4 Winks.. I thought he should of replaced Sissoko after 55 mins.. as it was didn't have time to play himself into game
6..Nkoudou.. Made a real impact.. good tracking back in defence & was all the time looking around him & been vigilante.. little things that go unnoticed mean the most in securing points

 

[mendesstormer]

Just watched the game in full for the first time. A few quick points. We were excellent for the best part of an hour, by far the most fluent performance this season. Wanyama was an absolute beast, didn't put a foot wrong (my MOTM). Re formations, it was much more of a 4141 (41221, if you like) than a 433, because Wanyama was way behind Alli and Eriksen, and really the only one playing as a traditional midfielder (making his performance all the more impressive). Alli wasn't half as bad as some people are making out. Not his best game ever, but as usual he was getting in great positions and definitely deserved a penalty. Eriksen was class.