Read this and understand (you know who you are)

[NEVILLEB]

Potential points lost are hypothetical and therefore don't matter?

What a load of absolute rubbish!

To fail to prepare is to prepare to fail. It's totally stupid to give points away and then put your manager under pressure to finish in the top 4.

 

[parklane1]

This forum was full of threads aimed at Levy when the window ended. The press also criticised him on tv, radio,newspapers, websites... It's not a unique point of view!

I suppose you will say that has nothing to do with us showing their " rent a quote" the door? not only a closed mind but a blinkered one as well.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I suppose you will say that has nothing to do with us showing their " rent a quote" the door? not only a closed mind but a blinkered one as well.

You really are very deluded.

 

[parklane1]

You really are very deluded.

Wow, stop looking at yourself in the mirror

 

[NEVILLEB]

Wow, stop looking at yourself in the mirror

It's the press! They're out to get us! Bastards!

 

[parklane1]

It's the press! They're out to get us! Bastards!

You really are beyond help, stick to your dislike of Levy at least you are consistent.

 

[StartingPrice]

<IGNORE> - = SP contentment

 

[vegassd]

So while you focus on the money Levy saves you should also look at the money we lose by dropping valuable points. Look at the star players who move on because we can't provide Champs League football.

Did you even read BC's question?

We didn't buy VDV on deadline day because Levy is out to save money wherever possible. We bought him on deadline day because he wasn't available until then. According to Redknapp it was actually Madrid who called us up on the final and offered the player.

So how many points did VDV earn for us? Plenty I would say. And if we weren't open to doing business on deadline day we never would have signed him and I imagine we wouldn't have been 4th last season.

You mention last minutes deals as unsettling our star players. Who would you point to? Berbatov always wanted to go to United. Modric was always going to leave for more money. VDV left for personal reasons. Bale has signed a new contract and Adebayor has now signed for us permanently.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'll break it down for you.

+'vs

- Last minute deals are almost uniformly done to squeeze the fee down. There are savings to be made for sure.

-'vs

- We start the season with an incomplete first team and new players who aren't fit/don't know each other

- We lose valuable points which risk our qualification for Champions League football. This is a £30M pot of gold. How much money does Levy have to save doing deadline days to make up for missing out on £30M of extra income?

- It unsettles our managers and put them under tremendous pressure

- it creates a chaotic atmosphere at the club and can unsettle ambitious star players

And on...and on....


So while you focus on the money Levy saves you should also look at the money we lose by dropping valuable points. Look at the star players who move on because we can't provide Champs League football.

You deliberately avoid answering the question again.

In your "+" list you missed off this:

It is not just a case of saving a couple of quid. By waiting until the last minute, we are able to sign players like VDV and Adebayor who otherwise would not have been affordable at all.

So now you need to do some simple maths and try and answer the question:

How many points do you think players like VDV and Adebayor won us. Is this more or less than the 6 points Levy not signing them or by not signing inferior different options valuable prior ?

The next question you need to ask yourself is whether you'd rather Levy signed inferior players sooner or tried to sign superior players later.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

You deliberately avoid answering the question again.

In your "+" list you missed off this:

It is not just a case of saving a couple of quid. By waiting until the last minute, we are able to sign players like VDV and Adebayor who otherwise would not have been affordable at all.

So now you need to do some simple maths and try and answer the question:

How many points do you think players like VDV and Adebayor won us. Is this more or less than the 6 points Levy not signing them or by not signing inferior different options valuable prior ?

The next question you need to ask yourself is whether you'd rather Levy signed inferior players sooner or tried to sign superior players later.

It's not really a fair comparison though is it BC? Levy lucked out massively with VdV, we didn't get him thanks to Levy's brinkmanship did we? We got offered him, so not really sure how that is a positive in the Levy column.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I suppose you will say that has nothing to do with us showing their " rent a quote" the door? not only a closed mind but a blinkered one as well.

I'll say it again, for someone who gets on there high horse all the time if theres any sort of criticism or potential criticism of AVB or Levy i think its quite ironic that you werent shy in laying into our manager last year and seems your still at it. Maybe you should wind your neck in now the boots on the other foot.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

You deliberately avoid answering the question again.

In your "+" list you missed off this:

It is not just a case of saving a couple of quid. By waiting until the last minute, we are able to sign players like VDV and Adebayor who otherwise would not have been affordable at all.

So now you need to do some simple maths and try and answer the question:

How many points do you think players like VDV and Adebayor won us. Is this more or less than
the 6 points Levy not signing them or by not signing inferior different options valuable prior ?

The next question you need to ask yourself is whether you'd rather Levy signed inferior players sooner or tried to sign superior players later.

You know that as a fact that we could only afford them at the end of the window?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's not really a fair comparison though is it BC? Levy lucked out massively with VdV, we didn't get him thanks to Levy's brinkmanship did we? We got offered him, so not really sure how that is a positive in the Levy column.

We don't know how it actually went down do we. But if we are going to criticise Levy for the points he supposedly costs us by doing late business then it's only fair to add on the points that have come from doing that late business - regardless of the how we do it - which I repeat, none of us really know the full story. I would imagine that wasn't the first conversation we'd had with Madrid about VDV (in fact I'm pretty sure there were quotes knocking around from Redknapp confirming as much wasn't there ?).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You know that as a fact that we could only afford them at the end of the window?

It's a pretty well reasoned piece of logic wouldn't you say, otherwise we would have bought them sooner wouldn't we ?

 

[StartingPrice]

I'll say it again, for someone who gets on there high horse all the time if theres any sort of criticism or potential criticism of AVB or Levy i think its quite ironic that you werent shy in laying into our manager last year and seems your still at it. Maybe you should wind your neck in now the boots on the other foot.

I suspect that the difference is that Mr Redknapp had been in charge for 4 seasons, give or take, making his failings as well as his plus-points clear for all (or most, anyway) to see, and was apparently throwing away a gilt-edged chance to finish third because he thoght he had another job, to boot, whereas AVB has had only three games in charge, mostly without new/key players.

I suspect the fact that 'Arry was a media whore who got away with telling them to fack orf when they said something he didn't want to hear or didn't like being asked, whereas the same Press are on AVBs back with a clear and apparent agenda (related to their fap fap fapping over Mr Redknapp), may also be connected to the way some members of the site feel.

I had a few debates with ParkLane because I thought he was overly critical of Mr Redknapp a tad too early - but that doesn't mean that they way the Press are jumping straight on AVBs back with such a clear and prejudicial agenda isn't actually highly offenseive - it is.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

We don't know how it actually went down do we. But if we are going to criticise Levy for the points he supposedly costs us by doing late business then it's only fair to add on the points that have come from doing that late business - regardless of the how we do it - which I repeat, none of us really know the full story. I would imagine that wasn't the first conversation we'd had with Madrid about VDV (in fact I'm pretty sure there were quotes knocking around from Redknapp confirming as much wasn't there ?).

Yeah apparently we went for him but were quoted too much first off.

The point I was making, was that I wouldn't go as far as to say that Levy's brinkmanship 'costs' us points, although I wouldn't dismiss it, it's just one of those variables you are never going to know. However, using the flipside, which is what you are doing and I see that and understand, using VdV is a very poor example as it wasn't a result of Madrid caving in, they were basically trying to get him out.

 

[StartingPrice]

You know that as a fact that we could only afford them at the end of the window?

Porto didn't drop their price until the last day of the window.
Real were trying to sell VDV for nearly twice what we paid, for most of that window, and Mr Redknapp confirmed that we had been interested but couldn't afford him until Real suddenly decided to offer him to us right at the end of the window at £8 million (the fact that the price literally astounded the footballing World is a clear indication).
The hold-up on the Adebayor deal, according to all reliable ITK, was absolutely 100% a game of link first between him and Citeh, and we were nothing to do with the delay.

 

[StartingPrice]

Yeah apparently we went for him but were quoted too much first off.

The point I was making, was that I wouldn't go as far as to say that Levy's brinkmanship 'costs' us points, although I wouldn't dismiss it, it's just one of those variables you are never going to know. However, using the flipside, which is what you are doing and I see that and understand, using VdV is a very poor example as it wasn't a result of Madrid caving in, they were basically trying to get him out.

I think, overall, the most important thing to recognisse is that, for whatever reason, deals can be delayed/postponed because the Chairman is not willing to pay top dollar. Paying top dollar just to get it over with (especially in conjunction with selling cheap for the same reason) could seriously hamper our progress (fuck off, you know who you are, if you want to give me a neg, again for saying this just because you think that somewhere sometime you and a few pals reached a definitive conclusion on this and refuse to debate the matter further), buying inferior players to avoid this would, er, result in an inferior squad, and the only other alternative would be to do nothing - and I'm sure the very same folk would be whingeing about playing Jenas. So, really, the question is, do you acknowledge that, frustrating as this can be for us fans, by playing the game the way he does, within the constraints he ahs to, Levy is instrumental in the creation of a superior squad, or not. Obviously, if you think the former, obviously adjustable depending on the qualities of the manager/coach (again, who Mr Levy is reposnsible for appointing), then, ultimately, you are, de facto, saying that we gain points, and if you think the latter, equally, you think he is costing us points.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yeah apparently we went for him but were quoted too much first off.

The point I was making, was that I wouldn't go as far as to say that Levy's brinkmanship 'costs' us points, although I wouldn't dismiss it, it's just one of those variables you are never going to know. However, using the flipside, which is what you are doing and I see that and understand, using VdV is a very poor example as it wasn't a result of Madrid caving in, they were basically trying to get him out.

Right, but that is just one example of what happens when you are alive to deals on the last day, and I'm pretty sure it was as a result of us registering an interest in the first place but letting them know it wouldn't be on their terms/price quoted but one far more acceptable.

The last minute argument is pretty moot anyway. It's just a stick that some plums have grabbed from The Sun to beat Levy with instead of "he doesn't spend enough".

The reasons 99% of deals are done late is because that's when clubs realise that no-one is coming in to pay their original/desired valuation and nearly all clubs need the revenue from sales as football clubs make very little actual trading profit.

In case they didn't notice just about everyone is doing the last minute hokey cokey (manC were going mental this time round). What would they prefer if Levy just said "right, all our targets are too expensive I'm not doing anymore business even if the prices come down last minute" about two weeks before the window shut ?

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

It's a pretty well reasoned piece of logic wouldn't you say, otherwise we would have bought them sooner wouldn't we ?

Is it? What if were desperate and we end up paying what we were originally quoted. How do we know what the price is going to be At the end for us not to buy at the begining. If you go to a car boot sale and you see this vintage record that youve been trying to find for ages, it's 50 quid and you know that's what it's worth but your after a good deal so you haggle, they don't budge so then you have a look around the rest to see if they got something similar. There's nothing there so you go back to the first guy to get a good deal because it's last knockings, but the guy knows that's the Market value and can sell it at the next one, but because you've had a long bus journey and you really want this shawaddywaddy lp you end up forking out the 50 anyway. tbh VDV fee did reportedly get reduced at the end but I doubt his wages were any cheaper and who knows with regards Adebayor. it's all guesswork.