SC's Tactical Autopsy thread

[Mr Pink]

When I saw the line up on Sunday I just hung my head in dismay.

Sloth is right, he gambled, thinking better to go out fighting sort of thing. But its brutally revealed how naïve he is. Setting up like that only played into Liverpool's hands further. To show them no respect in terms of their attacking prowess was absolute suicide.

How did he think we were going to impose ourselves enough with that line up? How on earth did he think we'd get away with offering so little protection to the back four?

What really bugged me was the expression on his face when sitting in the stands. The look was sort of...what the fuck am I suppose to do with this lot. But in reality, he's completely compounding the situation with his decisions. Well, he's just a large part of problem.

He's had his little moment now filling in in the interim, needs to go and cut his teeth in the lower leagues.

 

[Mr Pink]

I would of played three in the middle....Sandro, Bentaleb, Eriksen......Dembele, Soldado, Chadli

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Even with such a weak midfield there is still absolutely no excuse for the lack of game plan.

At the very least we could have just held two banks of four and tried our hardest to frustrate them. But instead we just let them play around us and shrugged as they opened us at will.

There was one point when Sterling played a one two on the edge of our box, you could see what he was about to do when he started the move but Bentaleb just let him waltz through and nearly score. It was absolutely shocking and just displayed to me the absolute lack of belief that comes with no real game plan.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think we have so few options at the moment they were on there just to make up the numbers and if they were needed squeeze as many minutes as possible out of them.

I cant say this isn't without the benefit of hindsight, but I would have seriously thought about not starting with Soldado. Harsh after he did quite well against Southampton but I expected nothing from him in this match and so it turned out. I would probably have stuck Chadli 'up front' on his own and absolutely packed the midfield seeing as it was weakened. This wont be very popular but either wing I would have had Rose playing ahead of Fryers for some (well I'd pray for it) solidity and I would have had Lennon/Townsend, in the hope that they keep the fullbacks pinned back and I would have insisted that they run themselves into the ground for the cause... So I probably would have hooked Lennon after about 15 mins in that case

Eriksen Veljkovic Bentaleb
Winger Chadli Rose
​

Assuming all the centre mids were crocked.

He did have other options. Kane up front, Sandro, Dembele, Veljkovic etc.

Continually playing Lennon is unforgivable. But even worse is the very least I thought a feisty **** like Sherwood would not allow is a lack of work off the ball.

This really was a disastrous game in every sense for Sherwood.

 

[Spursidol]

He did have other options. Kane up front, Sandro, Dembele, Veljkovic etc.

.

But I think the problem as @mpickard2087 has already said is that Dembele and Sandro were not fit - Dembele with his persistent hip and Sandro his persistent knee problem. OK for a bench if they need to be brought on for the last 20/30 minutes but not ok for a whole match. I'm assuming that Paulhino was definitely out injured as he was not on the bench.

Putting a kid like Veljkovic on for a debut is not a nice thing to do. You would be right that we should have used the kids more in the easier Group stage EL matches so they might be ready for a match like this. But as we know that didn't happen.

So who else are the CM 2 or 3 ?

Whatever the selection of players, the same problems of a slow start (endemic this season) and individual errors ocurred allied with a general thought of 'I don't want to be here' from a number of players, and not the first time - seems to be a lack of leaders on the pitch which comes up particularly against the top 4 teams. Which is why we are not in the top 4 but better than most of the rest in PL

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But I think the problem as @mpickard2087 has already said is that Dembele and Sandro were not fit - Dembele with his persistent hip and Sandro his persistent knee problem. OK for a bench if they need to be brought on for the last 20/30 minutes but not ok for a whole match. I'm assuming that Paulhino was definitely out injured as he was not on the bench.

Putting a kid like Veljkovic on for a debut is not a nice thing to do. You would be right that we should have used the kids more in the easier Group stage EL matches so they might be ready for a match like this. But as we know that didn't happen.

So who else are the CM 2 or 3 ?

Whatever the selection of players, the same problems of a slow start (endemic this season) and individual errors ocurred allied with a general thought of 'I don't want to be here' from a number of players, and not the first time - seems to be a lack of leaders on the pitch which comes up particularly against the top 4 teams. Which is why we are not in the top 4 but better than most of the rest in PL

I do not buy this explanation at all. Dembele played 45 minutes last week. What is the point of putting someone on the bench if you can't use them ? It's poor selection in itself. What if we need to use him early in the game ?

Putting a kid in, away to Liverpool, is definitely not ideal, but again, Winks was on the bench, if he's not prepared to use him then he shouldn't be there.

But no-one is going to write off Veljkovic's career if he has a bad game making his debut away at Liverpool and I genuinely believe he would not have been less efficient than Sig and would have meant we could have played a 433 which would have been tactically more astute than not using him at all and playing a woefully inept tactical structure - which he did.

I'm sick of hearing excuses - from all our managers - for not using kids we are spending years and millions developing for exactly these occasions.

I would trust some kid busting at the bollocks to get his chance to play in his natural position over flotsam like Sigurdsson playing out of position any day.

Ledley King made his debut away at Anfield in a 3-2 defeat in 1999 - a time when they were far more superior to us. It didn't do his career any harm and we were a damn sight better that day for him playing.

 

[Spursidol]

I do not buy this explanation at all. Dembele played 45 minutes last week. What is the point of putting someone on the bench if you can't use them ? It's poor selection in itself. What if we need to use him early in the game ?

Putting a kid in, away to Liverpool, is definitely not ideal, but again, Winks was on the bench, if he's not prepared to use him then he shouldn't be there.

But no-one is going to write off Veljkovic's career if he has a bad game making his debut away at Liverpool and I genuinely believe he would not have been less efficient than Sig and would have meant we could have played a 433 which would have been tactically more astute than not using him at all and playing a woefully inept tactical structure - which he did.

I'm sick of hearing excuses - from all our managers - for not using kids we are spending years and millions developing for exactly these occasions.

I would trust some kid busting at the bollocks to get his chance to play in his natural position over flotsam like Sigurdsson playing out of position any day.

Ledley King made his debut away at Anfield in a 3-2 defeat in 1999 - a time when they were far more superior to us. It didn't do his career any harm and we were a damn sight better that day for him playing.

Dembele was clearly not on his game last week - and I suspect for the same reason. His hip has been a problem for parts of the season, and it appears to be a problem now - it needs managing just like Ledley's knee expect perhaps not so extreme.

So with Sandro strugggling, Dembele struggling, Capoue out injured and Paulhino apparantly out injured, it leaves any manager short.

I appreciate the thrust of your post - frustration.

However lets not get away from the constraints of fit (or unfit) CM's

...and don't get me on to our once apparant top class CB partnership - Kaboul half fit and Vertonghen clearly disinterested/unenthusiastic since early in the autumn

 

[SlunkSoma]

Dembele was clearly not on his game last week - and I suspect for the same reason. His hip has been a problem for parts of the season, and it appears to be a problem now - it needs managing just like Ledley's knee expect perhaps not so extreme.

So with Sandro strugggling, Dembele struggling, Capoue out injured and Paulhino apparantly out injured, it leaves any manager short.

I appreciate the thrust of your post - frustration.

However lets not get away from the constraints of fit (or unfit) CM's

...and don't get me on to our once apparant top class CB partnership - Kaboul half fit and Vertonghen clearly disinterested/unenthusiastic since early in the autumn

I think we should have an anaesthetist pitch side for Belgium so when they get knocked at the can knock him out and get on with the hip surgery he clearly needs. Might lose him for the first few months of the season but worth it in the long run.

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

Dembele was clearly not on his game last week - and I suspect for the same reason. His hip has been a problem for parts of the season, and it appears to be a problem now - it needs managing just like Ledley's knee expect perhaps not so extreme.

So with Sandro strugggling, Dembele struggling, Capoue out injured and Paulhino apparantly out injured, it leaves any manager short.

I appreciate the thrust of your post - frustration.

However lets not get away from the constraints of fit (or unfit) CM's

...and don't get me on to our once apparant top class CB partnership - Kaboul half fit and Vertonghen clearly disinterested/unenthusiastic since early in the autumn

If they're struggling to the point where they can't really play then they shouldn't be on the bench. If they weren't struggling that much, they should have started.

 

[Spursidol]

If they're struggling to the point where they can't really play then they shouldn't be on the bench. If they weren't struggling that much, they should have started.

As I said 30 mins from the bench not a problem.

So who else is fit to play ?

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

As I said 30 mins from the bench not a problem.

So who else is fit to play ?

Doesn't make sense. Give them the first half then take them off. Don't bring them on when we're losing when they have to work even harder.

Start with your strongest whenever possible, and if they were on the bench then it was entirely possible.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

As I said 30 mins from the bench not a problem.

So who else is fit to play ?

Eriksen built his reputation as a central midfielder in the traditional Dutch 433. If the only option really was Sig and Bentaleb then putting Eriksen in the middle was a must than any half decent coach would see. Not stick him on the left and have Chadli playing off Soldado. Massive error.

 

[beats1]

I would of played three in the middle....Sandro, Bentaleb, Eriksen......Dembele, Soldado, Chadli

Sandro and Dembele weren't fit but put on the bench because there was no one else and required a injection to come on

 

[beats1]

Doesn't make sense. Give them the first half then take them off. Don't bring them on when we're losing when they have to work even harder.

Start with your strongest whenever possible, and if they were on the bench then it was entirely possible.

They weren't fit to start and required an injection to come on, if they start with an injection and play longer than they should they can fuck their careers. Take it from someone who spends alot of time in Physiotherapy and has been working there for past couple of weeks.

As SI said there wasn't anybody else, Winks, Lamieras and etc aren't ready. Though Veljkovic may be

 

[Cheltenham Spur]

Holtby could have done a job......oh wait.

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

They weren't fit to start and required an injection to come on, if they start with an injection and play longer than they should they can fuck their careers. Take it from someone who spends alot of time in Physiotherapy and has been working there for past couple of weeks.

As SI said there wasn't anybody else, Winks, Lamieras and etc aren't ready. Though Veljkovic may be

And if they start on the bench and someone gets injured after 5 minutes and they have to come on? That's what the bench is for. What's the point in having a guy on the bench who can only manage 30 minutes?

 

[TheGreenLily]

This is what we should have played at Anfield

Paulinho over dembele and bentaleb IMO, but yeah... I agree with the rest, much more balanced than the shite TS put out.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Paulinho over dembele and bentaleb IMO, but yeah... I agree with the rest, much more balanced than the shite TS put out.

Paulinho wasn't on the bench though so must have been more injured than Dembele and Sandro.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Paulinho wasn't on the bench though so must have been more injured than Dembele and Sandro.

Who know's with TS, but I haven't heard that Paulinho was injured.

Unless someone else knows otherwise.

 

[Mr Pink]

Sandro and Dembele weren't fit but put on the bench because there was no one else and required a injection to come on

Not convinced of that myself!