Should AVB be sacked if he doesn't get top four?

[Samson]

You're thinking of 2004-2005. Carrick played virtually every game in 2005-06.

Yes, there's a huge gulf in quality when you compare that line-up to today's. Only King would be a nailed-on first choice now. However, I don't think there's too much need to worry that they won't gel quite quickly just because they're far better players.

Carrick would walk back in to the team, still.

 

[Mullers]

stupid article......this is a long term project FFS.....tripe asshat bullshit from a moronic journalist

You have your loyal spurs hat on, but many people who don't have any affiliation with the club will be saying the same as Savage.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Carrick would walk back in to the team, still.

Not with our midfield now I don't think.

 

[Mullers]

Carrick would walk back in to the team, still.

In place of who?

 

[Samson]

In place of who?

Capoue/Sandro.

 

[tiger666]

Capoue/Sandro.

 

[Samson]

Not with our midfield now I don't think.

Lynchpin for team that won the title by 12 points or Capoue with 2 Premiership games under his belt? Let's be sensible.

 

[Samson]

So you have a player that has won 5 league titles, been first choice at Man Utd for 7 seasons, and played in the CL final 3 times? And you have Capoue with 1 start outside France and Sandro who was behind Parker not so long ago?

I bet you're going to tell me you'd rather have Zokora in a minute.

 

[Mullers]

Capoue/Sandro.

Ok, I strongly disagree with you though, I think if those guys were English they would be automatic selections for the England squad.

 

[Shadydan]

Well it's not as easy as saying Carrick would walk back into the team at the expense of Capoue/Sandro because he's a different player to those players. Having said that don't act like he isn't good enough to start for Spurs because he is, absolutely fantastic player.

 

[dannythomas]

You're thinking of 2004-2005. Carrick played virtually every game in 2005-06.

Yes, there's a huge gulf in quality when you compare that line-up to today's. Only King would be a nailed-on first choice now. However, I don't think there's too much need to worry that they won't gel quite quickly just because they're far better players.

Ok I stand corrected. My memory is not what it was ! But you could make a similar comparison to 2004-5 where we brought in Robinon, Edman, Naybet, Pamarot, Mendes, Atouba, Ziegler , Davis and Carrick. I looked it up this time ! A net spend for the season of $13m after adding Reid and Dawson in January . We ended up failing to reach the UEFA cup. Again a huge difference in quality of players to now but that was actually a bigger investment than the 2005-6 Lasagna Gate season and you could argue that it took 2 seasons for that investment to work.

 

[mattstev2000]

Could some who does think he should be sacked if we dont make top 4 explain to me why the amount of money we've spent somehow makes them forget about the other 4 or 5 teams going for the top 4. You know, like man u who walked the league at a canter last year, man city who make our spending look paltry, chelsea likewise (and who have their most successful manager ever back in charge) or the arse who've qualified for the cl 16 seasons in a row and are likely to spend in the next few days?

Why do they think that selling one of the best players in the world and using that money to overhaul the squad somehow guaratees we should be top 4 ahead of any the usual suspects?

Will we be top 4? I think/hope so. Should it be looked on as a sackable failure if we don't because we've spent a bit of cash? Of course not, that's dopey.

 

[SpurSince57]

Ok I stand corrected. My memory is not what it was ! But you could make a similar comparison to 2004-5 where we brought in Robinon, Edman, Naybet, Pamarot, Mendes, Atouba, Ziegler , Davis and Carrick. I looked it up this time ! A net spend for the season of $13m after adding Reid and Dawson in January . We ended up failing to reach the UEFA cup. Again a huge difference in quality of players to now but that was actually a bigger investment than the 2005-6 Lasagna Gate season and you could argue that it took 2 seasons for that investment to work.

You could, but of those players you list only Robbo, Carrick and Dawson played a significant part the following season: Edman and Atouba were gone in summer 05, Pamarot, Mendes and Davis went in January, Naybet was released in May and Ziegler spent half the season on loan at Wigan and was then sold. Reid only made about a dozen appearances. You're right, it was a bigger investment than 05-06, but the latter was without doubt the most effective bang-per-buck window we've ever had.

Back to the OP, mattsev makes a very good point: however well we do, there's always the possibility that someone else—or four someone elses—will do better. Last season we equalled our third-best points total ever, way back in 1967, but Arsenal somehow managed to put together an even better run over the second half of the season and pipped us for that fourth spot.

With the expenditure this summer, I would expect us to better last season's points total, and if we fall well short of it questions are going to have to be asked. If we better it and still fail to make the CL, we just have to shrug our shoulders and say 'Well done' to the opposition.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

It would be harsh. Would it surprise me? Not really.

 

[SpurSince57]

So you have a player that has won 5 league titles, been first choice at Man Utd for 7 seasons, and played in the CL final 3 times? And you have Capoue with 1 start outside France and Sandro who was behind Parker not so long ago?

I bet you're going to tell me you'd rather have Zokora in a minute.

You also have a player who's only a year younger than Parker. The King of 2005-06 would certainly have been a first-choice CB in our current team, and so would the Davids of circa 2001; neither would make it now. The 2005-06 Carrick would certainly be in contention now, but he would not be the stand-out that he was back then.

 

[dannythomas]

You could, but of those players you list only Robbo, Carrick and Dawson played a significant part the following season: Edman and Atouba were gone in summer 05, Pamarot, Mendes and Davis went in January, Naybet was released in May and Ziegler spent half the season on loan at Wigan and was then sold. Reid only made about a dozen appearances. You're right, it was a bigger investment than 05-06, but the latter was without doubt the most effective bang-per-buck window we've ever had.

Back to the OP, mattsev makes a very good point: however well we do, there's always the possibility that someone else—or four someone elses—will do better. Last season we equalled our third-best points total ever, way back in 1967, but Arsenal somehow managed to put together an even better run over the second half of the season and pipped us for that fourth spot.

With the expenditure this summer, I would expect us to better last season's points total, and if we fall well short of it questions are going to have to be asked. If we better it and still fail to make the CL, we just have to shrug our shoulders and say 'Well done' to the opposition.

If say only 4 of the 7 new recruits prove to be successful and we sell for example Chadli, Chiriches and Erikson at the end of this season maybe we will end up 5 th again . We replace these players with 3 or 4 new ones and get 3rd or 4th next season wouldn't that be quite similar ( only better ) than what happened in 04-05 and 05-06 ? And wouldn't that be a success not a failure ?

My point is that this is a process , it may not bring overnight success but we should give it time. Don't forget the other side of the coin is that we are losing our best player and match winner from last season . We are doing great things this window ( I am sure we will have a great season) but sacking AVB if we don't make top 4 would be foolish. I am sure a lot of our new signings made the decision to join a club not yet in CL to a large extent because they like the idea of working with a young forward thinking coach like AVB. Levy should back him all the way just like he has done this summer.

 

[AW?]

What about if we finished mid table? That's not top four

 

[lazarus]

And yet eight years ago we had a pretty huge overhaul which clicked pretty much immediately. Lee, Stalteri, Davids, Jenas, Routledge/Lennon, Tainio, Mido (OK, he came the previous season but was then second fiddle to Kanoute); Dawson had only been about for a few months too, and then there was Reid. (Let's draw a discreet veil over poor Rasiak!) I think we're maybe too mindful of what happened five years ago.


To be honest, if we don't get top four questions are going to have to be asked. But I've got a fair bit of faith in AVB, whereas I had very little in Ramos.

Interesting you mention season 2005-2006, as I recall that as being the last time levy backed a manager with significant spend to overhaul our squad.

And as I also recall; he backed Jol that summer by spending big and he kept faith in him for 3 more seasons.

I would be surprised if Levy give AVB the chop, unless things end really badly. Which they wont.

I too have faith in AVB to achieve truly great things for this club, which I didnt have in Jol.

As some may recall; I was more than happy to see Jol given the chop, as while he had stabilised us as a top 5 side; he clearly lacked what it took to beat the top 4. He was unable to overwhelm their superiority in player quality, with superiority in tactical nous and flexibility.

Levy realised this and gave him the chop.

Ramos was Levy's attempt at bringing in a tactically astute manager, who could achieve results with what was the fifth best squad in the league.

Unfortunately circumstances, and Spurs fan's reticence in supporting him, cost him his job.

Redknapp, I must admit, surprised me in his tactical and man management skills. However he was always clearly just a stop gap for Levy, while he waited for the right kind of manager to take us to the next level. Hence why Levy never really spent big with Redknapp.

AVB is Levy's (and Lewis') man. They have faith in him, and his performance last season has reassured them (and me) that he's the manager with that spark of tactical genius, that would allow us to unlock the stranglehold of the teams above us with superior finances and/or squads.

The meeting of Spurs & AVB as been something akin to the birth of a galaxy, all factors aligned perfectly.

So even if AVB doesn't achieve great things with us; we will improve. And I suspect Levy will just bring someone else in who'll do a job after letting AVB see out his contract.

I would rather AVB won things with us and stayed for 5 years; but I suspect this wont happen. He may extend his contract for an additional year, but that's about it. He plans to win everything he can with us in a 2-3 year window and then leave when he's re-established himself as THE hot property in world football coaching.

 

[Samson]

You also have a player who's only a year younger than Parker. The King of 2005-06 would certainly have been a first-choice CB in our current team, and so would the Davids of circa 2001; neither would make it now. The 2005-06 Carrick would certainly be in contention now, but he would not be the stand-out that he was back then.

I think Carrick would be first choice for us if quality was the only consideration. Keano was also magnificent in the second half of that season.

 

[HodisGawd]

Given that we'll sell Bale, we haven't actually spent that much net - we have just reconfigured the team. I don't understand how people say we've spent a lot when we're losing a world class player. So no, AvB shouldn't be sacked if we don't get fourth.