Some Perspective I Guess?

[cliff jones]

Had much the same thought last night. While Poch certainly needs to take a very hard look at himself, both Liverpool in the 1970s (Red Star Belgrade absolutely cleaned their clock one year, which prompted a huge rethink in the Boot Room) and Man U under Ferguson (remember Rotor Volgograd or whatever they were called?) took years to get it right in Europe.

Last night was desperately disappointing. But it will only be a waste of time and optimism if lessons aren't learned from it.

thanks for posting this, I think most of us fighting back the disappointment tried to look at the positives. We are hardly the first, the defeats we suffered were all close with only last night leaving a feeling of being comprehensively outplayed. The other defeats saw us create our own problems and chances of our own. And key injuries took their toll.

I've decide to go against the Russians but I'll leave the boy at home in the warm. Be surprised if it's half full though.

 

[double0]

I am fucking infuriated with Pochettino over this. This is the crown jewel of club competition. We did not have a difficult group. We did not play our strongest XI in any of the games and instead rotatated for them. You just do not do that. We've fought so hard to get back into this competition only for the manager to treat it like this then he goes on blaming the squad and not himself? Are you kidding me!?!

I would argue the crown jewel is the premier league.


Seriously what competition would you prefer to win?

 

[DIEHARD]

We can't expect the team with an average age of twenty two or whatever to have the right mentality to cope with the PL and CL. If you look to Arsenal (an i know we would rather not) they brought in two or three quality signings (Ozil being the biggest) with experience at the highest level and who possessed the right mentality.

We on the other hand spent money hand over fist on more youngsters without the required experience, mental strength or any leadership experience worth a shit. Our last venture in the CL we had the likes of Gallas, Defoe, Modric as well as Keane, Crouch, Dawson, King and Kranjcar to name but a few with bags of experience.

The mentality is to take it seriously, the mentality I'm talking about is the type that you get when you worked so hard and all season to achieve something and when you're there you don't let go easily.

We are a youngish squad but they do have experience, half of them played in the euros and other tournaments etc so they do have some experience. There is no difference between playing man city and playing Monaco...

I just hope this embarrassment is a kick up the ass of everyone from top to bottom.

 

[Lighty64]

I think the last time we were in the CL we fielded pretty much our strongest side bar injuries or suspension, then went again the next game in the PL. I have no stats on this so just guessing?

It's pointless qualifying then playing a weakened side (unless we had qualifies already). The chances of qualifying are slim when you consider the financial might of Citeh, Liverpool, Chel$ea and Yanited. I would have thought that we would have thrown all our best resources at this competition. If not then why blow 60 million on Wanyama, Janssen, GKN and God forbid Sissoko?

Perhaps we don't have the necessary experience and quality, but thats no excuse for not fielding a strong side and showing the rest of Europe that we mean business.

Monaco (h) we played our strongest available XI, Rose missed out due to injury

CSKA (a) Rose was still injured, Kane Dier & Dembele was injured, Walker was on the bench possibly with Man C in mind

BL (a) Kane, Toby out injured, Walker not in the squad, though I'm sure he took a knock v WBA

BL (h) Kane, Toby and Lamela out injured, Rose on the bench most probably with Arscum in mind

Monaco (a) Toby and Lamela out injured, Jan on the bench definitely with Chelsea in mind as we have no fit left backs

so probably the last 2 games he could of played 1 player different to strengthen the team, but due to injuries and Rose suspended and Davies injured, he decided not to risk Jan. on the 3 total occasions he could of field his strongest team, as noted all above, look at the opponent that followed.

Poch has admitted we need a stronger squad to be able to compete, so he got it wrong wanting to work with a small squad, but it's not as if we really over rotated our team, we are just a young group that have reached the CL possibly a year or 2 too early, and beaten by 2 teams that have plenty of experience in the comp.

 

[DCSPUR]

Stolen post from another Spurs fan website, a perspective that perhaps we should learn from:


For reference, the only English side, so far, to have not been eliminated from the Champions League in the group stages in one of their first two appearances are Chelsea.

All of the following teams were eliminated at this stage once in their first two appearances:

Manchester United
Newcastle United
Leeds United
Liverpool

The following team was eliminated at this stage in their only appearance:

Blackburn Rovers

The following team was eliminated at this stage in BOTH their first two appearances:

Woolwich

You doom and gloomers try to pretend we're different to those sides and we have some god given right to get through a group, but we aren't. Just like the clubs mentioned above when they first qualified, we're vastly inexperienced at this level currently and need consistent qualification to learn at this level and become stalwarts. In fact, most were stronger and better resourced than we are currently and not going through widespread changes throughout the club.

For further reference, when Woolwich used Wembley they were knocked out at the group stages both times. So Wembley is obviously a major issue. It isn't home and it never will be.

Even when you become a stalwart of the competition there is no guarantee. The following teams have been knocked out at the group stages in the last six years:

Juventus
Atletico
Liverpool (twice)
Manchester City
Manchester United (twice)
Chelsea
Porto (twice)

The fact of the matter is we're walking a well trodden path with the Champions League, a path trodden by far bigger clubs than us, a path that is never going to be easy and will have more failure than glory. Like nearly every other club has experienced. We've experienced both in our two forays in this competition and I'd suggest we'll learn more from this failure than the previous ''success'' of a QF run culminating in a Real Madrid tie.

We aren't going to be some anomaly like Chelsea who bought their way to success and are seen as the runt of the elite.

Give the guys a fucking break with your negative, entitled bullshit. The group isn't easy, none at this level are. To think that is to only showcase your arrogance.

Hopefully we're back here next year, one year older and wiser.

Have to say that this is one of the most balanced and constructive posts i've seen in a long time - what are you doing here?

 

[DCSPUR]

I won't lie i am bummed out about getting knocked out of the CL but i am even more convinced that our early exit in the competition is a symptom of an underlying issue. We have looked devoid of energy and creativity, sure we've had injuries but players have looked really disinterested in playing (bar man city/stoke). It is still early days but i am hoping that
1) We give the EL a hard pass
2) Allow Poch, the staff and the squad to really sit down and analyze our entire CL campaign and learn from it.
3) Use the full week of prep to focus on improving the fitness and form of the players.

i like a lot of what you post which is why this puzzles me a tad. Surely the injuries, suspensions and the fact that we have a lot of young players who had no physical or mental break are massive factors. Considering all of this i am very, very happy with our league efforts. While i am sad about CL i am trying to be understanding - Walker was rested because Poch (even last year) doesn't think he and Danny should play twice in a week...shame that Trip has regressed defensively this season. And the Jan decision was a rational one - what if he had picked up an injury and had been out for a few weeks?

 

[Lighty64]

Have to say that this is one of the most balanced and constructive posts i've seen in a long time - what are you doing here?

he stole it from another forum

 

[Lighty64]

i like a lot of what you post which is why this puzzles me a tad. Surely the injuries, suspensions and the fact that we have a lot of young players who had no physical or mental break are massive factors. Considering all of this i am very, very happy with our league efforts. While i am sad about CL i am trying to be understanding - Walker was rested because Poch (even last year) doesn't think he and Danny should play twice in a week...shame that Trip has regressed defensively this season. And the Jan decision was a rational one - what if he had picked up an injury and had been out for a few weeks?

we would of faced Chelsea with no LB, been pretty weak at the back full stop, no Toby, Jan or Danny, and facing a team we need not going 7pts clear of us already

 

[DCSPUR]

and for those who have been complaining about the Wembley move consider that the alternative would have been to stop working on the new stadium (from the Guardian):
Uefa has deemed the club’s traditional home to be unfit to stage Champions League ties “owing to the impact on access, capacity and rights delivery of the construction work”.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Have to say that this is one of the most balanced and constructive posts i've seen in a long time - what are you doing here?

I stole that from another site, thought is was a well balanced, unbiased and as far as i can see factual post.

 

[Crash]

Good article spoilt by the 12 year old rant at the end. I agree with looking at it in relation to how other English teams have faired in recent years.

BUT- Stats are all very good but it's the manner in which we went out.

If we went out playing great football we'd be lamenting the fact we're out but not at how the team has played. We'd be saying we were unlucky and look forward to the next game. As it is we were Goddamn awful and will be punished by an inform Chelsea side who will love to beat us after last season and rub it in our faces.

So please no more stats let's just hope they pull their finger out and show us some heart so we can respect them

 

[TaoistMonkey]

secret stuff

He's on your side, div

 

[Metalhead]

I am fucking infuriated with Pochettino over this. This is the crown jewel of club competition. We did not have a difficult group. We did not play our strongest XI in any of the games and instead rotatated for them. You just do not do that. We've fought so hard to get back into this competition only for the manager to treat it like this then he goes on blaming the squad and not himself? Are you kidding me!?!

Yes, you want Poch sacked.....we get it.

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

He's on your side, div

i was going to say, but my head just hurts at the thought of trying to explain it..

 

[Kiedis]

The frustrating thing is that we know that the team is better than they managed to show. It's not like we've been exposed by the "European elite". The only team that has looked genuinely good against us was Monaco this week.

 

[mil1lion]

I do agree, but we had a more balanced side, older and with three standout players. Where we missed the boat (not unlike the Redknapp team after we qualified) was to add quality. We seem to get to the land of milk and honey then Levy goes and buys a sieve rather than a fucking bowl.

I am o.k. with looking to bring youth through our system or buying good young prospects, but fuck me do we need some quality and experience as well. Monaco showed a perfect mix of that and that is a lesson that i hope Levy has learned this past two seasons.

I think we should have been fine with the squad we have though. I really felt that we would perform in the Champions League with this young hungry squad. I understand the experience factor but we do have experience in Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker and Dembele. We just didn't seem to play with the same freedom and confidence we showed in our last campaign.

The whole experience just seemed to feel flat this time around. The first time in CL felt extra special. There seemed to be less atmosphere in this campaign. It has felt like the Europa League to me. I watched the Barca game at Celtic last night and the atmosphere was amazing, it felt like a CL game. We tried to create that feeling at Wembley but it just didn't work. Hopefully we can generate that special feeling at the new ground.

 

[Kilkenny Cat]

thanks for posting this, I think most of us fighting back the disappointment tried to look at the positives. We are hardly the first, the defeats we suffered were all close with only last night leaving a feeling of being comprehensively outplayed. The other defeats saw us create our own problems and chances of our own. And key injuries took their toll.

I've decide to go against the Russians but I'll leave the boy at home in the warm. Be surprised if it's half full though.

Ha, glad it helped raise your spirits a bit. And thanks. I didn't add what's going to be a plus for me: even with the fall of sterling against the euro, coming over from Ireland for three or four days in London the week of the CSKA match would not have been cheap. So a bullet dodged for me. Although I'd happily have done it had there been something at stake.

Like I said, as long as Pochettino is prepared to learn the lessons it won't have been an entirely wasted experience.

 

[Gb160]

Yes, you want Poch sacked.....we get it.

Contrived, over the top, attention seeking at its finest.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I think we should have been fine with the squad we have though. I really felt that we would perform in the Champions League with this young hungry squad. I understand the experience factor but we do have experience in Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker and Dembele. We just didn't seem to play with the same freedom and confidence we showed in our last campaign.

The whole experience just seemed to feel flat this time around. The first time in CL felt extra special. There seemed to be less atmosphere in this campaign. It has felt like the Europa League to me. I watched the Barca game at Celtic last night and the atmosphere was amazing, it felt like a CL game. We tried to create that feeling at Wembley but it just didn't work. Hopefully we can generate that special feeling at the new ground.

I think that we definitely need a mature player in the middle of the park who can Captain this side, provide an alternative to what we have and could be considered "World Class". Now we are out that is very unlikely to happen but i think we should have done that in the off season, after all there are enough players that are good enough to fill that requirement who are not involved in CL footie this season. In general i think we were "flat" as you say because the players froze on the night of the games, this was obviously down to lack of experience at this level. For Poch to say that we need more quality is wrong i think, what we needed (evan last season) was more experience. Perhaps he means the same thing?

 

[Shadydan]

He's on your side, div

Lol at Gaz deleting the post.