Spurs finances report 22/23 (swissramble writeup)

[Yid-ol]

It has gone up quite a lot but so have staff levels from previous year
Players & Football admin now 320 up from 292,
stadium operators & support staff now 413 up from 358 ,
retail staff down to 60 from 69 .
Total staff for 2023 is 793, for 2022 total was 719 so an increase of 74 , wage bill up approx £40 million.

Plus we are probably still paying Jose and Conte money for their wonderfully time here

Add on players we want to shift but can only loan out. Players sold after this report that were on high wages (kane, lloris, Dier and perisic.




We arnt in the best position we could be, as still paying off the stadium and above mentioned wages. But we arnt in a bad position also.
Until the stadium is paid off, or the new hotel/apartments if we need to put funds aside for that, we will and should be behind other teams, once this is all done, we should be right up there with most (a few exceptions of course). I just hope the FA keep punishing clubs who overspend and get their shit in order to execute these punishments in a better timely manner.

 

[McFlash]

Don’t look that good, does it?

6m a year for presiding over Nuno, Stellini, Spence, while putting up 40% of what the Arse owners have injected into their club, 1 league cup, Frazier Campbell Andy Booth… ah fck it, even I’m running out of energy digging him out.

At least we ain’t got the Glazers, won’t do a Leeds, won’t waste our time competing with SWFs, and don’t have owners with blood on our hands.

CL (Group Stage) Revenue, here we come! Start the bus…

Jesus Christ.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Plus we are probably still paying Jose and Conte money for their wonderfully time here

Add on players we want to shift but can only loan out. Players sold after this report that were on high wages (kane, lloris, Dier and perisic.




We arnt in the best position we could be, as still paying off the stadium and above mentioned wages. But we arnt in a bad position also.
Until the stadium is paid off, or the new hotel/apartments if we need to put funds aside for that, we will and should be behind other teams, once this is all done, we should be right up there with most (a few exceptions of course). I just hope the FA keep punishing clubs who overspend and get their shit in order to execute these punishments in a better timely manner.

Not sure Conte cost that much to pay off as he had a very short time on his contract left. From what I read by people who know more about football finances than I do , we are in a much stronger position financially than many PL clubs and through all the costs of stadium building have maintained a pretty strong squad of players despite all the negative comments you read.
If only all Spurs fans could be happy like this..

 

[ukdy]

Top work @tom4s Thanks!!

Don't suppose there's a chance of getting the article in a PDF format is there? If you can print from the browser and save as PDF?

I wanted to send to a mate who's not on here!

 

[HodisGawd]

We got through covid and emerged on the other side in an incredibly strong financial position compared to other clubs.

The fun is just starting.

And people still have a problem...

Football finances are important. They show the health of the club and its ability to push on and win trophies. Yet we have people saying they're not interested.

 

[Rage]

It's almost as if some people don't believe that football clubs are a business...

Please stop moaning about us being a well run, financially sustainable organisation. Stop benchmarking against those clubs around us that have or will soon have their comeuppance for breaching spending parameters or outright fraud. This desire for instant gratification in modern society is unedifying and, frankly, irresponsible and unrealistic. I for one would far prefer to support and be proud of a club and a team that does things the right way, within their means, and with a consistent view to incremental improvement through sustainable means.

 

[alfie103]

Now you’re confusing me again. Your argument is that we prioritize financial aspects too much over football aspects. That makes a certain amount of sense with the Davinson Sanchez sale in that it left us short of a CB. But doing that jeopardized qualifying for the Champions League, which you also think we prioritize over anything.

I can’t help but think you haven’t thought this through . In a week where that nice bloke manager specifically said that he doesn’t really care about qualifying for the CL this year because he’s looking at the long term, you’re complaining that we’re doing the opposite?

It hasn't got anything to with Davinson Sanchez. I think it is fairly clear over the recent years the club's main footballing priority is to finish 4th and 7th as this is the sweet spot where you can get the most revenue without having to put the extra investment into compete for the league (or leave the league entirely if it means more money). The cups are generally disregarded as these aren't nearly as profitable.

I am not really worried what is said by the manager to the press, it is all PR fluff. Ange might well want to aim to compete for the highest honours but, judging by recent history, Levy isn't going to put the extra investment required to do so and Ange will either have to put up with it or leave.

 

[alfie103]

It's almost as if some people don't believe that football clubs are a business...

Please stop moaning about us being a well run, financially sustainable organisation. Stop benchmarking against those clubs around us that have or will soon have their comeuppance for breaching spending parameters or outright fraud. This desire for instant gratification in modern society is unedifying and, frankly, irresponsible and unrealistic. I for one would far prefer to support and be proud of a club and a team that does things the right way, within their means, and with a consistent view to incremental improvement through sustainable means.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

 

[Rage]

Spoken like a true businessman.

Football clubs are a business. Ergo, running a football club requires people with skills who know how to run a business in order to ensure continued financial health and operation of said business.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you are advocating here? To ignore what makes any organisation functionally operate in order to achieve incredibly transient success only to then be dissolved because of financial mismanagement, resulting in the football club ceasing to exist?

I'm not a massive Levy fan, not even close, but I do understand that you actually need to know how to keep a company in existence through sound financial management.

 

[alfie103]

Football clubs are a business. Ergo, running a football club requires people with skills who know how to run a business in order to ensure continued financial health and operation of said business.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you are advocating here? To ignore what makes any organisation functionally operate in order to achieve incredibly transient success only to then be dissolved because of financial mismanagement, resulting in the football club ceasing to exist?

I'm not a massive Levy fan, not even close, but I do understand that you actually need to know how to keep a company in existence through sound financial management.

I expect the footballing success of the club should be the main priority of the football club. The financial running of the club should be used to support this aim, not the other way around.

I don't expect us to compete with the likes of Man City financially or spend like Chelsea have.

 

[alfie103]

To be perfectly honest mate, it sounds like you're annoyed for the sake of being annoyed and nothing is going to change that.
You've got it in for Levy and Enic and whatever they do won't be right by you.

You're arguing round in circles, shifting and ignoring anything that counters what you've got set in your mind to the stage that I'm not sure anyone really understands what you want?

You want a trophy? Don't we all but it's really not as easy as that, when you consider the football landscape of the past decade or so.
If you can't see that we've made good progress and have grown in stature recently, well them you're being blinded by nobody but yourself.

We're finally at the point where we can actually compete financially but if we suddenly start spunking cash like Chelsea did, that's not going to last very long.

Fair enough. I am personally not going to hold my breath that we will start to see new significantly increased levels of spending over the next few years or start taking the cup competitions seriously but I could (and probably will) be very wrong.

 

[robotsonic]

I expect the footballing success of the club should be the main priority of the football club. The financial running of the club should be used to support this aim, not the other way around.

Unfortunately no top football club in the world is run in that manner anymore. The only clubs that spend more than us on a given player have a better brand than us, and it's part of their brand to do so.

We're building our brand, like it or not, with the stadium and the concerts and the revenue streams. It's the reality of football these days. We would all want football to be the priority, but it isn't the only one, and it can't be if you want to be successful anymore. We're all disappointed with the way that the world is in that respect, but I suppose you either make the best with what you have to work with or just be constantly annoyed at the whole thing.

 

[McFlash]

Fair enough. I am personally not going to hold my breath that we will start to see new significantly increased levels of spending over the next few years or start taking the cup competitions seriously but I could (and probably will) be very wrong.

You're speaking about two different things here.
Taking the cups seriously and significant spending.

I think it's safe to say that we have spent significantly over the past few years, granted, we haven't spent massive money on one player but that's mainly because we've had an entire squad to rebuild and that one BIG signing doesn't guarantee success, it just appeases fans like you.
We've spent big money recently, we've just spread it out by spending it wisely.

And on the cup point, cup success comes from league success and the money that brings. You might hate the fact that top 4 is an aim for the club but in reality, that's the thing that provides us the finances to compete, along with the euro footie it brings.
How much would we earn for a league cup win and what would that do to push us forward?

Like it or not, modern football is about money and without that, you're just making up the numbers.

 

[leffe186]

Fair enough. I am personally not going to hold my breath that we will start to see new significantly increased levels of spending over the next few years or start taking the cup competitions seriously but I could (and probably will) be very wrong.

That’s kind of my point though. You’re already wrong. From the article:

“…Tottenham have clearly ramped up transfer spend with an outlay of £558m in the last four years, which is more than twice as much as the £265m in the preceding 4-year period.

The growth in net spend over the same period is even more dramatic, rising from £57m to £459m.”

Wage bill has also gone up more than twice as much (although some of this will be non-playing staff). Player amortisation has gone up. We are already seeing “significantly increased levels of spending”.

My belief is this. We have devoted a decade to building a stadium to generate enough revenue to allow us to compete at the highest level consistently and win things. Now we’re spending money to build a squad that will win things - or have a better chance of doing so. It’s not a happy-clappy mindless faith, it’s based on the accounts.

If you’re not fussed about Sanchez and if your argument that we’ve not significantly increased spending is demonstrably wrong then you’re left with “we don’t take the FA Cup and the League Cup seriously”. In the last six years of the League Cup we’ve been in the semis twice and the final once. We’ve definitely been on a poor run in the FA Cup, but that’s football. I think it will come around as the squad gets better and if we get some luck. If you don’t then that’s fine.

We haven’t won a cup because we’ve been bloody unlucky. Newcastle were the best team in England for at least a couple of years, spent a ton and didn’t win a thing. It happens. I thought the Fulham game was unfortunate timing as Ange was looking at the bigger picture, but Jeez, we lost on penalties away to Fulham. With close to a full team we lost 3-0 there in the league.

Also, man, I just don’t think it’s possible to deliberately spend just enough money to get 4th-7th. A couple of years ago Arsenal were 8th twice in a row. Chelsea and Man U have spent fortunes and both might struggle to get 4th-7th this year. The Premier League is hard.

 

[leffe186]

You're speaking about two different things here.
Taking the cups seriously and significant spending.

I think it's safe to say that we have spent significantly over the past few years, granted, we haven't spent massive money on one player but that's mainly because we've had an entire squad to rebuild and that one BIG signing doesn't guarantee success, it just appeases fans like you.
We've spent big money recently, we've just spread it out by spending it wisely.

And on the cup point, cup success comes from league success and the money that brings. You might hate the fact that top 4 is an aim for the club but in reality, that's the thing that provides us the finances to compete, along with the euro footie it brings.
How much would we earn for a league cup win and what would that do to push us forward?

Like it or not, modern football is about money and without that, you're just making up the numbers.

I do disagree to an extent. Money underpins thing but Cup success on its own does help too. I think the Ange stuff is more than just PR - I think he wants to win everything. If you build a squad that can win the League then they’re going to be able to win the Cups too - at least that’s what history tells us.

Since we won the FA Cup in 91, Arsenal have won it 9 times, Chelsea 7 times, Man U 5, Liverpool 4. Man City have won it twice, both in the last five years. Do we think they prioritised the Cups? Naah, they just had more money and better squads than anyone else.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I do disagree to an extent. Money underpins thing but Cup success on its own does help too. I think the Ange stuff is more than just PR - I think he wants to win everything. If you build a squad that can win the League then they’re going to be able to win the Cups too - at least that’s what history tells us.

Since we won the FA Cup in 91, Arsenal have won it 9 times, Chelsea 7 times, Man U 5, Liverpool 4. Man City have won it twice, both in the last five years. Do we think they prioritised the Cups? Naah, they just had more money and better squads than anyone else.

Do you not think more money and better squads are two sides of the same coin? We need a better squad, and therefore require more money.......how we get that money is a combination of commercial nouse and prioritising resource expenditure where it is most profitable.

Besides, in that same time period we have lost 5 cup finals, so it's not as if we haven't got there! If we'd won any of those, then perhaps your perception would be different.......or perhaps not! Some people see a field of grass, whereas others see a meadow.

 

[leffe186]

Do you not think more money and better squads are two sides of the same coin? We need a better squad, and therefore require more money.......how we get that money is a combination of commercial nouse and prioritising resource expenditure where it is most profitable.

Besides, in that same time period we have lost 5 cup finals, so it's not as if we haven't got there! If we'd won any of those, then perhaps your perception would be different.......or perhaps not! Some people see a field of grass, whereas others see a meadow.

Oh yeah I absolutely agree, that’s why I posted that. I just think a cup success - any cup success - does have its own value too. Such as not having to have the same silly arguments about “taking the cups seriously” any more, hopefully

 

[vegassd]

Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules

Am I right in thinking that the table here shows our profit for PSR purposes is £103m, but that includes £75m of leeway based on the Covid seasons? And that this £75m is not going to be applicable in the next accounting period?

I know many of us have the feeling that we are in a strong position when it comes to PSR, but is it perhaps not as rosy as all that? If we didn't have that Covid adjustment we are looking at £28m profit which isn't going to stretch particularly far.

I'm not being "doom and gloom" at all... just thinking it's more evidence that we shouldn't really be looking at the £100m type player. Perhaps another summer window of £150-200m spent in total.

And I do wish Levy would piss off with these £3m bonuses.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Am I right in thinking that the table here shows our profit for PSR purposes is £103m, but that includes £75m of leeway based on the Covid seasons? And that this £75m is not going to be applicable in the next accounting period?

I know many of us have the feeling that we are in a strong position when it comes to PSR, but is it perhaps not as rosy as all that? If we didn't have that Covid adjustment we are looking at £28m profit which isn't going to stretch particularly far.

I'm not being "doom and gloom" at all... just thinking it's more evidence that we shouldn't really be looking at the £100m type player. Perhaps another summer window of £150-200m spent in total.

And I do wish Levy would piss off with these £3m bonuses.

I'll try to be brief and simple - hold the cheeky comments

You're on the right lines, but not exactly - the P&S tables are notoriously difficult to lay in a manner that's comprehendable.

What it is saying is that (purely for P&S purposes) we have a profit of £103m (after allowable infrastructure deductions) across the 4 year period (it is effectively four years as Covid allows the averaging across the two covid years)...........that is against an allowable P&S loss of £105m - Effectively, we have £208m leeway in the P&S period up to June '23.

However, you are correct that year one will roll off (with it's £86m profit), reducing our P&S profit over the current period to £17m (£122m leeway) PLUS whatever the current year results will be.

It is difficult to see what the current year will look like just yet as, whilst we won't have the European income, we have also been quite active in the transfer market - the full profit on sale of Kane and Winks will be offset by a loss on Sanchez and the amortised element of the purchase of Porro, Vicario, Kulu, Veliz, Philips, Van de Ven, and Johnson (all of which happened after the balance sheet closed for 22/23 FY).

Hope that helps, though I fear I may have muddied the waters even more!

 

[vegassd]

I'll try to be brief and simple - hold the cheeky comments

You're on the right lines, but not exactly - the P&S tables are notoriously difficult to lay in a manner that's comprehendable.

What it is saying is that (purely for P&S purposes) we have a profit of £103m (after allowable infrastructure deductions) across the 4 year period (it is effectively four years as Covid allows the averaging across the two covid years)...........that is against an allowable P&S loss of £105m - Effectively, we have £208m leeway.

However, you are correct that year one will roll off (with it's £86m profit), reducing our P&S profit over the period to £17m (£122m leeway) PLUS whatever the current year results will be.

It is difficult to see what the current year will look like just yet as, whilst we won't have the European income, we have also been quite active in the transfer market - the full profit on sale of Kane and Winks will be offset by a loss on Sanchez and the amortised element of the purchase of Porro, Vicario, Kulu, Veliz, Philips, Van de Ven, and Johnson (all of which happened after the balance sheet closed for 22/23 FY).

Hope that helps, though I fear I may have muddied the waters even more!

Yep, that all makes sense. I wanted to make sure I wasn't wildly off with the reading of it!

As you say, the 23/24 results will be the big sale of Kane in amongst greater amortised contracts, plus the reduction of some high wages I would suppose. And what will be a roughly £65m sized hole in the books due to no Europe. Hard to know exactly how that will shake out, but it seems more like us being in a stable position rather than a powerhouse one.

Can't wait to see Chelsea get absolutely fucked by all this.