Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

[Spursidol]

Ray Lo (SO) match report

http://www.spursodyssey.com/1213/ngba130912.html

 

[ShelfSide18]

I mentioned this too, this was exactly what pleased me the most. Like you maybe, the last time I watched this level play 90 mins was against Arsenal in that semi a couple of years back and though you could see both teams had good players, the difference in coaching was plainly evident.

Last night there was a vast improvement. There always seemed to be a pass available - because they are clearly being coached to move more intelligently - and the players on the ball in every position were composed and always looking for that pass, from defence to attack. When the full backs bombed on, someone invariably covered.

I wouldn't mind Pritchard getting on our bench at all, looks to have exactly the type of attributes we are lacking, quick feet, head up, looking to make something happen in and around the box. I think kids like him scare defenders. I liked Dombaxe too. He got tagged a couple of times in the middle of the pitch, but that was more indicative of the ferocious pressing that Barca's midfield apply than his nonchalance, what I liked was he was also pressing and stealing the ball from their midfield, passed and moved as well, and kept going for 90 mins. I thought McQueen (the right back) also looked promising. Tenacious but very good on the ball, good going forward. For a guy playing out of position I thought Stewart looked decent too, clearly a CB who can play a bit. No body let themselves down last night IMO though, considering the opposition.

Yep, I saw them Vs Liverpool last season and I saw the same things, the difference being Liverpool were a bigger, stronger team than us and they used this to their advantage - other than Raheem Stirling, we were much better technically - but they pushed us around. A common theme in youth football, the more physically advanced teams often win out because they are bigger, stronger and faster - but they leave technique/tactical awareness behind. (hence why England will often beat Spain in nearly all age groups until they reach the top level.)

That coaching seems evident from the day I saw Arsenal play our lot off the park and perhaps Levy saw that and thought, 'we can do that', because it wouldn't surprise me at all - everything now seems to be set up for us to create an academy set up that can be held up alongside the best in Europe, like Barca, Ajax, Sporting Lisbon etc. We have the right ethos, that is clear from what I've read from the likes of Tim Sherwood, we have a plan and this new training complex is going to be great to further that vision. I'm honestly very positive about the long term future of the club, and we should all be applauding Levy for making this happen rather than whinge about him not throwing silly money about in the transfer window, because every penny he saves may just well be funding an academy, a long term project, that may well see us producing a generation of home grown players well into the future.

 

[Spursidol]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/14092012/58/barcelona-beat-tottenham-nextgen.html

Highlights from Eurosport

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Love how me pointing out a grammatical error in a retort to someone insulting my intelligence subsequently receives dumb ratings, irony.

 

[King of Otters]

Love how me pointing out a grammatical error in a retort to someone insulting my intelligence subsequently receives dumb ratings, irony.

I don't think it's just that post in particular but a serious of dubious posts in quick succession that incline people to think that you're, perhaps, a bit of a tool/'tard/moron.

No offence.

 

[Spursidol]

Amazing and impressive crowd last night, about 8,000 strong singing throughout the match, which must have impressed the players - and we hope that they all have the chance to get used to those sized crowds.

However its also worth while aying that for most of them, this would have been the biggest and noisiest venue they have ever played in and maybe that contributred to one or two 'below their best' performances.

Its all part of the learning and development experience - but none of the players played poorly last night or looked out of place.

COYS

 

[spursphil]

I went last night and it was a very enjoyable evening, the football was a joy to watch, and i can honestly say techically we were a match for the Barca team. Their academy is highly praised in the football world and rightly so, but we are not far behind.
A fantastic turnout by the 1882 section who sung for the shirt for 90 minutes, fantastic stuff.

 

[Reece]

Yea the lower corner of the west stand were absolute banter! I was in south and it was definitely Pritchard for me that stood out, great touch, good awareness, and one little pirouette and lay-off he did to win a free-kick outside the box was class. Was a shame to see Barca score the 2nd the way they did. Our defence didn't look too great but we were playing Barcelona!

 

[rabbikeane]

What were the ages of the Braca lads?
Might be interesting to do a player by player comparison.

Hate to be a downer, but in all fairness to Barcelona and their academy I think it should be pointed out that the absolute best (and more senior) of their youth players aren't taking part of the Nextgen series this year. They play for the B side at the second highest league level in Spain.

Some of them among the top top players of last season's NG tournament:
Rafa Alcantara - b.1993 (Brother of Thiago, games for the first team)
Gerard Deulofeu - b.1994 (has played for the first team)
Jean Marie Dongou - b.1995 (tournament top scorer last season)
Alejandro Grimaldo - b.1995

No doubt the team we faced will be one of the favourites to win though,
they are certainly one of the best academy teams in the world.
We should be proud of our kids, think we'll do well this year as well.
Could very well be we'll face them again at the later stage of the tournament.
Rather amazing how we've turned into one of the best academy teams in Europe,
considering where we were a few years back.
Shame we continue to struggle in the FA Youth cup where we face teams that out muscle us.

 

[eddiebailey]

Hate to be a downer, but in all fairness to Barcelona and their academy I think it should be pointed out that the absolute best (and more senior) of their youth players aren't taking part of the Nextgen series this year. They play for the B side at the second highest league level in Spain.

True, but then Harry Kane, an eligible overage player, is playing this season in the Premiership...

 

[StartingPrice]

Hate to be a downer, but in all fairness to Barcelona and their academy I think it should be pointed out that the absolute best (and more senior) of their youth players aren't taking part of the Nextgen series this year. They play for the B side at the second highest league level in Spain.

Some of them among the top top players of last season's NG tournament:
Rafa Alcantara - b.1993 (Brother of Thiago, games for the first team)
Gerard Deulofeu - b.1994 (has played for the first team)
Jean Marie Dongou - b.1995 (tournament top scorer last season)
Alejandro Grimaldo - b.1995

No doubt the team we faced will be one of the favourites to win though,
they are certainly one of the best academy teams in the world.
We should be proud of our kids, think we'll do well this year as well.
Could very well be we'll face them again at the later stage of the tournament.
Rather amazing how we've turned into one of the best academy teams in Europe,
considering where we were a few years back.
Shame we continue to struggle in the FA Youth cup where we face teams that out muscle us.

True, but then Harry Kane, an eligible overage player, is playing this season in the Premiership...

I think we have quite a few players that could have been in the NextGen squad.

 

[rabbikeane]

I think we have quite a few players that could have been in the NextGen squad.

Not that many, certainly not to improve on the others selected.
3 overage players can be used that are born in 1993,
so we could have Harry Kane.
Carroll, Smith, Caulker, Townsend, Bostock, Fredericks, Luongo, Parrett, Ceballos etc. are too old

 

[Adam456]

Our yoofs lost 0-2 to Barca

I blame AVB. He's had plenty of time to sort that out. And depleting our next gen sides by promoting the most promising over age ones to the first team squad. Mad as a hatter

 

[eddiebailey]

Not that many, certainly not to improve on the others selected.
3 overage players can be used that are born in 1993,

Barthram (who I think might be injured) and Ekong might usefully have shored up our defence, and there is another decent attacker in Munns, and the more experienced keepers Archer and Miles. I know Stewart and Pritchard are both overage, not sure who the third was last night.

Modeste and Gomelt would have strengthened us but of course are injured.

 

[StartingPrice]

Barthram (who I think might be injured) and Ekong might usefully have shored up our defence, and there is another decent attacker in Munns, and the more experienced keepers Archer and Miles. I know Stewart and Pritchard are both overage, not sure who the third was last night.

Modeste and Gomelt would have strengthened us but of course are injured.

Maybe Barca had players missing/allocated elsewhere, but the point is that we aren't just putting all out eggs into the NextGen baskeet with out young players and, between them, and injured younglings, we could have been slightly stronger.

 

[Spursidol]

Hate to be a downer, but in all fairness to Barcelona and their academy I think it should be pointed out that the absolute best (and more senior) of their youth players aren't taking part of the Nextgen series this year. They play for the B side at the second highest league level in Spain.

Some of them among the top top players of last season's NG tournament:
Rafa Alcantara - b.1993 (Brother of Thiago, games for the first team)
Gerard Deulofeu - b.1994 (has played for the first team)
Jean Marie Dongou - b.1995 (tournament top scorer last season)
Alejandro Grimaldo - b.1995

No doubt the team we faced will be one of the favourites to win though,
they are certainly one of the best academy teams in the world.
We should be proud of our kids, think we'll do well this year as well.
Could very well be we'll face them again at the later stage of the tournament.
Rather amazing how we've turned into one of the best academy teams in Europe,
considering where we were a few years back.
Shame we continue to struggle in the FA Youth cup where we face teams that out muscle us.

Fact of the matter is that Barcelona's academy has been considered one of the best of the world for many years - and regularly sign some of the best youngserts in the world.

Spurs Academy started a total rebuild in the few years after Aanesen gave Levy the blueprint which, in turn, resulted in the recriuitment of Alex Inglethorpe ( a successful young coach who ordinarily would have continued to be a 1st team coach but was persuaded into youth coaching - then an unusual career path), John McDermott as Head of Academy (previously senior in FA dealing with youth matters) and other good young coaches. Recruiting coaches to follow a different set of youth ideas (eg recuit technically good players instead of big players etc) will never be a fast thing to do, it takes time to introduce fundamental changes.

Similarly recruiting good youngsters takes time (and also depends on the reputation of the academy, so we started without much of a reputation - that has been built over the last 5 years) - I would suggest that Steven Caulker, Andros Townsend, Adam Smith etc represent the first year to come through the new revamped Academy in an education programme that has taken about 5 years since they were about 16. Spurs recruiting overseas players into the academy (ie scouring the world for good candidates) is even more in its infancy, I would suggest that last years recruitment of Veljkovic, Coulibaly, Gomelt, Bentalab is Spurs first focussed foray into that market.

So coming back to last night, I was pleased that Spurs now have a squad of youngsters capable of taking on the mighty Barcelona, who probably had a squad of 30 players capable of playing matched by Spurs maybe 15 players realistically capable of matching Barcelona.

If we could look at Spurs academy in 5 years time, I think we will have progressed more and have both more players and technically better players coming through - probably still with a high UK bias but also with a genuinely capable nucleus of players from round the world (which we have only just started to recruit).

Rome was not built in a day, and neither should we expect an all singing all dancing Spurs academy - it always was a 10 year project to get it up and running. Just delight in the progress made to date.

 

[StartingPrice]

...recruiting good youngsters takes time (and also depends on the reputation of the academy, so we started without much of a reputation - that has been built over the last 5 years) - I would suggest that Steven Caulker, Andros Townsend, Adam Smith etc represent the first year to come through the new revamped Academy in an education programme that has taken about 5 years since they were about 16.

This is the vital bit that I think folk are missing time after time. We were setting-out to completely overturn a whole footballing culture. What so many folk seem to think is that it was simply a case of hiring Arnesen and then within a year we would be working on 18 YOs brought up and through the old footballing culture, that we were consciously setting-out to overturn, and produce 1st team players with the technical ability to justify the policy.
Like SI, I think that the first age-group that we should look at for genuine signs of the efficacy of this policy, is the one coming into their twenties now. When you think that we already have the likes of Livermore, Caulker, Townsend, Smith, etc., sniffing around the first team, and these are not the culmination of the prophecy but the first fruits, and should yield more and better, over time, then it should put this work into perspective. Being able to hold your head up against Barca, even if you lose, is a seriously good think - IMVHO it would be better thansticking to the old culture, and producing a team of big bruisers who occasionally bully Barca to a victory, as that is such a false yardstick and leads to another generation of bumbling, fumbling, big, strong, technically inadequate players.

 

[eddiebailey]

I am not altogether convinced of the significance of the revamp of the academy - I seem to recall previous overhauls (and I am pretty sure that one of McDermott or Inglethorpe was recruited prior to Arnesen). Our pattern over the years has been of producing a decent crop, followed by a couple fallow years, followed by another decent crop, followed by a couple of fallow years; and I am not sure yet that that pattern has been altogether broken.

I do think that we have produced three successive sets of graduates with a real chance of a Premiership career: Townsend, Smith, Mason; Caulker, Carroll, Parrett; Kane, Pritchard, Fredericks. (I half suspect that this can be attributed to Moniz formative influence.) But I think it is yet to be demonstrated that the Academy, as opposed to the international scouting network, is keeping up that production line. And let's be clear that, with the possible exception of Caulker, no one has yet made it.

 

[StartingPrice]

I am not altogether convinced of the significance of the revamp of the academy - I seem to recall previous overhauls (and I am pretty sure that one of McDermott or Inglethorpe was recruited prior to Arnesen). Our pattern over the years has been of producing a decent crop, followed by a couple fallow years, followed by another decent crop, followed by a couple of fallow years; and I am not sure yet that that pattern has been altogether broken.

I do think that we have produced three successive sets of graduates with a real chance of a Premiership career: Townsend, Smith, Mason; Caulker, Carroll, Parrett; Kane, Pritchard, Fredericks. (I half suspect that this can be attributed to Moniz formative influence.) But I think it is yet to be demonstrated that the Academy, as opposed to the international scouting network, is keeping up that production line. And let's be clear that, with the possible exception of Caulker, no one has yet made it.

There is a difference between revamping and totally re-orienting, though, isn't there?

And how many do you think need to make it for it to be successful? I would suggest that one genuine first teamer and every couple of seasons, and a couple of squad players every two or three seasons, would be a good return, and, obviously, making some money on the rest by selling at a reasonably high level. By that reckoning, I would say that having Caulker and Livermore looking like genuine squad players, at least, along with Townsend and Smith being on the fringes, are very good early signs. And let's not forget players who we bought relatively young who have had some benefit form the set-up for younger players, like Walker, Naughton, and, dare I say, Bale.

 

[eddiebailey]

Yes but we have yet to produce one established first teamer from the re-vamped academy. Ten years ago we have had knocking at the first team door King, Young, Clemence and Thelwell (and bought in youngsters Doherty, Etheringtom Davies and Gardner); a few years later Marney, Kelly, Barnard and Yeates headed a promising crop; a year or two after that O'Hara, McKenna, the bizarrely underachieving Ifil and a fair few of Frankie's "ones for the future" purchases were sweeping all before them in the old reserve league. Even Livermore is not entirely an out-lier being roughly contemporaneous with Button, Archibald-Henville and the ill-fated Dixon and Davis.

I am playing devil's advocate a bit, because I am impressed with the current crop, but it is yet to be demonstrated that they are the real deal or that this fecundity is not an aberration.

Our academy was never as poor as some make out; I seem to recall that only United and Arsenal produce more professional footballers. If we bring through a homegrown youngster as a first team regular every few seasons that is a terrific result, but a lot depends on the manager to make that happen. A lot of talents have fallen by the wayside for lack of guidance and opportunities.