Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

[Spursidol]

Southampton must be up there. At the end of the day it's about producing players not results.

Yup, and theyv have not done badly producing Bale and Walcott (and indeed in past years Shearer, Le Tissier and of course Martin Chivers)i. Trying to find an easy bench mark is not overly easy - but one easy way (not necessarily accurate) is to look at the u21 Premier League table and say yup, Southampton are in the Elite u 21 table, currently 3rd, so they must be producing a reasonable number of good quality players to be there 'mixing it' with clubs whose financial resources are so much larger.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...mier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=ELITE

 

[Spursidol]

The additional financial point to be made is that the cost in wages of someone like Bostock is a fraction of that of someone like Bentley. Or, say, Dempsey. That saving really mounts up over the years. There is also the intangible advantage of the connection we forge with that player. I'm fairly confident that that played a part in Bale staying last year.

It's a peculiarity that one week we are bemoaning our reluctance to give youth a chance, then the next we bring a couple on for a few minutes and it's one of our strengths. I'd like to see one or two others given a few minutes, but at least Luongo (for example) can see Carroll and Livermore given some time and think "in a few weeks, that could be me."

Absolutely right. I guess however that this is one of the first times this season that in a PL game we have involved several Academy trained players in the same game - and at the same time our u 21's have got off to a fast start in the u21 Elite league allied with a good number of loands for young players. So I guess I'm in an optimistic mood now - but if the younger players are suddently not getting any time on the bench/pitch I'll winge again !

I'd love to see Luongo and Parrett (both of whom have been fairly solid players for the u21's this season), 2 of the most senior u21's not on loan getting some game time in PL or EL as well as Carroll.

 

[leffe186]

Cheers for the highlights. I like that our goal celebrations are very under-stated!

 

[StartingPrice]

Very true, we must remember that we are still at the formative stage of our 'grow yer own' policy, teams like Arsenal / Ajax / Barca / Sporting Lisbon / Munich have been doing this for years.

The point is that the environment is right to develop and nurture 'our' type of player, each year group will be at varying levels of talent but with that environment in place we will hopefully have a steady stream of youngsters moving through.

I think it's also worth saying that Barca will happily claim that Messi / Pique / Fabregas / Alba were academy products even though they didn't go all the way through La Masia, so if it's good enough for them I will happily call Bale / Lennon etc developed talent as we bought them at 17/18.

This.

The bold is the important bit to remember: Daniel Levy took a moratorium after the sacking of GHodd, while he investigated all things progress related and all things youth set-up related, and the end result of that was the appointing of Frank Arnesen to oversee our shift to a more continental style youth set-up.

My guess is that for this new methodology to take fullest effect, you would need kids of about 13 - 14 YO. An impact could be had on older lads, but these ones would grow up fully in the new system and get the fullest benefits from it. And that was 8 years ago (approx.). That would make this optimum age group 20 - 21 YO right now. In other words, the end product of this process* is visible for the first time - and, as has been pointed out last night, we ended the game with Livermore, Carroll and Caulker on the pitch.

*When I say end product of this process, however, I don't mean that the 20 - 21 YO age group is all we will see, rather they are the first fruits. What I mean is they are the first batch of the end-product to have grown up fully under the new set-up.

SS18 is also right that we should stop making these fine distinctions excluding players bought in young and then moulded, while giving clubs like Barca credit for producing players under exactly the same terms. We had four players starting last night (Caulker, Walker, Bale and lennon) who we have brought through the academy or acquired very young and moulded, and another two (Carroll and Livermore) who ended the game on the pitch. That is not bad going.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Don't understand why Kane (now sent on loan I know) previous couple of games and Obika last night weren't on our bench.

We had no striker if Adebayor went off.

 

[StartingPrice]

Southampton must be up there. At the end of the day it's about producing players not results.

Southampton were the first club to react to reports suggesting that a major problem with the English national team was the type of players being produced at youth level - big, strong athletes athletes with emphasis on winning rather than technical players with emphasis on developing. They began this process when they appointed a group of young Dutch coaches rather than focusing on another big name managerial appointment (I believe, after the failure of the Paul Sturrock regime - but I could be wrong on that). It is no surprise to me that Southampton are so advanced at youth level.

We were the first big club to make the same adjustments when we appointed Frank Arnesen.

 

[Spursidol]

Don't understand why Kane (now sent on loan I know) previous couple of games and Obika last night weren't on our bench.

We had no striker if Adebayor went off.

Obika is, of course, now on loan at Charlton. I agree re Kane in previous games.

I wonder if AVB has been coaching Spurs players into tyhe 460 formation - as seen over the weekend with Spurs u 21 v Arsenal. One of itys strengths, it seems to me, is that if played where the front 3 or 4 move round and each take it in turns to play the forward or striking role it makes it difficult for the opposition defence to know quite who to mark, and there is the danger of the defence being pulled out of positionn if the follow one player. The best solution could be to change from man marking to area/zonal marking - but it is veery easy for the 460 attacking side to attack down one side and overload a zonal defence.

The biggest problem for most English sides I would imagine is that nobody has prepared for it, so if Spurs play it for several games, the opposition will be ill prepared, which is kind of useful.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Obika is, of course, now on loan at Charlton. I agree re Kane in previous games.

I wonder if AVB has been coaching Spurs players into tyhe 460 formation - as seen over the weekend with Spurs u 21 v Arsenal. One of itys strengths, it seems to me, is that if played where the front 3 or 4 move round and each take it in turns to play the forward or striking role it makes it difficult for the opposition defence to know quite who to mark, and there is the danger of the defence being pulled out of positionn if the follow one player. The best solution could be to change from man marking to area/zonal marking - but it is veery easy for the 460 attacking side to attack down one side and overload a zonal defence.

The biggest problem for most English sides I would imagine is that nobody has prepared for it, so if Spurs play it for several games, the opposition will be ill prepared, which is kind of useful.

Didn't realise Obika had gone to Charlton on loan. That must have happened in the last couple of days, no ? Seems odd seeing as we only have Adebayor and and injured Defoe. If Adebayor got injured we'd have no recognised striker. Bizarre ?

What's Jack Munns normal position ?

 

[Spursidol]

Didn't realise Obika had gone to Charlton on loan. That must have happened in the last couple of days, no ? Seems odd seeing as we only have Adebayor and and injured Defoe. If Adebayor got injured we'd have no recognised striker. Bizarre ?

What's Jack Munns normal position ?

Midfield, but on Saturday, Munns, Parrett and severl others played the 460 formation with each taking on the striking role.

Munns is very short so not ideal foir a striking role, but he's very persistent, so in a 460 formation it works ell for him.

With Obika, Kane and Coulibaly on loan, the most experiemced striker left in the develoopment squad is Cameron Lancaster, but he is still recovering from his pre-season operation, which makes Shaq Coulthirst our most experienced fit young striker. But much as I like him as a prospect, he's only 18, and I cannot see him starting a first team game, and even sub appearances would be more to give him experience rather than expecting goals from him.

I wasn't joking about using a 460 formation in the first team - we used it when Adebayor was late back from ACON and I think we'll use it again this season.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Midfield, but on Saturday, Munns, Parrett and severl others played the 460 formation with each taking on the striking role.

Munns is very short so not ideal foir a striking role, but he's very persistent, so in a 460 formation it works ell for him.

With Obika, Kane and Coulibaly on loan, the most experiemced striker left in the develoopment squad is Cameron Lancaster, but he is still recovering from his pre-season operation, which makes Shaq Coulthirst our most experienced fit young striker. But much as I like him as a prospect, he's only 18, and I cannot see him starting a first team game, and even sub appearances would be more to give him experience rather than expecting goals from him.

I wasn't joking about using a 460 formation in the first team - we used it when Adebayor was late back from ACON and I think we'll use it again this season.

The "0" being Dempsey.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Spurs u 21 v ManU u 21 highlights - Spurs won 3-1

He scores when he wants
He scores when he wants
That Job Obika
and etc and so forth

 

[Spursidol]

He scores when he wants
He scores when he wants
That Job Obika
and etc and so forth

Strangely if you had been singing that song in the last year or so before this seasom got going, men in white coats would have been summoned to your house - and we would have been singing 'they're cominmg to take him away. ha., ha'

Its been an amnaziung turnround season for Jon Obika

 

[Flashspur]

Obika has talent, its been more the lack of application. He seems to be getting serious about it now.

 

[King of Otters]

Short article on our 'Mini-Bale'

Ireland’s ‘Mini-Bale’ on the rise

Wednesday, February 27, 2013
By John Fallon
Gareth Bale may be prised away from White Hart Lane but Spurs have a new edition ready — and he hails from Waterford.
Andre Villas-Boas has nicknamed their Irish U19 winger Kenny McEvoy ‘Mini-Bale’ due to his striking resemblance to the Welshman.

Just like Bale, Déise lad McEvoy possesses bundles of pace and an eye for goal. Evidence of why Villas-Boas rates McEvoy so highly was on view at Upton Park last month when he netted twice in the FA Youth Cup win over West Ham United. It’s no wonder the Portuguese is keen to see another player in the Bale mould being fast-tracked towards the first-team.

“The manager is always joking with me about been a Bale lookalike,” said the 18-year-old who Spurs snapped up from Waterford side Villa on a five-year contract in 2010.

“When I’m walking down the corridor and meet Gareth, the two of us sometimes stop, look at each other and break out laughing. He is a player I look up to because he’s fast and scores goals. They’re probably my main strengths too.”

Being labelled the new Bale is something out of his hands but McEvoy but has full control of his future direction.

Following that standout performance against the Hammers, he last week helped Spurs progress to the quarter-final of the European Next Gen Series by beating Paris St-Germain.

On the international front, McEvoy grabbed his first goal of the season for Paul Doolin’s Ireland U19s three weeks ago in the victory over the Czech Republic in Longford.

He said: “The Next Gen series experience is top-class as we play teams from across Europe like Barcelona.

“Spurs is a great club for a young player like myself to develop at. Learning from world-class players such as Bale can only help my career.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/irelands-mini-bale-on-the-rise-223941.html

 

[Spursidol]

Obika has talent, its been more the lack of application. He seems to be getting serious about it now.

Possibly

Was decent but not outstanding in the Academy. Put on a real spurt when Harry first arrived winning an award for most improved young player or similar, had a decent game or two in UEFA Cup in 'arry's first season before going on his first successful loan spell to Yeovil where his 4 goals in 9 games (or similar) probably kept them up - not bad for an 18 year old.

Problem is that for the next 2 or 3 seasons he didn't seem to take the next step up. But this season in u21's he's suddenlly got going again with 15 goals for u 21's and 5 goals for Spurs X1. Just hope he keeps scoring at Charlton

 

[nightgoat]

Jack Munns is tiny!

 

[RussJames]

Jack Munns is tiny!

In his latest inverview Jack admitted to spending a majority of his free time "representing the Lollipop Guild".

 

[RussJames]

Just posted this on the Loan watch forum in response to a comment on Carroll and Livermore, but figured it probably belongs on this forum.. still trying to figure this site out lol...

A bit random but... This is a list of our central midfielders in the Academy (U18) since the 05/06 season; in order from most appearances first, to least appearances last. The last two years have been a bit of a cluster funk with the inclusion of the NextGen Series and different structure being used for the U18s and U21s...

05/06 - Wells, Lewis, Livermore

06/07 - Livermore, Kasim, Wells, Parrett (Dean was U15 at the time..)

07/08 - Kasim, Parrett, Cox, Livermore

08/09 - Kasim, Parrrett, Bostock, Cox

09/10 - Nicholson, Parrett, Carroll, M'poku

10/11 - Dombaxe, Tapping, Carroll, Luongo (Veljkovic and Munns made just a couple appearances..)

11/12 - (first half of season) - Hawkings, Dombaxe, Munns - (second half of season) - Veljkovic, Lamerias, Bentaleb

(NextGen - Luongo, Dombaxe, Nicholson [Veljkovic at CB])

12/13 - Dombaxe, Onomah, Bentaleb, Lamerias

(NextGen - Veljkovic, Dombaxe, Bentaleb, Onomah)


Deano is one player I've always thought was a bit unlucky not to have gotten more time with the 1st team or at least better loans. He was a regular in our academy from 2007 to 2010, went on a couple loans of varying success, and has now returned to the club making more appearances with the U21s than any other player.. Seems like he's been with us forever.. I thought he'd have turned out a bit like O'hara but Dean hasn't made even a quarter of the amount of appearances that O'Hara made...

 

[Romulus]

apparently got a bit to big for his boots in the past. very talented player though

 

[Spursidol]

Just posted this on the Loan watch forum in response to a comment on Carroll and Livermore, but figured it probably belongs on this forum.. still trying to figure this site out lol...

A bit random but... This is a list of our central midfielders in the Academy (U18) since the 05/06 season; in order from most appearances first, to least appearances last. The last two years have been a bit of a cluster funk with the inclusion of the NextGen Series and different structure being used for the U18s and U21s...

05/06 - Wells, Lewis, Livermore

06/07 - Livermore, Kasim, Wells, Parrett (Dean was U15 at the time..)

07/08 - Kasim, Parrett, Cox, Livermore

08/09 - Kasim, Parrrett, Bostock, Cox

09/10 - Nicholson, Parrett, Carroll, M'poku

10/11 - Dombaxe, Tapping, Carroll, Luongo (Veljkovic and Munns made just a couple appearances..)

11/12 - (first half of season) - Hawkings, Dombaxe, Munns - (second half of season) - Veljkovic, Lamerias, Bentaleb

(NextGen - Luongo, Dombaxe, Nicholson [Veljkovic at CB])

12/13 - Dombaxe, Onomah, Bentaleb, Lamerias

(NextGen - Veljkovic, Dombaxe, Bentaleb, Onomah)


Deano is one player I've always thought was a bit unlucky not to have gotten more time with the 1st team or at least better loans. He was a regular in our academy from 2007 to 2010, went on a couple loans of varying success, and has now returned to the club making more appearances with the U21s than any other player.. Seems like he's been with us forever.. I thought he'd have turned out a bit like O'hara but Dean hasn't made even a quarter of the amount of appearances that O'Hara made...

Not sure what your point about the historic listing of CM's in the Academy is about - other than there have been quite a few of them. Some still with us whilst others have moved on.

Dean Parrett is still with us and playing for u21's - he's looked good there. If you look at the Arsenal u 21 video above there are several glimpses of Dean playing very well, he also had several good attempts at goal (not oin video) and was probably unlucky not to score - and if 2 had gone in, maybe he would have got the headlines rather than Jack Munns. As it was he got several mentions in reports as being one of Spurs best players on the field. He's had similar praise in several previous u21 matches too so it should be noticed that he's being consistently good.

However at the moment Spurs have a number of good CM's at that kind of level - Jake Livermore (=DM), Tom Carroll (= passer, maybe starting to loook like a Modric if he continues to develop), Massimo Luongo (= a Parker type but better going forward) with others at a younger level coming through so Dean Parrett (possibly more of a Dembele box to box player, good as a CM and AM) is having problems in getting enough recognition. Its tough competition.

Its also not helped that AVB has not played the youngsters much this season, and last season Parrett started the season late after getting injured playing for E u 20's in pre season (where he looked one of Englanbd's best players) and that meant he missed most of the Europa League campaign where otherwise HR might have given him game time.

But going back to your comparison with Jamie O'Hara - Jamie had little competitioin fior game time, Dean has and that's probably the biggest difference and why Jamie got game time and some of the current crop have not got the same number of games under their belt.

Going forward, not sure on past form if AVB is going to play many of the youngsters this season (although playing Livermore and Carroll off the bench in the last game for once may prove me wrong), so my best hope for Dean and several of his contempories (Obika, Mason, Smith, Luongo, et al) is that they play in a lot of pre-seasion games with the first team squad - and then see what happens.