Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

[Bus-Conductor]

OS
U21S WILL LEARN FROM LOSS - RAMSEY

Posted 05 March 2013 07:57am
Chris Ramsey said our Under-21s will 'learn lessons' from their first defeat of the Elite Group stage of the Barclays U21 Premier League.
The team's unbeaten run in this second phase of the competition came to an end with a 4-3 loss against Wolves at AFC Telford United FC on Monday night.

Goals from Shaq Coulthirst and Jack Munns looked to have put the lads in control but Wolves fired back with two goals in two minutes to level on the hour.

Dean Parrett restored the lead at 3-2 with 15 minutes remaining but the home side were not to be denied and won it with two goals in the final 10 minutes.

It was only the team's second defeat in the 17 matches in the Barclays U21 Premier League and they still sit top of the Elite Group with five wins, a draw and now one defeat in seven matches.

"We learned a few harsh lessons and sometimes a defeat highlights those lessons for you," said Chris, our Senior Professional Phase Coach.

"At times, you learn more from getting beaten, rather than pulling the game around. We had enough chances to do that but we still wouldn't have been happy with the performance.

"Ultimately, it was one of those midweek games that the lads have got to get used to, games where we want to see a consistency in their performances.

"Dean Parrett was outstanding throughout, making chances, surging runs, breaking up play in midfield and he always looked a threat.

"We've only had two defeats in 17 and there is always going to be an occasion where it doesn't go right. We all hope the players learn from it it and come back stronger against West Brom on Monday."


Parrett has been playing well all season, although stepping it up a couple of notches a bouple of months ago to be looking very good.

Glad that he's catching the coaches eye after one or two season's when he's not really shone in loans and lost the first half of last seasonn - although that was after starring for E u 20's.

Maybe his natural position on these performances is as an understudy for Dembele.

Also glad to see Coulthirst step up to the u21's. He's still very much learning but that's his second goal in 2 appearances for u21's (his 19th of the season - very good with 2 or 3 months still to go) which is a good trait to have as a striker. Noticeable possibly that all the reports mentioned him a lot in the first half but less so in the second half when he might well be tiring as he adjusts to playing at the higher level - but that physical endurance will come. By next season he will probably be a demonn at this level

Or Parker even.

 

[Spursidol]

Or Parker even.

Possibly, reason I said Dembele rather than Parker who is more of a DM than Dembele is that IMO whilst Parrett can play the DM role he is much more more creatiive (hence my saying he could be a sub for Bale, Holtby, Defow etc given our lack of creative/forward options). Dean Parrett is a good all round box to box midfieler who can cover DM but it would be wrong to categorise him as purely a DM, he has played no 10 for E u20's for example.

IMO a better 'like fior like' player from the development squad for Scott Parker is possibly Massino Luongo, but he is not currently re-producing the excellent form he showed at Ipswich earlier this year. .

 

[Lilbaz]

Cheers for all the info SI, doing a great job.

 

[Spursidol]

Tomorrow, Saturday 12.00, Wolves u18's v Spurs u 18's


Spurs have been starting to get into a bit of form in the last few weeks and lead their table on goal difference, despite introducing (as they regularly do at this time of year) some of the u 16's into the side, more of the Academy year 1 players are involved whilst the Academy 2nd Years incrreasingly stop playing for u 18's

Ray Lo ‏@RayLo18
Sorry no updates on the U-18 game. Final score was 2-1 to Spurs. Ball & Lameias in the first half

Luke McGee ‏@Lukemcgee1
Great win for us today Beating Wolves 2-1!

McGeee is our goalkeeper of course

Report to follow no doub, but a good away win for the u18's which should keep us on top of our table - our goal difference is about +10 compared to our nearest rivals, Sunderals (and Wolves !)

 

[Lilbaz]

Do like the fact that we move the youngsters up a year, early. That way they are not relying so much on their strength as for part of the season they are usually younger than the opposition.

 

[Spursidol]

As noted by a Wolves supporter :

James Fielden ‏@James_Fielden
@Comptonstars Ugo Ehiogu is there with Spurs' 16s.

Ugo Ehiogu has been reported several times as being an occasional part time coach for Spurs youth

 

[Knarf44]

The OS has a list (assuming it's up to date) of all of the Academy Staff:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/Academy/about-the-academy.page?

 

[Spursidol]

The OS has a list (assuming it's up to date) of all of the Academy Staff:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/Academy/about-the-academy.page?

Yup but no mention of Ugi Ehiogu - although several people have seen him at Spurs youngsters matches plus he did an interview where he said he sometimes did some coaching at Spurs.

 

[Spursidol]

OS :

Ruben Lameiras was on target again as our Under-18s beat Wolves 2-1 in the Barclays U18 Premier League on Saturday.
The midfielder scored what turned out to be the winner in first half injury time to make it three goals in his last five appearances for the Under-18s.

Dominic Ball opened the scoring in the 18th minute, Wolves levelled seven minutes later before Lameiras struck in the 46th minute.
We'll have the views of Academy Manager, John McDermott, later...


Spurs U18s: McGee, McEneff, Ball, Dombaxe, Ogilvie, Lesniak, Winks, Onomah (Michael-Percil, 69), Lameiras (Vincent-Young, 75), Oduwa (Zapata-Caicedo, 57), Akindayini.

Interesting line up - Connor Ogilvie is a good CB/LB but Dominic Ball, Laste Dombaxe and Aaron McEneff are all CM's playing as defenders (both Ball and Dombaxe have played as CB's before). Roman Michael-Percil and Kanr Vincent-Young who both came on as subs can play as defenders, so not sure if the team changed round when they came on or not.

 

[nidge]

Yup but no mention of Ugi Ehiogu - although several people have seen him at Spurs youngsters matches plus he did an interview where he said he sometimes did some coaching at Spurs.

I remember Ehiogu did an interview on Talksport a few weeks back and mentioned that he was at Spurs coaching the kids while gaining his coaching licenses.

 

[RussJames]

Spurs U18s: McGee, McEneff, Ball, Dombaxe, Ogilvie, Lesniak, Winks, Onomah (Michael-Percil, 69), Lameiras (Vincent-Young, 75), Oduwa (Zapata-Caicedo, 57), Akindayini.

Interesting line up - Connor Ogilvie is a good CB/LB but Dominic Ball, Laste Dombaxe and Aaron McEneff are all CM's playing as defenders (both Ball and Dombaxe have played as CB's before). Roman Michael-Percil and Kanr Vincent-Young who both came on as subs can play as defenders, so not sure if the team changed round when they came on or not.

It seems Ball was moved to CB at the start of the season as he has played all of his 19 matches for U18s and U19s this season in the center of defense. Dombaxe played his last 4 or 5 matches with the U18s at CB but I was surprised to even see him in the lineup today as he seemed to be just breaking into the U21 squad. He started in the 4-2 victory over Arsenal at CM and even came away with a goal, it was a penalty, but nonetheless, a goal. It seems they're trying to groom him into more of a central defensive midfielder. They've done the same thing with Veljkovic and Luongo who both are CM but have played a few games here and there at CB.

Don't know much about McEneff, but just checked out his twitter and it seems he move to CM when Vincent-Young came on later in the game...

1. Kevin McLaughlin ‏@kevymac77
   @amceneff What's this I'm hearing you played at RIGHT-BACK#utilityplayer

6 hrs​

Aaron McEneff ‏@amceneff
@kevymac77 played at right back for about 75 then went into midfield lad, enjoying my football

 

[SlickMongoose]

They've done the same thing with Veljkovic and Luongo who both are CM but have played a few games here and there at CB.

I thought Veljkovic was a CB?

 

[Spursidol]

It seems Ball was moved to CB at the start of the season as he has played all of his 19 matches for U18s and U19s this season in the center of defense. Dombaxe played his last 4 or 5 matches with the U18s at CB but I was surprised to even see him in the lineup today as he seemed to be just breaking into the U21 squad. He started in the 4-2 victory over Arsenal at CM and even came away with a goal, it was a penalty, but nonetheless, a goal. It seems they're trying to groom him into more of a central defensive midfielder. They've done the same thing with Veljkovic and Luongo who both are CM but have played a few games here and there at CB.

Don't know much about McEneff, but just checked out his twitter and it seems he move to CM when Vincent-Young came on later in the game...

1. Kevin McLaughlin ‏@kevymac77
   @amceneff What's this I'm hearing you played at RIGHT-BACK#utilityplayer

6 hrs​

Aaron McEneff ‏@amceneff
@kevymac77 played at right back for about 75 then went into midfield lad, enjoying my football

Dominic Ball was an acomplished CM at Watford before he moved to Spurs, and indeed for NI for whom he scored about 5 or 6 goals in one match earlier this season. For some reason Spurs seem incapable of recruitiing decent defenders intio the Academy (with a few exceptions of course) but have a passion foir midfieiders - so if you look, somethng like 50% of all the current academy are originally midfielders - and correspondingly there are fewer specialist defenders and strikers in particular.

This by the way has being going on foir siometime which is why Spurs had no available defenders in the development squad last season when Andros Townsend (a left winger) played as LB in the Europa League and Ryan Fredericks (a Right winger) played as RB. This seasoin Spurs brought in Zeki Fryers (LB/CB) and Grant Hall (CB) to paper over the problem at u 21 level.

So going back to the original point - Dominic Ball who looks a great CM is being retrained to being a CB (and so far he's looked much better as a CM than a CB) and equally Laste Dombaxe (who looked a great CM in NextGen Series last season) is looking like a less capable CB when he plays there. Aaron McEneff was being hailed as the next Roy Keane before he joined Spurs - probably not realistic - but maybe suggests he was trained as a CM.

Milos Veljkovic was played as a CM at FC Basle but all last season was played by Spurs as a CB - and looked devastaingly good. One of the standout performers at NextGen u 19 level for Spurs as a CB despite being only 16 at the time. He's looked half as good this season played as a CM.

Massimo Luongo dominated the midfield for Spurs in NextGen Series - u19 player of last season was probably between Alex Pritchard and Luongo. Luongo looked good as a CM (acording to Ipswich fans) earlier this seasion but seems tio be playing less well as a CB according to most Spurs youth watchers.

Now there is certainly a general point that at a young age it is good to experiment with younger players as to where their best positions are - however Spurs lack of defenders in the Academy suggests that they are forced to retrain good CM's to being average CB's. And that is not a good strategy - its one of the flaws in the current set up that needs addressing but seems tio have escaped. I have a strong suspician that the Academy believes that their objective is to produce the best players - whereas they need to refocus on producing the best players, but across all areas of the field. (and that is a very different strategy)

The position with strikers is equally poor - why else would Harry Kane, stilll 19, be the main hope coming out of the Academy and the oldest striker beimg 22 year old Jonathan Obika ? Correct we had almost no strkers in the intervening years !

As I have said before, I think our youth set up is very good and has started to produce potentially excellent players for Spurs. However I would also say that it could do a lot better in some areas - recruiting a balance of good players acrosss all positions would be a big step forward.

 

[Spursidol]

I thought Veljkovic was a CB?

See previous post :

Milos Veljkovic was played as a CM at FC Basle but all last season was played by Spurs as a CB - and looked devastaingly good. One of the standout performers at NextGen u 19 level for Spurs as a CB despite being only 16 at the time. He's looked half as good this season played as a CM.

 

[Spursidol]

Ray Lo (SO) usual detailed excellent report on Spurs u 18 win over Wolves u18's - busy man this weekend as I understand he's offf to Liverpool for the first team game and then covering the u21 game on Monday !

http://www.spursodyssey.com/1213/u18wo090313.html#.UTuhN1C3VTo.twitter

 

[knilly]

Spursidol, is that a conscious decision we've made to have youth players more comfortable on the ball and retrain them in a defensive or forward position rather than trying to improve the technical skills of a good defender or striker?

 

[Misfit]

Spursidol, is that a conscious decision we've made to have youth players more comfortable on the ball and retrain them in a defensive or forward position rather than trying to improve the technical skills of a good defender or striker?

Just about to ask that myself. Do we look for footballers first and then get them into more specific positions. At least until we're up and running ourselves. Using that as a cheeky shortcut perhaps until our really young players - 12 upwards - are old enough to come into the U-18 teams etc.

Would be a very smart thing to do. Many clubs, even still, seem intent on putting kids into certain positions from a young age and coaching them in that position for the next 6/7 yrs until they're nearing senior football. Which is good for us. The more technically average players the rest of the prem produce, the better.

 

[Spursidol]

Spursidol, is that a conscious decision we've made to have youth players more comfortable on the ball and retrain them in a defensive or forward position rather than trying to improve the technical skills of a good defender or striker?

In theory it could be - but that's putting all your 'eggs in one basket' that it can be done. It would make more sense to me to bring in at least half the defenders you need and then try to improve their technical skills whilst in parallel bring in good players and make them into good defenders....ie backing both horses.

The reason to have at least a minimum number of defenders in the academy is that players develop through coaching and then putting things into practice in a game.

If you have great attacking players but a bunch of players who might be decent footballers but lousy defenders (eg midfielders being trained how to be defenders) then yiou have a team without a solid base and the team will often concede goals and lose. That means that all the members of the team suffer by not playing well ultimately - and in tiournaments the team will be knocked out before it gets to the final. So by the age of 18/21 you have players who were good attacking players who have been relatively untested in youth tournaments and you hope to have trained decent deferenders (but that's unproven).

To give a practical example I asked Ray Lo at the last Milk Cup to ask Alex Inglethorpe why the Spurs team's results were not better - and he openly admitted that what was holding back the team was a lack of defenders !

If its a concious decision that Spurs have made.......we are still waiting to see if it will work to produce multiple good defenders.

Milos Veljknovic was playing as a CM for FC Basle and looked very good as a CB for the first year at Spurs, but that's the only major success we have had in changing a player to be a good defender recently. Dominic Ball has been caught out a few times as a CB - even though he's a good foottballer as a CM.

Ryan Fredericks (originally a RW) seems now to be a decent RB, but Andros Townsend (a LW) has never looked that comfortable as a LB - but is far more comfortable changing wings to be a RW. There are several other players who are RW/RB and LB/LW type players in the Academy - IMO largely because FB's these days are close to being old style wingers anyway (Walker for example is better going forward than defending).

So overall if its a policy its not showing signs of churning out lots of good CB's, only a few (nb. there will always be some good players capable of changing positions - one example being Jan Vertonghen who Jol at Ajax converted from a CM to a CB, and another being Ledley King playing as both a CB and CM at different stages of his career)

The sad fact is that Spurs youth are simply short of defenders.

 

[beats1]

It seems strange but swindon think they will be getting cebellos and parrett on loan, which seems strange since both have done well in U21's tbh

 

[Spursidol]

Tottenham Hotspur ‏@SpursOfficial
Our U-21's play West Brom today at 13:00 UK time. We'll be live tweeting the match, so stay tuned for updates this afternoon.


Wonder if Coulthirst will play following his surprise showing on the bench at Liverpool after Gallas dropped oiut ? This would be only his 3rd appearance for u21's so lots more experience at this level would be beneficial in the long term for him.