Match Threads Spurs vs West Ham - Match Thread

[rossdapep]

I still dont get some having a pop at Sissoko for the loss. For me theSissoko and Ndombele were in total control of the midfield up to the subs coming on .
You have a team 3'0 up and the manager decides to change the team I find it difficult in this case to blame the team for me Jose should have stuck with what was working after all we were up until the subs in cruise control.
If he made changes with Thursday in mind then he should have faith in our extended squad to manage the Europa League .
For me you make changes when someone is injured or someone is having a mare or you are losing and need to try something different .
Myself if he had left the team as it was we would have won . Right or wrong that is my thoughts on subs and in this match if there is blame to be apportioned then it lies as Jose's door .

I blame Sissoko for the absolutely piss poor attempt to stop Balbuena score. If Sissoko goes up with him and makes contact with Balbuena, he quite simply doesn't get a free hit at it and probably fails to get any precision or power on the header. That attitude led to the start of the collapse.

I'm now imagining Rodon jump with him and seeing that ball gamely fall to Lloris or go 20 yards away from our goal.

Some players clearly lost focus thinking with 8 mins to go the game was done. Sissoko was one of them.

 

[shelfboy68]

I don't think we are as weak as it's being made out. During restart, barring the Sheff Utd game, we were relatively sound.

I think if we come up against a team with a lot of threat we will negate it. But against weaker teams we may go for it.

We do have issues but we aren't brittle or disorganised, we just have moments of silly mistakes or lapses in concentration.

I'm pretty sure if Jose prepared the team to be super defensive and organised we would be solid, just like we were against Arsenal, Leicester last season.

I think he's trying to strike the perfect balance and on recent results where we've just hammered teams he's probably taken some of the shackles off as we've enough of a threat to do that. We would have done that to West Ham yesterday too had Bale's strike gone in or Sissoko had bothered to make an attempt to stop Balbuena.

To fold up like we did against a well beaten side makes grim reading, too many people got carried away with the thought we could win the league, but as we found out that is not possible until the weaknesses are sorted.

 

[Dannyspur]

There were barely seconds left before the full time whistle, and we still had two opportunities to avoid their equaliser but we fluffed them both.

Firstly, Aurier could have hit the ball, as far forward as he could , but he wanted a second touch which then resulted in a free free kick.

Secondly, Winks had the opportunity to kick the ball into row Z but then tried to be clever (not) by playing the ball which he lost control of.


If it was Kane or Dier , they would have smashed the ball as far away from our goal as possible and that would have allowed the seconds to trickle down.

Sorry but before winks got involved, Harry nodded the ball towards Lucas to play out when maybe he should have headed it out for a throw or further up the pitch. That led to wicks getting involved.

 

[Thanksandy]

I think he gave away the free kick in a dangerous area which was needless really. West Ham were only going to score through a free kick there, its our major weakness. I’m hoping the Welsh kid will help with that, you need a big lump willing to take a kick in the head in those situations if you can’t work out how to defend more intelligently.

It wasn't a foul by Aurier
Snogdrass fell over himself and the ref gave it as a foul, as I saw someone posted images of the incident online. Will try and find the link. Maybe he clipped him slightly, but was it enough for a free kick???

Everyone has a right to be angry, upset, frustrated etc, it was a disappointing result to drop two points, but let's move on now and not overreact, there is no future in the past. Okay it happenned against Newcastle, but that was different.
We have to make sure it doesn't hapoen again and with all the new players, it will get better. Unless people want us to sign another 7 players in the next window.

 

[Mr Pink]

To fold up like we did against a well beaten side makes grim reading, too many people got carried away with the thought we could win the league, but as we found out that is not possible until the weaknesses are sorted.

What made it so disappointing is that prior to the game I was thinking this game would be a real marker in terms of title talk off the back of the Man U game.

At half time I was buzzing thinking yes we've answered that question and more.

That end to the game was honestly heart breaking.

But its wide open and we're playing so well, you can't say we've no chance because of that crazy ten minutes, it was freakish really.

But Mourinho will make them learn from that.

 

[shelfboy68]

What made it so disappointing is that prior to the game I was thinking this game would be a real marker in terms of title talk off the back of the Man U game.

At half time I was buzzing thinking yes we've answered that question and more.

That end to the game was honestly heart breaking.

But its wide open and we're playing so well, you can't say we've no chance because of that crazy ten minutes, it was freakish really.

But Mourinho will make them learn from that.

I agree it's wide open but as found out when Leicester won it, we just couldn't rise to the occasion it seems whenever others slip up we do also.
I'm sure Jose is frustrated after yesterday's farce and the failure to beat Newcastle this would have put us in a strong position early on.

 

[slartibartfast]

Same last season. We had numerous opportunities to catch top 4 and regardless of who we were playing we blew it.
That said I still think its game on at present.

 

[sparx100]

The only game we've lost this season is with Toby and Dier and the back.

Yup against a team who are top of the league though. All 3 of our main centre backs have issues. I don't think any combination is better than the other if I am honest. I just think that perhaps in terms of tenacity and challenging for the ball Dier is probably the most aggressive.

 

[Trotter]

The only game we've lost this season is with Toby and Dier and the back.

And that is relevant point to the discussion for what must be the 20th time how ?
All that means is that was the only game we didn't score in, and we concede more on average per game when Sanchez plays than when he doesn't, because we only conceded 1 in the game you highlight, and have conceded 7 (average 1,75 pg) in the other 4 when he has played.
At least if you are trying to say something to back up your player, say something that doesn't actually backfire on him and you.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

Well, that's made me break my posting hiatus......

Really I want to question all those who were going 'amazing first half'. Get fucking real, it was a lethal opening first 15 mins, after that it was rubbish stuff. Even as the first half went on we were wide open, had often four stood up doing fuck all defensively, less than diligent in our application, and were giving West Ham encouragement they could grab some goals back. The second half was just more of the same but worse. All round fucking lazy stuff. And no one did anything about it.

Mourinho never got a grip either tbh, we were going through the motions and nothing changed from the sidelines, some subs happened (mainly as if they were scripted - Bale, Moura - whether necessary/needed/wise or not), we still went through the motions, eventually it got punished.

The goals were perfect examples of an hour plus of laziness and taking our eye off it. Sissoko just doesn't bother challenging with his man. The second I see everyone blaming Sanchez - more like Moura has been on the pitch 2 minutes and just doesn't bother to go back in with his man and leaves him to nobody and so they're at point blank range firing a ball across the face of goal. Ok the third is a wonder goal, but we see idiotic players giving away the ball and giving away dumb free kicks to invite more pressure. These were just a late punishment of stuff we'd been doing for most of the game by that point.

The ending might have been freak, plus Bale really should have wrapped it, but we got punished for as a collective doing nothing to tighten up and kept inviting West Ham to get back into the game, increasingly stopped playing, and eventually got a massive punch about the face for 75 minutes of relative shit.

In general everyone has been buzzing (mainly due to one result and transfer junkie cravings being fulfilled) but I don't particularly like what I have seen so far and find it really unconvincing still. Lethal on the fast transitions in a few phases of play, but really this is more Redknapp-esque chaos open bollocks football than anything else - which I never thought I'd say about a Mourinho team. We'll score plenty, but we look wide open to also get fucked a plenty whenever the opposition has the ball. Even against United the first 25 mins it was end to end chaos, where every pass for both teams got them through midfield and at the back four, until they spectacularly imploded. You might have some good days playing like this, and murder cannon fodder opposition, but I don't see it achieving much ultimately. We must tighten up, and must control games better.

Always great, thoughtful, considered posts.
Brilliant to have you back - even if it took a poor defensive performance.

 

[buckley]

This thread should be the called "the blame game " almost every goal thats scored could have been stopped if this or that player " could have " or "should have " sometimes you just have to say it took a worldy to beat us but for me I am confident we have only just started on a journey where we will improve in all parts of the pitch .We have a lot to look forward to that gives me confidence that bar injuries that have plagued us lately we will be winning something this year .

 

[spursfan77]

Still annoyed

 

[Mr Pink]

Still annoyed

Will be a tough week. Won't be over it until we smash Burnley lol

 

[slartibartfast]

Still annoyed

Just watched Motd2 and so am I.
Some stupid stupid mistakes there. Real schoolboy stuff.

 

[Mark_147]

And that is relevant point to the discussion for what must be the 20th time how ?
All that means is that was the only game we didn't score in, and we concede more on average per game when Sanchez plays than when he doesn't, because we only conceded 1 in the game you highlight, and have conceded 7 (average 1,75 pg) in the other 4 when he has played.
At least if you are trying to say something to back up your player, say something that doesn't actually backfire on him and you.

Doh he's played in all but one game and Dier has also played in all but one game so why not attribute goals conceded to him or would we have conceded less goals with Toby in the team. Maybe you should concentrate on shots on target like the Everton game you referenced which was lloris busiest game by far.

 

[Thanksandy]

At least nobody is saying this is boring, predictable and negative football.
Last season I saw criticism over the slow boring type of football, lack of creativity or any sense of style, lack of pace, lack of options on the bench, low percentage of possession and shots of goal etc.

This season we have fixed a lot of those issues, but now look even more suspect in defence, making lots of individual mistakes, weak at defending set pieces and at a times we need to be more clinical and not sit back.

Mourinho has his work cut out, but if we can tighten up in defence and manage ganes a bit better, we are not far off having a very good season. It's still early yet and I have put last night's game behind me and moving on from it.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Let's be honest we are a team that tends to do very stupid things at precisely the wrong time in games. We have been that way for many years and it is a mindset that seems to always creep back up just when we think we are turning a corner. Anyone remember the handball in the first min of the CL final that led to a penalty? It probably shouldn't have been given but again as a proper professional outfit you just don't give the opposition, referee or whoever the opportunity to mug you off which is precisely what happened that night in Madrid and again on Sunday night.

I can't be having any of this JM ballsed it up and should have tightened the team bollocks. Something Poch often said which I agree with is that sometimes, the game is nothing to do with tactics, team shape or instructions from the sideline. It is about a group of 11 players taking full responsibility and accountability on the football pitch and sensing when the game is starting to turn and dealing with it accordingly. We did at least 10 stupid things in that last 10 mins which you just cannot do as a professional outfit. Rather than pick out and amplify any individual error, the reality is that the totality of these schoolboy errors is what led to the outcome we had on Sunday. Not having a crowd also played a role and the team(s) that adjust to this the best have the basis to achieve something this year. I can guarantee that with 60k strong in the stadium shouting AWAY Winks puts his foot right through that ball. The players need to find more from within as they haven't got the oxygen from the crowd to pull them over the line especially in the closing stages of a game.

I am choosing to look on it as a positive as I am confident that JM will be different from Poch and not endure these tendencies for too long. I won't be surprised to see another two or three go out of the door in Jan as we do have a small group of players in our squad who have it in them to consistently do daft things. Unfortunately, one thing that cannot be coached is decision making especially under pressure so you sometimes have to accept that certain players cannot be relied upon when it comes down to the crunch so you just have to bite the bullet and say adios. This season is already looking like a mad one with the results so far. I am glad this happened early in the season as I think this is the reality check the players needed to show that nothing less than 100% focus and attention will do for the full 90mins of every game if we are to achieve anything this year. In any case I feel this will turn out to be a great season for us. The season year does end in 1 afterall. Chin up everyone. COYS!!!

 

[SpartanSpur]

I can't be having any of this JM ballsed it up and should have tightened the team bollocks. Something Poch often said which I agree with is that sometimes, the game is nothing to do with tactics, team shape or instructions from the sideline. It is about a group of 11 players taking full responsibility and accountability on the football pitch and sensing when the game is starting to turn and dealing with it accordingly. We did at least 10 stupid things in that last 10 mins which you just cannot do as a professional outfit. Rather than pick out and amplify any individual error, the reality is that the totality of these schoolboy errors is what led to the outcome we had on Sunday.

I think you've completely nailed it here, it was a collective issue and it's what Jose was implying when he said we were unlucky but maybe we deserved that bad luck.

What we can't lose track of is that it was still a freak 10 mins where everything that could have gone wrong did. We cleared the late free kick only for Lanzini to score the goal of his life. Moyes pretty much gave up on the game when he took his best two attackers off. Yarmolenko comes on and sets up the own goal and is the one that pushes Bale and stops him scoring. Sometimes football is just a cruel game, but like you said if in just one of those key moments we didn't make the school boy error we would have won the game.

I honestly think it was a bit of a perfect storm, our goals came too early, causing some natural drop off, the game drifted for ages and whilst WH were on top they didn't really look like scoring. Then they get the late goal out of nowhere and the stage is set. If they had got their goal earlier in the second half it wouldn't have surprised me if we rallied and scored the 4th (just as we almost did with Bale), but the way it all happened meant it was all about hanging on.

I'm still angry and gutted about the result today (especially as it is compounded by the Newcastle draw), but the reality is if we can keep playing this well and can learn some lessons from today then the results will come and we'll be right up there.

 

[jay2040]

Thank fuck Bet365 had an early payout after we went 2 nil up!
In a way better these mistakes are made now and we can ensure that we don't repeat them too often for the rest of the season, as its going to be a long one.

 

[cjbyid]

Still annoying me, wish we had a cup game or something last night.

Only saving grace is that it happened 5 games in....still all to play for. This season will be weird.