Sustainability and the Pressing Game

[spurs9]

I think the preference to use young players has more to do with them being open-minded and highly motivated than their physical energy levels. The saying 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks' exists for a reason.

Once a player has bought into Pochettino's system and work ethic, I don't see why they have a shorter than average shelf-life. If explosive pace was the key to our system, we would have very different personnel (I wouldn't refer to many of our players as rapid).

Regardless of the system, players only excel in their latter years by improving tactically and positionally, and it's tougher to keep going in certain positions than others. Giggs is a great example of this, with how he moved from LW to CM.

Giggs was 35 when he moved central (most CMs would have retired years before hitting that age) but he still played a good % of games wide right up to his last season. Phenomenal player and just shows what you can do when you train right.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Very interesting topic and one that has crossed my mind before.

I think it's a perfectly legitimate and apt question - ie because Spurs cover so much ground, is there a risk (some of) the players will burn out before they should?

I'd like to think the answer is something as follows: Pochettino will tailor his style as the personnel change and the team develops, with the result that in two seasons' time we'll be playing a slower tempo but craftier and more incisive brand of football. And with - hopefully - a world-class number 10/9-and-a-half supplying the kind of cobra quality we currently lack in the final third.

Or is this wishful thinking on my part..?

In two season's time, I see no reason why all of our players wouldn't still fit our current system perfectly, assuming they don't pick up serious injuries etc (Dembele could be a slight concern in that respect). I would like to think our team will evolve over time, but I don't think it will be at the expense of our high tempo and energy.

Ages of our current first-team players as of the start of the 2017/18 season:

Lloris - 30
Vorm - 33
Alderweireld - 28
Vertonghen - 30
Wimmer - 24
Walker - 27
Rose - 27
Trippier - 26
Davies - 24
Dier - 23
Dembele - 30
Carroll - 25
Mason - 26
Bentaleb - 22
Alli - 21
Eriksen - 25
Lamela - 25
Son - 25
Chadli - 28
Onomah - 20
N'Jie - 23
Kane - 24
Average age - 25.7

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Giggs was 35 when he moved central (most CMs would have retired years before hitting that age) but he still played a good % of games wide right up to his last season. Phenomenal player and just shows what you can do when you train right.

Obviously he lasted longer than the average player, but in his early days I never would have expected him to become a quality CM. He continued to work hard at developing himself, as well as taking care of himself physically.

 

[Lemon]

If we can maintain good resistance in the players diets and recovery then it's possible.

But Kane and Dier (Alli) will need special help recovering after the summer if England go beyond the group.

 

[ohh_when_the_spurs]

Thats why we have such a good youth set up now.
Levys vision is that season after season youth players are making the step up into the 1st team so it's forever producing 1st team players trained to Tottenham way.

When the players no longer cut it physically they will be sold and already replaced with an academy product.

So it is a long term plan that will last, obviously our team will change as the players get older and the youngens come through

 

[absolute bobbins]

If we can maintain good resistance in the players diets and recovery then it's possible.

But Kane and Dier (Alli) will need special help recovering after the summer if England go beyond the group.

That won't be a problem, the England manager is as effective as it would be to try putting a tyre fire out a dogshit covered stick

 

[Lou3000]

We often talk about the young age of this squad as being a positive for the future of Spurs, but perhaps they are tailor-made for the present.

Can you imagine the joy in Levy's eyes when Poch comes into his office and says that Kane, Alli, Lamela, Son, and Dier are all nearing their peak age of 25, but they lack that youthful hunger and exuberance, so I'd prefer to sell them all and pick up some hot prospects from a Championship club or even a few League 1 stars.

 

[AW?]

Can you imagine the joy in Levy's eyes when Poch comes into his office and says that Kane, Alli, Lamela, Son, and Dier are all nearing their peak age of 25, but they lack that youthful hunger and exuberance, so I'd prefer to sell them all and pick up some hot prospects from a Championship club or even a few League 1 stars.

On current form and lets say we win the league, from your comment there I wonder what our squad is actually worth right now to be honest. A shit load would be my guess.

 

[Lou3000]

On current form and lets say we win the league, from your comment there I wonder what our squad is actually worth right now to be honest. A shit load would be my guess.

This would be my best guess as to our first XI in € (what we paid in €).

Lloris - 25 (12)
Rose - 20 (1)
Wimmer - 15 (6)
Alderweireld - 30 (12)
Walker - 20 (4)
Dier - 20 (5)
Dembele - 25 (19)
Alli - 40 (6)
Lamela - 20 (30)
Eriksen - 35 (13)
Kane - 75 (0)

 

[dudu]

I don't know how it is sustainable, in spain one of the reasons head coaches don't last that long is because players become complacent to the high pressing system after a long period

Pep Guardiola hated his last season at Barcelona and felt the team wasn't no longer responding. Pep now will no longer stay at a club for longer than 3 seasons as he felt his system isn't sustainable for such a long period.

I think Poch definitely needs to adapt and learn a bit more in regards to rotation and playing style if he wants this to be a long term project.

Also having a young squad isn't sustainable as it will cost a lot to constantly change players though it does help the academy is still yet to produce its best players.

True but, if we can keep the 'team' together the fight will hopefully be for each other and the collective success. Its much harder to breed that mentality at a club full of superstars

 

[Spurger King]

Some very interesting replies. Cheers guys.

I think there's every chance that this team could be around for a while (almost certainly with a gradual blend of younger players being introduced), but thought it was a point worth considering.

Valid comments about Pochettino still learning as a manager, and the importance of getting in young players that are willing to buy into his approach. One of the things I should have made clear is that I just don't see this group of players growing old as our first team when youth is clearly high on our manager's agenda. Clearly we won't do an AC Milan and let a group of talented players allow us to become overfilled with tired veterans, so if Pochettino is here for a while it will be fascinating to see the balancing act of allowing players to develop and evolve, whilst gradually introducing the next generation. We're already seeing signs of this with Onomah, and to some extent, Wimmer.

Ultimately I'm hoping that the thread raises some interesting questions about the idea of a team growing and developing as they get to feel more and more comfortable playing together, versus the importance of continuing to make youth a pivotal aspect of our first team presence and overall performance.

 

[Spursidol]

Simply put, Pochettino has a bit of a reputation for having young, energetic teams capable of fulfilling his pressing game. Does that mean our young players have an expiry date?

To someone like me, looking at our young players developing as a team makes me feel confident about the future. Here's a group of players that can grow together, and get better and better.

However, if youthfulness and fitness are the key to Pochettino's philosophy, are we looking at a temporary situation when it comes to our squad balance? Is there a chance that we'll be looking at a high turnover of playing staff over the coming years as Pochettino seeks to maintain a youthful team?

The high press demands a certain level of energy over the course of a season. In 4 years this team could have really gelled together, but would they still be able to maintain the level of high-energy pressing that is at the centre of Pochettino's tactics?

We often talk about the young age of this squad as being a positive for the future of Spurs, but perhaps they are tailor-made for the present.

Surely the fact that Dembele is having his best ever season at Spurs at aged 28 tells you that it not all about youth, as you may recall he had become a bit of a squad player in the last couple of years but has re-established himself as a first team regular.

The fact that many of the team is young is really a result of selling the experienced players who were not willing to buy into Poch's philosophy and as those players were found out between transfer windows, Poch rightly gave a number of academy players a chance to show what the could do - perhaps not surprisingly they showed themselves to be malleable and willing to try harder to establish themselves as first team regulars - hence our useful squad.

Had Soldado, Adebyor, Paulhino, Capoue et al been willing to try harder and adapt to Poch's philosophy our squad would be a lot older.

Whilst I think there will be some change every season, if only to accommodate a couple more Academy youngsters being tried out in the first team squad, I doubt we'll see wholesale change every year. In fact I think we'll see a number of this squad still here in 5 years time