Tanguy Ndombele - The £63m problem Daniel Levy needs Jose Mourinho to solve

[HedgieSpur]

Nope - you're missing the point- it's not about this match alone, it's about his general application since he's been with us and in particular his application last week. Look at his reaction to this incident against Wolves last week, he wanted to say something and refrained from saying anything and just laughed it off.

He praised practically every other player - if it was down to man management he would be criticizing and calling out Sanchez for example who had a terrible match by his standards.

Players should want to self improve, any professional footballer would see that clip and be embarrassed and WANT to better themselves - if they can't at least do that then they're at the wrong club, playing at the wrong level.

All very valid points that I don't don't disagree with, but I think the way in which was handled was poor. Anyway, I think we simply don't see it the same way, so lets not flog it further.

 

[Metalhead]

Cool. Lets agree to disagree. We both hope for the same thing nonetheless

Absolutely - TBF, my take on it and it was the same with Poch is that as the manager, they can make any decision that they want but they are responsible for those decisions and at the end of the day, they can take the credit if it goes right and it's their job on the line if it doesn't.

 

[double0]

Anti-Mourinho's love this narrative that the 9 other players didn't do Ndombele any favours. The entire fucking rest of the team is to blame, in other words. In a team sport. That makes sense.

The 9 other players should all get the blame too plus the manager. That's the point of a team, you are as strong as the weakest link.



That's all I am saying.

 

[Lenn0n]

Ndombele doesn't look fit to me.

I would say its impossible to judge Mourinho's comments on the guy without knowing the behind the scenes narrative. If after all this time he is not cooperating with the proactive efforts to improve his performance (fitness training, die, following guidance given in private etc) maybe public criticism is the next escalation - a point made by an earlier post.

I dont really get all the 'comments should only be made in private' or public comments 'create division in the changing room'. Firstly, for all we know - the player sentiment may be 'its about time something was said'. Further when a player is pulled at half time that is already the strongest public comment that his performance is not adequate. So why are we concerned about Jose saying something which everyone already knows!

 

[Smokinhotspur]

The issue is not Ndombele per se but how the fuck he has ended up at our club! A player that was released from his first club because of a propensity to put on weight and question marks over his commitment. Even last season his manager was publicly critical about how he could turn in a masterclass against City only to throw in poor performances against lower level opposition in a league much less demanding than the PL. I am perplexed as to how we could go so long without spending any money only to spunk it away on an absolute dud. Do we actually scout players or just buy them off YouTube clips? We have a tendency to fuck it up royally when we try to spend big. Soldado springs to mind albeit he tried his best.

 

[IamSpurtacus]

I want Ndombele to succeed as much as the next man, but this is scathing - and i guess JM is using every trick in the book to spark a reaction

I thought this was informative - and telling...

 

[Shadydan]

The sprints, that is shocking.

 

[double0]

Ndombele doesn't look fit to me.

I would say its impossible to judge Mourinho's comments on the guy without knowing the behind the scenes narrative. If after all this time he is not cooperating with the proactive efforts to improve his performance (fitness training, die, following guidance given in private etc) maybe public criticism is the next escalation - a point made by an earlier post.

I dont really get all the 'comments should only be made in private' or public comments 'create division in the changing room'. Firstly, for all we know - the player sentiment may be 'its about time something was said'. Further when a player is pulled at half time that is already the strongest public comment that his performance is not adequate. So why are we concerned about Jose saying something which everyone already knows!

In your understanding of fitness, is there a difference between training fitness and match fitness?

In terms of public shaming there is a much better way surely in protecting the player and the club assets.

Going strictly on the Burnley game, was Ndombele THAT bad. His first start in how many games playing with Skipp (a young lad Mourinho also subbed but did not blame) 5 CB's all playing in a straight line and no width.

 

[Lenn0n]

In your understanding of fitness, is there a difference between training fitness and match fitness?

In terms of public shaming there is a much better way surely in protecting the player and the club assets.

Going strictly on the Burnley game, was Ndombele THAT bad. His first start in how many games playing with Skipp (a young lad Mourinho also subbed but did not blame) 5 CB's all playing in a straight line and no width.

Dunno the difference between training and match fitness - but he doesn't seem to have much energy when he is off the ball.

I agree with public shaming does little for a club asset in all normal circumstances: however If this 'asset' doesnt play his value, match fitness all suffer anyway. If the more proactive (behind the scenes) efforts are not working then Jose has to try something different. So maybe this is a last throw of the dice.

 

[Shadydan]

Wow

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Wow

Spot on analysis by Carragher.

 

[mightyspur]

The sprints, that is shocking.

less sprints that Lloris

 

[mightyspur]

Wow

His off the ball application is definitely the problem. Like playing with 10 men at times how he seems to hide. No doubting his ability when on the ball, but he definitely needs to step up. Problem is, I am not sure Jose will give him too many more opportunities to do it and we'll end up in a downward spiral where he doesn't play because he doesn't apply himself and then doesn't apply himself when he does play.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

No doubting his ability when on the ball, but he definitely needs to step up.

And the question is can he step up? What I liked about Carragher's analysis is he identified the issue as one of whether Ndombele can OR doesn't want to run. My suspicion is that he can't and no matter what amount of fitness work he puts in, he just doesn't have the engine to play CM in this league otherwise his fitness levels should be much better given he was signed early and had a proper pre-season. This is probably why he is so technically sound in tight situations as he has had to develop strongly in that area to compensate for his lack of mobility. He's been able to get away with it in the less intense French league where teams tend to drop off but will continue to be exposed in ours where so many teams press high up the pitch and you have to work to get every inch of space to play. We either move him further up the pitch as an option at no 10 or he will need to be sold. Just can't see the fella making it in CM especially under a demanding manager like Jose.

I wonder whether Poch is the guy that really pushed for this signing and this is where things started to go sour with Levy when he suggested it could take up to 2 years to see the best of the club's record signing. So painful to see Fernandes slotting right in and pulling up trees at United. He is so the guy we should have signed.

 

[mawspurs]

So painful to see Fernandes slotting right in and pulling up trees at United. He is so the guy we should have signed.

This, and he was available for less than we paid for Ndombele.

 

[Canukspurs]

I'm getting pretty fed up with you Jose.......

 

[Shadydan]

This, and he was available for less than we paid for Ndombele.

This again ffs lol

@wrd There's another one for you

 

[John48]

Sadly it is a conundrum Jose has to sort out because at £63M we can't sell him for anything like that, so he's here for a good while yet.