Team v West Brom

[nightgoat]

Yeah 3 at the back is clearly a more attacking formation for us. 3 defenders vs 4. And as we get all our width from Rose and Walker, it means they can stay high and not worry too much about getting back, given Dier and Vertonghen are both comfortable in full back areas. It also means we have an extra body in the middle so Alli can get nearer / beyond Kane with more frequency.

3 at the back suits our personnel and strengths so well, I expect us to use it more often than not from now on.

Average positions v Chelsea (3-4-3);

Average positions v Man City (4-2-3-1);

Rose and Walker's positions are very similar in both games. Walker is slightly further back v Man City but then Sissoko is playing very much as a wide attacker where there is no equivalent on the left.

 

[nicdic]

So looking at the 4 most recent games where Walker and Rose played here are their average positions...

In these games Walker's position is the same regardless, but Rose seems to get forward more when playing in a four. And we clearly have one player further back when playing a three...

 

[glospur]

So looking at the 4 most recent games where Walker and Rose played here are their average positions...

View attachment 27903

In these games Walker's position is the same regardless, but Rose seems to get forward more when playing in a four. And we clearly have one player further back...

Fair enough then, mate.

I just assumed that it would naturally mean that we would have an extra attacking player on the field, but judging by those heat maps (although I must say that I think there's more to the respective strengths and weaknesses to each formation than simply the players positions) it's pretty conclusive that it doesn't have much of an effect on the positioning of the fullbacks.

 

[Bulletspur]

Same team as against Chelsea. It'll end up looking like this as West brom will be so deep

Dier Toby verts

Wanyama
Walker____ dembele _____rose
Eriksen_____DeleAlli
Kane​

Not bad but I would rather include Lloris than play with 10 men!

 

[nicdic]

Fair enough then, mate.

I just assumed that it would naturally mean that we would have an extra attacking player on the field, but judging by those heat maps (although I must say that I think there's more to the respective strengths and weaknesses to each formation than simply the players positions) it's pretty conclusive that it doesn't have much of an effect on the positioning of the fullbacks.

I think its a great option for some games, but I think it adds more solidity rather than giving us more going forward. 4 games is also a pretty small sample size, but it has just felt like Walker and play the same game regardless of what system or formation we play.

 

[dondo]

Average positions v Chelsea (3-4-3);
View attachment 27901

Average positions v Man City (4-2-3-1);
View attachment 27902

Rose and Walker's positions are very similar in both games. Walker is slightly further back v Man City but then Sissoko is playing very much as a wide attacker where there is no equivalent on the left.

Is that the average position of when they touch the ball or the average position with and without the ball?

 

[carpediem991]

-------------------Lloris-------------------
----------Alderweireld-Verts-------------
Walker--Wanyama-Dembele---Rose-
-------Sissoko---Alli-----Eriksen--------
--------------------Kane--------------------

Subs: Vorm, Dier, Trippier, Winks, NKoudou, Janssen, Son

Bring on the seven man midfield

 

[Cravenspurs]

Craig Gardner was transferred so we should be good this time around. Swear he only scores against us.

 

[archiewasking]

Craig Gardner was transferred so we should be good this time around. Swear he only scores against us.

Who from the WBA side hasn't scored this season? Look for that and go put a shedload of money on it.

*Please gamble responsibly. When the fun stops. STOP.*

 

[stevenurse]

No match thread yet? Worried about this one personally. We have a pretty bad record against this lot and of the 14 league goals we've conceded this season, 8 have been as a result of a set piece or penalty.

Seems to be a real area of concern. Odds of 20/1 on McAuley scoring tomorrow are extremely good!

 

[danielneeds]

No match thread yet? Worried about this one personally. We have a pretty bad record against this lot and of the 14 league goals we've conceded this season, 8 have been as a result of a set piece or penalty.

Seems to be a real area of concern. Odds of 20/1 on McAuley scoring tomorrow are extremely good!

You can't say it's an area of real concern when we've conceded 14 in 19.

Personally I think WBA's new found ambition and confidence will be their undoing tomorrow. They won't be able to help themselves in being a bit more ambitious than previous years, and hopefully we can take advantage.

 

[rio bryan]

Fair enough then, mate.

I just assumed that it would naturally mean that we would have an extra attacking player on the field, but judging by those heat maps (although I must say that I think there's more to the respective strengths and weaknesses to each formation than simply the players positions) it's pretty conclusive that it doesn't have much of an effect on the positioning of the fullbacks.

They are not heat maps, they are showing the average position's.

 

[rio bryan]

Average positions v Chelsea (3-4-3);
View attachment 27901

Average positions v Man City (4-2-3-1);
View attachment 27902

Rose and Walker's positions are very similar in both games. Walker is slightly further back v Man City but then Sissoko is playing very much as a wide attacker where there is no equivalent on the left.

Hold on hold on,glospur the heat maps say a little bit different, both full backs spent more time in the opponents half in the Chelsea game than they did in the City game.

 

[Wellspurs]

Hope we have a decent ref for this as Foster was time wasting in first 5 minutes of the FIRST half at their place! !!

 

[tommo84]

No Jonny Evans for them so Dele should try to stay close to Kane to put pressure on their centre-backs.

Same XI as against Chelsea but maybe as more of a 3-5-2 with Eriksen dropping slightly deeper and Alli playing narrow and almost as a second striker.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Based on a limited sample size, we've played better recently with the 3 at the back.

Weirdly it seems to allow us to create a bit more and, perhaps most tellingly, seems to bring the best out of Eriksen. It wasn't as good against Villa because our men behind the striker didn't seem to get the system, and Janssen didn't seem to understand what sport he was playing, but other than that we've looked good with 3 at the back.

Ultimately it doesn't make a massive difference, as if we play Dier in the back 3, he can always step forwards anyway to effectively turn it into a back 4.

I would go:

Lloris

Dier Aldeweireld Vertonghen

Walker------------------------------------ Rose

Wanyama Winks

Alli----------------- Eriksen

Kane

Subs: Vorm, Wimmer, Trippier, Dembele, Son, N'Koudou, Janssen
​

Basically allow Alli and Eriksen to float all of the pitch which should drag them out of their defensive shape. Walker and Rose provide the width and Winks keeps things ticking over.

If they really do come and sit and frustrate us for a bit, we take off Dier/Wanyama, move Eriksen into midfield and bring on Son/N'Koudou/Janssen.

 

[Roynie]

I'd like to see Dembele playing a bit further up. It's virtually certain they will park the bus and Dembele is a beast to get off the ball. He could casue havoc in the middle higher up the pitch. That would leave Eriksen, Alli and Kane to move around and be available for some quick one touch passing to create chances.

 

[maltahotspur]

Hope we have a decent ref for this as Foster was time wasting in first 5 minutes of the FIRST half at their place! !!

The referee is Anthony Taylor. He's refereed us only once this season against Stoke away and we won 4-0.

 

[Roynie]

The referee is Anthony Taylor. He's refereed us only once this season against Stoke away and we won 4-0.

So, what shirt number are we going to give him?

 

[tommo84]

Based on a limited sample size, we've played better recently with the 3 at the back.

Weirdly it seems to allow us to create a bit more and, perhaps most tellingly, seems to bring the best out of Eriksen.

There's nothing weird about it. Our full-backs have been our main source of width and a big source of our attacking dynamism throughout Pochettino's tenure. At the start of the season a few teams played against us with 4-3-3 formations (Everton and Liverpool in particular) and this stopped our full-backs from getting forward as we were being outnumbered in midfield and we couldn't afford to leave our centre-backs isolated against a 3-pronged attack. It meant we couldn't get the full-backs involved in attack and we struggled to get a foothold in those games until the last half hour.

We've therefore changed the full-backs to wing-backs and the extra man in defence allows Rose and Walker to start higher up the pitch without leaving us as exposed defensively. Also by stretching the game horizontally there is more space centrally and in the channels for Eriksen to affect the game.

It won't always be the most effective way to set up - especially against teams who park the bus as we probably won't need 3 CBs - but it gives us a solution to the problems we faced against Everton and Liverpool in particular, and the 2nd half at Stamford Bridge.