The Formula 1 Thread

[Gb160]

 

[barry]

I don't understand the hate this bloke gets. He's remarkably humble and speaks up for a lot of worthy causes, eg the LGBTQ+ issues in the Middle East. I honestly have no idea how he managed to compose himself for the interviews and podium, in the way he did.

I suspect it helps that he's won it 8 times already, but I do agree with everything you've said

 

[littlewilly]

I suspect it helps that he's won it 8 times already, but I do agree with everything you've said

That’s just it - he’s only won it seven times and this, his eighth, would have been a new record.

 

[mark87]

Still not expecting anything to happen from all this.

 

[Gb160]

Still not expecting anything to happen from all this.

It’s doubtful it will, but I can understand Mercedes stand here.

I mean, it’s frustrating as fuck as a fan, investing all that time to watch practise/qualifying and racing over the course of a year.
I think I read that the Merc F1 team employs around 1000 people, now imagine that’s an entire year of your professional career to see the big prize get snatched away at the last second through complete incompetence by the FIA.
I get that most of the money for these teams come from the constructors championship, but it’s the prestige of the drivers championship that people will remember.

Up until now all the appeals have been to the FIA trying to reverse decisions made by the FIA, they’re policing themselves.

What a fucking mess.

 

[Mark_147]

It’s doubtful it will, but I can understand Mercedes stand here.

I mean, it’s frustrating as fuck as a fan, investing all that time to watch practise/qualifying and racing over the course of a year.
I think I read that the Merc F1 team employs around 1000 people, now imagine that’s an entire year of your professional career to see the big prize get snatched away at the last second through complete incompetence by the FIA.
I get that most of the money for these teams come from the constructors championship, but it’s the prestige of the drivers championship that people will remember.

Up until now all the appeals have been to the FIA trying to reverse decisions made by the FIA, they’re policing themselves.

What a fucking mess.

They'll take it to the court of arbitration if needs be. They're also using the same lawyers that got Man city's CL ban overturned.

 

[mark87]

 

[Yiddo100]

Still not expecting anything to happen from all this.

Agree, if the rules are that the race director can make them up as he goes, what can they appeal

 

[Tucker]

I don’t blame them for going in hard on this. Like I said last night, I don’t blame Verstappen or Red Bull for this, its really unfair on all involved, but Masi essentially made up the rules as he went along yesterday.

If I were a team, car manufacturer, sponsor, or driver, I’d seriously be considering my continued place in the sport if this is the way they are going to run it. As others have said, this is more like fucking wrestling than a sport.

 

[Yid-ol]

Taken from the BBC, but highlights all the main issues people have mentioned on here

The questions over the rules
What followed was unprecedented.

Race director Michael Masi initially said lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake, which would have left five cars between Hamilton and Verstappen for the one lap of racing that it looked like would be left.

That's against normal protocol, so Red Bull complained.

Masi changed his mind and let those five cars overtake - but not the other three. This put Verstappen and Hamilton together but left two lapped cars between third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari and Verstappen and one between Valtteri Bottas' Mercedes and Yuki Tsunoda's Alpha Tauri.

This is also against normal protocol. So Mercedes complained, to no avail.

The race was restarted with one lap to go and the inevitable happened. Verstappen, with so much extra grip, passed Hamilton into Turn Five. Hamilton tried to get him back down the two subsequent straights, but was never likely to.

The world championship had changed hands - as a result of a questionable call from the race director.

George Russell, a Mercedes driver next year, said: "Max is an absolutely fantastic driver who has had an incredible season and I have nothing but huge respect for him, but what just happened is absolutely unacceptable. I cannot believe what we've just seen."

Verstappen obviously expressed the opposing view. "Everything [on track] was clear," he said, "so why would you do another lap behind the safety car?"

Disinterested observers - drivers and team members - were baffled. What happened is not the way things are normally dealt with, and one driver told BBC Sport he believed that had this been any other race, it would simply have ended behind the safety car.

The problem is the rule that deals with allowing lapped cars to overtake leaves room for manoeuvre. It says: "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake' has been sent to all competitors, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car."

But that message was not displayed, a different one was, ordering only some cars through, and this eventuality is not in the regulations.

However, Masi had acted contrary to another part of the same article, 48.12 of the sporting regulations.

This says: "Once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap."

But that's not what happened - the following lap was the last lap, and the cars were released to race at the start of it, when the rules appear to say they should not have been.

There's another rule that says the race director shall have "overriding authority" on a number of matters, including the safety car.

The stewards used this as part of their justification for throwing out Mercedes' appeal after the race. But does the rule mean Masi can decide to do whatever he wants in such situations, or that he has the ultimate authority in the correct application of the rules?

The stewards' other argument for rejecting the protest was that article 48.13 - the very next clause - overrules 48.12 because it says: "Once the message 'safety car in this lap' has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap."

This seems to suggest the FIA's own rules regarding the safety car contradict themselves

If the call is let them race, why was it just max and lewis allowed to race? Why not have 3rd, 4th ECT right behind max for a proper race?

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

Big part of yesterday was the teammates. Perez excellent at holding up Lewis for Max, whereas Bottas had a shocker.

Max doesn’t take every pit stop he desires if Bottas has his car in second where it really should be, and Lewis probably wins the title.

 

[Wick3d]

Big part of yesterday was the teammates. Perez excellent at holding up Lewis for Max, whereas Bottas had a shocker.

Max doesn’t take every pit stop he desires if Bottas has his car in second where it really should be, and Lewis probably wins the title.

Bottas had a faulty PU. Bottas was a guinea pig for Mercedes this year for Hamiltons benefit. They experimented with his engine all year, and that is what cost him in terms of raw performance. He was running unreliable engine after unreliable engine.

 

[Trix]

Big part of yesterday was the teammates. Perez excellent at holding up Lewis for Max, whereas Bottas had a shocker.

Max doesn’t take every pit stop he desires if Bottas has his car in second where it really should be, and Lewis probably wins the title.

All that is irrelevant if the rules are followed though. Max didn't win the race yesterday, he was given it.

 

[Wick3d]

I hope this is wrong: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1639389959

The FIA need to be held to account. Masi has to be sacked.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I hope this is wrong: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1639389959

The FIA need to be held to account. Masi has to be sacked.

You misunderstand the nature of the dispute here - moving forward will not accomplish anything.

 

[$hoguN]

You misunderstand the nature of the dispute here - moving forward will not accomplish anything.

There is a really good series of tweets explaining why Mercedes challenge has merits. Not sure if will change the result but could be important.

I’m really surprised, given that a WDC was literally just stolen from them, that Mercedes aren’t threatening to pull out and take their engines with them

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

There is a really good series of tweets explaining why Mercedes challenge has merits. Not sure if will change the result but could be important.

I’m really surprised, given that a WDC was literally just stolen from them, that Mercedes aren’t threatening to pull out and take their engines with them

On the 2nd point - I think they are, ar may be.

FIA may have won the battle here - in getting the new champion that they wanted - but Mercedes was already close to pulling out at the last contract extension. These kind of shenanigans gives them the impetus to pull out completely when this deal expires.

Mercedes is not the same draw as Ferrari - but it will be damaging to the sport, and to the series if the team pulls out, and stops providing engines.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

(of course the flip side is - for Mercedes, and Toto, this will be a financial transaction - and now a very real threat of pulling out of the series should land them a nice financial package, on par with the deal Ferrari get - leaving Red Bull further behind financially)

 

[yankspurs]

I know most of us are moaning about how it was decided, and it was wrong, but F1 will get massive increase in fans from it... Because of the drama...

They had the eyeballs of probably the most Americans they’ve ever had on it yesterday & blatantly rigged it. Not sure they’ll have that again after what they did.

Taken from the BBC, but highlights all the main issues people have mentioned on here



If the call is let them race, why was it just max and lewis allowed to race? Why not have 3rd, 4th ECT right behind max for a proper race?

Because had Sainz won over both, Horner wouldnt have offered him a job after he’s inevitably fired unceremoniously after this?

 

[Norgie]

I watched it with my heart pounding in the last 10 minutes, I'm not the biggest fan of the sport and haven't watched it properly since the Damon Hill days. However yesterday was the biggest load of crap I think I've seen from a sport in a while. I won't start watching it again anytime soon. How can you be over 11 seconds ahead of someone and the gap be allowed to nothing from no fault of his own. That's not a sport, it's not a level playing field. I admit I wanted to Lewis to win but if Max had won fairly I would have said fair play.