The Formula 1 Thread

[Welshiespursboyo]

Fair points, My Mrs said exactly the same Welshie. I just feel racers should race.

I agree with you that racers should race, but this is something that should have been arranged before the race...i.e 'no team instructions boys, just go out and do your thing'!

 

[Spurger King]

Vettel is a ruthless dick. It's an attitude that will probably win him another title this year.

 

[neogenisis]

Vettel is a ruthless dick. It's an attitude that will probably win him another title this year.

And its an attitude that all the true greats have had.

 

[Montasura]

Fair points, My Mrs said exactly the same Welshie. I just feel racers should race.

You're right saying racers should race, but the whole point is that Webber wasn't racing because he was told not to. As ordered he wound it down to protect the tyres and he would have expected Vettel to do the same. Until that point he had deservedly led the race through consistently better laps than Vettel. Ultimately the same happened with Mercedes, Rosberg wasn't happy, but Ross Brawn made it very clear that bringing both cars home in those positions was the most important thing.

Vettel defied an order that resulted in some great wheel to wheel racing, but what if they had come together?? It was completely reckless and selfish of Vettel to do what he did. Personally I would liken it to a boxer trying to get a sneaky punch in after the bell has rung.

 

[beats1]

And its an attitude that all the true greats have had.

Yes and no, while in the past like the 90's nobody would complain about two drivers fighting it out but back then the car was more of a car and whereas now they are more of a precision machine where a driver is able to change the settings to make their car run faster or slower tbh. Webber showed his maturity by following team orders and not fighting back and he knew that they wouldnt say anything to Vettel and he would get the brunt as this is what happened last time. Interestingly this isnt the first time this has happened and last time it cost Webber the title and Vettel won it, as Webber was going for 3 wins on the trot and Vettel went in to him despite the fact everyone including McLaren got told to turn their engines down as Webber and Lewis were battling it out and what do you Vettel turned his engines up, then Webber even gave him space but Vettel turned in to him in a move to say get out of my way bitch. Then they crashed and webber finished third. Later in the season he demanded to have the faster parts that were developed and Webber finished 3rd on a slower car, whilst Vettel became the youngest ever to win a championship. Everyone in F1 know him to be a douche and a ruthless arsehole, I heard this first hand from the guys on my course, one who works for force India and another who works for another team.

As for whether its a attitude that all true greats not true, as the two drivers considered to be best to have ever driven have both won less Schumacher. Whilst senna probably do the same as Vettel, it would be known before hand that he wouldnt take that shit and his teammate would never turn the engine down lol. One of the greatest British Drivers, Sterling Moss, never won a world championship but he actually could of one way, in 1958 his main rival had been disqualified for a push start and then Moss started to protest on Hawthorn's behalf and stewards then lets his points stand, Hawthorn went on to win the championship by one point.

 

[Montasura]

I thought the transcript of the press conference afterwards made for very interesting reading....

After facing the questions of Sky Sports F1's Martin Brundle on the frostiest of podiums, an apologetic Vettel and a simmering Webber, along with a somewhat sombre Lewis Hamilton, were grilled by the written media in a blockbuster Q&A session. Here, in full, is what happened...

Q: Sebastian, congratulations, your 27th career victory, equalling Sir Jackie Stewart and on a day when one of your main rivals for the championship, arguably, Fernando Alonso scored no points. You said at the midway stage in the race, something along the lines of "I'm faster than Mark, let me through." But in the end, you did it yourself. Can you tell us how your race unfolded.
Sebastian Vettel: "Obviously it was an interesting one to start with and mixed conditions. I think we weren't too bad on the crossover going to dries. Probably a little bit too soon. Some places on the track looked pretty dry but they turned out to be still quite a bit damp. I think coming out in traffic didn't help, so I lost the lead at that time, which I think put us in position two, three at that time because after that it was quite a long race, trying to look after tyres.

"Towards the end I feel I had quite a strong pace and obviously at the very end on a new set of medium tyres had a bit more speed and it was a close fight but I think... yeah... as you can see I'm not entirely happy. I think I did a big mistake today. I think we should have stayed in the positions that we were.
"I didn't ignore it on purpose but I messed up in that situation and obviously took the lead which, I can see now he's upset, but yeah, I want to be honest at least and stick to the truth and apologise. I know that it doesn't really help his feelings right now but I think other than that, obviously a very good race for the team. We handed the tyres I think pretty well today. To sum it up, apologies to Mark, obviously now the result is there but... yeah, all I can say is that I didn't do it deliberately."

Q: What exactly do you mean? Was there some understanding between you that you've broken?
SV: "No. I think obviously we talk about these kind of things before we go into the race and its not the first time we race each other. I think the difference in pace at the end probably wasn't fair because he was trying to save the car and the tyres and, as I said, I did not ignore that but I should have been aware, to be honest. Obviously then took quite a lot of risk to pass him and that was the end of the race then."

Q: Mark, obviously there have been some times in the past when you've been very close together and things have been said. Your reaction to what Sebastian has just said.
Mark Webber: "Well, I was happy with how I drove today. I think it was a very good team result. We went into the race a little bit worried about how the race would unfold for us as a team in terms of performance. You still have to drive the grands prix these days at eight-tenths - it's not like the old day when grand prix drivers are driving flat out and leaning on the tyres like hell - because the tyres are wearing out. So it's not the most satisfying thing for us as grand prix drivers these days - but it's the same for everybody.

"And then yeah... got myself into a position where we were controlling the race. I was being told the target lap times, again in relation to how the tyres are. Obviously Seb and Lewis come back to me at one point in the race, I responded and lifted the pace up and got away around the stop. And then we had a pretty good situation tee'd up towards the end of the race.
"And then after the last stop I thought that it would be interesting how the team would deal with it and I was ready for a sprint to the end. And then the team obviously rang up and said 'the race is... the pressure is off now. We need to look after the tyres to the end. Basically don't fight each other.' I turned the engine down. We have some codes in terms of getting the cars to the end. In the end I'm happy with how I drove and... yeah it doesn't... yeah, emotions are... probably not the best time to talk at the moment."

Q: Lewis, congratulations on your first podium as a Mercedes driver. You don't look particularly happy about it. In your case you retained the position and Nico stayed behind you to the finish. Describe your race.
Lewis Hamilton: "The team did a fantastic job, so I'm very happy to be up here representing them. They've been working so hard over the winter and obviously welcomed me into the team so to be up here and to be on the second row for me and Nico is a great feeling.
"But of course, I don't feel spectacular sitting here. Obviously I think Nico deserved to be where I am right now but obviously the team thought that, I guess, with the position in the Championship perhaps it was logical to stay in the positions we were in. But yeah, I have to say a big congratulations to Nico because he drove a much smarter and much more controlled race than I did today."

QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Q: (Peter Windsor - F1 Racing) Sebastian, you said that you apologise; would you go so far as to say - without wanting to put words in your mouth - that if the situation arises, you feel that you owe Mark a win now?
SV: "We just came out of the cars a couple of minutes ago but surely I want to talk with him again later on without all of you. As I said before, I didn't mean to ignore the call, it's something we talk about many times in the year and yeah, I should have behaved better today."

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) Lewis, we could hear at the end of the race while Nico was parking the car, 'remember this one,' he said to the team. Will you remember it too?
LH: "Of course, of course. How can I forget?"

Q: (Michael Schmidt - Auto, Motor und Sport) To all three of you, I understand the technical reasons why you have to pace yourselves at the end and why there are team orders, but let's say for the fan, is that the price we have to pay that the teams tell you in the last stint not to attack any more because everybody was excited about the fight between Mark and Seb and everybody was a bit disappointed when we heard that Rosberg was not allowed to attack you, Lewis.
MW: "I'm a huge sports fan and I think we want to see people give their best to the end. It's extremely unusual to have both cars at the end of a race together and I think the team's position is... we've gone through this many times with our own team and obviously now is a different situation for the future but... yeah, it's part of Formula One. I think that when you have 500 employees and it was nip and tuck for Sebastian and I to be in the fence in turn one, Michael Schmidt's happy but is the factory happy, are we happy?

"So when the blood is boiling and everyone is on the edge, then yeah, we are professionals, we are world class, we did the job today but it's not an easy situation for the team. It's always spoken about, always has been, always will be. If you had one car teams, it's not a problem. In some teams to have a one car team is the ideal scenario but three cars, four cars, it's always going to be the same thing, that contact between teammates is the worst scenario for a team."

Q: Sebastian, your perspective?
SV: "If I take my race, obviously, as I said, I felt a little bit more comfortable because I had new tyres at the end, a new set of tyres which I think worked a little bit better today but yeah, it's very different racing to how it used to be in the past, even to last year, it's another step, so it's a bit more extreme, just trying to look after the tyres and driving into the unknown.
"I think you see on TV as well how pieces of rubber are flying off and how we suffer on those tyres and obviously the last thing you want is to risk a puncture and then therefore don't finish the race so I think we would all enjoy it if we had a tyre that was stronger we could race harder on it, but equally I think situations like that come up no matter what kind of tyres you have. Obviously, as Mark said, you have a certain responsibility for the team as well and a lot of people in the factory working all year and obviously you have two cars and I think you have to take that into account as well."

continued in next post.....

 

[Montasura]

Q: Lewis, your thoughts? Obviously this circuit is a fairly extreme one but do you see the picture continuing?
LH: "I probably do, yeah. These tyres make it very hard, very difficult to make them last and particularly for me today, I wasn't really able to make my tyres last as much as I wanted. I was fuel saving from an early point in the race which lost me a lot of time but generally these tyres make... it's not fun, I didn't enjoy the race.

"It's not the same as back in the day when you had stints where you are pushing to the maximum the whole time, you had tyres that would last. Now you're just... it's like you have a hundred dollars and you have to spend it wisely over a period of time. It makes racing a lot different. It's more strategic rather than pure speed racing."

Q: (Matt Coch - pitpass.com) Sebastian, you say you didn't ignore the instruction on purpose but I suggest that it was a deliberate move to pass Mark, so I wonder how you can say that you didn't ignore the instruction when clearly passing was a deliberate action.
SV: "I think it's not an easy situation for me. Obviously I'm the black sheep right now. Obviously I put myself in that position so, as I said, all I can say is apologies to Mark. I know that right now, obviously, having just come out of the car, it's probably difficult to explain everything but the pass was deliberate, obviously I wanted to pass him, you could see that, otherwise you wouldn't even try, but I didn't mean to ignore the strategy or the call. I made a mistake, simply."

Q: (Kate Walker - Girl Racer) Lewis, you said that Nico drove a really smart race and we did hear from quite early on that you were getting a lot of fuel messages, Nico was getting a few. Were you guys fuelled just on the edge of what was acceptable, were you racing too hard? What was your problem with fuel?
LH: "I think we were racing very hard to keep up with these guys because they were obviously on another level today. We were close but really on the knife edge trying to stay with them. We were trying to be as high up, as far up, as close to them as possible, but obviously I used too much fuel.

"I was being asked to save fuel from very early on, perhaps we were particularly aggressive on our fuel strategy which is a little bit unfortunate. I don't know what the situation was with Nico but for me, it loses quite a lot of time when you have to basically lift and coast for a hundred meters, fifty to a hundred meters before a corner.

"I think we can do a better job there and I think I can do a better job just looking after the tyres. I could see that Nico was not pushing too much at the start of his stints, which is where I was trying to keep up with these guys so I was perhaps pushing a little bit more, trying to really make the difference in the early stages of the tyres and took too much out of them but that's the name of the game."

Q: (Christopher Joseph - The Vancouver Sun) To both Mark and Lewis: given that F1 is a team sport and team dynamic is vital, what will you both do practically now moving forward to either repair or return to that great team dynamic you both had?
MW: "I think it's very early days right now, it's very raw, obviously, and we need to work out how the team goes best forwards from here. That's obviously going to be discussed this week. I will be in Australia on my surfboard, the phone won't be engaged, see what happens.

LH: "I think it's difficult to say for me what we do moving forward, but I will go and speak to the team and obviously whether or not I should apologise to Nico... I did say to him that he'd done a fantastic job. Would I let him past in the future if I was in the same position? I probably would."

Q: (Ian Parkes - Press Association) Mark, as has been mentioned, emotions are clearly raw but firstly do you at least accept Seb's apology, because that's not been mentioned yet and secondly, again emotions are raw but when you have a teammate who does ignore team orders, does it make you consider your future with the team, maybe even in Formula One?
MW: "My mind, in the last 15 laps was thinking that many things, yes. Many many things."

Q: (Dan Knutson - Auto Action) Again, to Vettel, do you realise in the past there have been things like this between Senna and Prost, Villeneuve and Pironi, that if you don't repair this, that the whole team gets in trouble and it all goes downhill?
SV: "Well, I think there's plenty of food on the table for you guys. I think it's something between Mark and myself. I think we've had situations in the past, never like that, so obviously there has been a lot of stories in the press written about our relationship etc.

"I think our relationship is very professional, obviously there's no problems. We are not best friends. I think it's very difficult to be best friends with any of the drivers but I think we share respect and I respect Mark as a racing driver. I remember occasions where obviously people express their opinion about Mark and his career which I thought at some stage were very disrespectful. I obviously try to be aware of what he has achieved, where he has come from, not only in Formula One but also before that and I respect that, so I respect him as a driver.

"Obviously we were giving each other a very hard time, probably similar to the fight that you saw today on the track, not trying to give each other much room. It's the same at every race and obviously it's not an easy battle but in terms of team spirit etc, I think we've been working very well together in the past.

"Obviously I can see that for you it probably sounds a bit dull, because if you look back at the results, the last three years I've had the upper hand but I think it was always very close. At this stage, can I say much more than I made a mistake, I'm not proud that I made it. If I had the chance to do it again, I would do it differently but it doesn't count now. I can't change it now, maybe in the future there's a situation where I can but I will try to explain that again to Mark and the whole team."

Q: (Trent Price - Richland F1) Mark, obviously yesterday there were a lot of unknowns surrounding tyres going into this race but you've executed basically what was a perfect race in terms of the tyre management. That must give you some confidence for the rest of the year.
MW: "Yeah, you're right, going into the event we were pretty concerned. Some of our long runs before the Grand Prix itself were pretty poor but these guys are not resting on any laurels, particularly, again, our key beacon in Adrian Newey, Adrian is working hard.

"The thing is I think it's quite good for the neutral, good for the fans and good for probably new people that are following Formula One, but the old - let's say people who have more of a grasp of the sport and more education of where the sport was - it's still a little bit hit and miss. With what we had, probably not much of an idea that's how the race would go for us today.

"I was surprised that other people were not with us, completely, people won't believe that but that's the case, and also I think, for the junior categories they need to get the tyres and things better for young drivers to learn how to push the cars to the limit and drive absolutely on the edge. You watch Rafa Nadal and Roger Federer play each other and it's playing with the lines, it's playing with precision for a five set match and we all enjoy watching that but at the moment we're driving at eight and a half tenths, eight tenths, conserving our pace and some more situations like this will probably happen in the future because there's a lot of ambiguity in who's (on the) pace and who's quick.

"Seb feels he's strong only in the middle of the race then I could respond. The racing is completely around nursing and trying to make the tyres survive and they're not conducive to driving a car on the limit. You don't see us really pushing on the limit. Obviously Seb and I had a push in the middle in our last stint but generally no drivers are really on the limit today. I don't know if I answered your question but anyway, that's my little rant."

Q: (Abhishek Takle - Midday) Mark, obviously emotions still very high but were the situation reversed in the future, would you stick to an agreement to turn down the engine and hold station, or would you ignore the call going by what happened today and pass Seb?
MW: "I think that question is not going to be answered right now. Let's just say there were a lot of things going through my mind in the last 15 laps of the Grand Prix, lots of different reasons, not just from today but also from the past. We'll see what happens. We've got three weeks before the next race."

Q: (Ann Giuntini - L'Equipe) We know you are all tough competitors and it doesn't belong to us to judge you too severely; just a question: would you be ready, if there is the opportunity, to offer a victory to Mark, not at the end of the championship when you are already champion or when it's over, but during the season. If there is a tough fight between you, and you are ahead and he's behind.
SV: "I think we had that question already. I think it was actually the first question that I got. I think it's something we need to think about, I need to think about but for sure, I can only say this, obviously, like I say, I made a mistake, I'm not proud of it. As I say, if I had the chance to do it again, I wouldn't do the same but obviously there's a lot of things that need to come together, to put ourselves in a similar position but yeah, it's definitely something that will be remembered or should be remembered."

Q: (Gary Meenaghan - The National) Seb, Mark's mentioned he thought about a lot of things for the last 15 laps, can you talk a bit about what you were thinking in those last 15 laps and when did you realise that you'd made the mistake?
SV: "As I said, I didn't do it deliberately so I didn't realise I had made a mistake, only when I came back but by not everybody's but the team's reaction, I realised. I had a very short word with Mark and then it hit me quite hard and I realised that - language - I f***** up."

Q: (Peter Windsor - F1 Racing) Sebastian, first lap with Fernando Alonso, did you feel anything in the impact?
SV: "Yeah I was a bit surprised. Obviously I had quite a good launch and I kept the lead into Turn One. We know that Turn One is not necessarily it, there's also Turn Two and I tried to defend and because it was very slippery I had to turn in into Turn Two and got a little bit of a hit, so I'm not sure whether it was him or someone else. But when I got the hit and looked into the mirror I saw he was quite close. I don't know what happened. I'm pretty sure he carried on after that. I think Mark passed him straight away. I was only told in the end that he didn't finish the race. I don't whether that is the reason."

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) A question to all drivers. What do you think the fans of Formula One will think when they hear or they read that the winner is saying "I'm sorry to win, the second should be here and the third says "I'm sorry to be here my team-mate that is fourth should be here"?
SV: "I think it's great for you because you have a lot to write about. We have quite a while until the next race it's good for you, I'm sure you don't get bored. I didn't say, I think generally, you know I'm not sorry to win, I think we both of us drove a strong race today but Mark should have won. I did the mistake. I can only repeat it now. People can think in a way what they want, they will always make up their own story, but as I said I wasn't aware until we took off our helmets really, so I'm sorry for that. But surely I will try to make up, first of all explain downstairs what happened.

MW: "As I say, I'm a big sports fan and the fans of any sport will want it to be a perfect world always. We want it to be pure, we want it to be as we see - football, boxing, cycling, whatever. We want it to be real. But there is an element of naivety... for me watching some sport as well and in the case of some Formula One fans watching this situation. It's impossible for everybody to understand everything and that's the same for me watching a football match or a Champions League match. Sometimes there are things you don't understand because sometimes there is naivety."

LH: "I don't have anything to say."

 

[beats1]

Interesting Webber has been critical in the past of Rubens saying that though he has massive respect for him he wouldnt want to race as a number 2 driver nor at the back of the grid. Now for years everyone has thought of him as a no.2 Webber was adament he wasn't despite Vettel getting preferential treatment over him. Interestingly this weekend before the race it was said Lewis wanted to speak to Red Bull and go there but the owner of Red Bull racing said we went with Mark for team chemistry. Now reading that it seems that Webber is seen to be a better fit with the volatile Vettel. Yet as Webber says he was thinking in the last 15 laps about his position at the team, I think he realised this week he is a number 2 driver tbh.

 

[Montasura]

Interesting Webber has been critical in the past of Rubens saying that though he has massive respect for him he wouldnt want to race as a number 2 driver nor at the back of the grid. Now for years everyone has thought of him as a no.2 Webber was adament he wasn't despite Vettel getting preferential treatment over him. Interestingly this weekend before the race it was said Lewis wanted to speak to Red Bull and go there but the owner of Red Bull racing said we went with Mark for team chemistry. Now reading that it seems that Webber is seen to be a better fit with the volatile Vettel. Yet as Webber says he was thinking in the last 15 laps about his position at the team, I think he realised this week he is a number 2 driver tbh.

Agreed. Obviously Webber was very angry in the heat of the moment and just after the race. He was visibly angry and clearly hating Vettel at the time, and this has influenced his responses in the Q&A afterwards. These next 3 weeks are massive for both Webber and Red Bull...how will the team deal with it? Will Webber calm down over time? If he remains angry then I honestly can't see him wanting to continue racing for Red Bull. No matter what assurances he is given by the team I simply cannot imagine that he will trust Vettel again should a similar situation arise. Yes Vettel has admitted that he "fucked up", but I honestly don't think I believe him. I think that he is so driven by his desire to be the best that he will do whatever he feels he needs to do. I just think he has a bit of the Luis Suarez about him.

And then compare him, and the whole situation, to Nico Rosberg. He argued the bit out with Ross Brawn over the radio but ultimately accepted his decision and when he was interviewed afterwards he came across as a model professional, clearly disappointed but fully accepting of what happened and the need for the team to bring both cars home safely in 3rd and 4th.

 

[beats1]

Agreed. Obviously Webber was very angry in the heat of the moment and just after the race. He was visibly angry and clearly hating Vettel at the time, and this has influenced his responses in the Q&A afterwards. These next 3 weeks are massive for both Webber and Red Bull...how will the team deal with it? Will Webber calm down over time? If he remains angry then I honestly can't see him wanting to continue racing for Red Bull. No matter what assurances he is given by the team I simply cannot imagine that he will trust Vettel again should a similar situation arise. Yes Vettel has admitted that he "fucked up", but I honestly don't think I believe him. I think that he is so driven by his desire to be the best that he will do whatever he feels he needs to do. I just think he has a bit of the Luis Suarez about him.

And then compare him, and the whole situation, to Nico Rosberg. He argued the bit out with Ross Brawn over the radio but ultimately accepted his decision and when he was interviewed afterwards he came across as a model professional, clearly disappointed but fully accepting of what happened and the need for the team to bring both cars home safely in 3rd and 4th.

Great points interestingly Vettel seem to have a little dig at Rosberg imo, when he said we aren't best friends we are professionals.

As for Vettel, its like webber said nothing will said, You can do it as many times as you want but saying sorry doesnt make it right, the only thing that will, is if the same situation arises again and lets Webber past him. Knowing him Vettel will in a position where they are both racing and not under orders and where Webber is faster and Vettel will let him past and say we are even

 

[WalkerboyUK]

Best situation for Webber now is for him to find a new team for next year and then, if Seb is in a position to win title in Brazil, take him out....... Let it fester for a while, leaving Vettel to realise he now needs eyes in the back of his head!

On a more serious note, champions have to be ruthless. If this had been the penultimate race of the season with Vettel in the lead for the title and looking to secure it, no-one would have batted an eyelid at the move.
The problem is that it was early in the season where no-one is going to win the title, and he took matters into his own hands.
Not that there was much going around, but any lingering respect people had for Vettel went out the window this weekend.
I was trying to figure if there's any way to put the situation into any other sport.... and the only thing I can think is a vital penalty in a cup final, and 2 players fighting over who takes it. A bit like Dyer for Swansea the other week. It's petulant, but in F1 it's also slightly more dangerous!

The Mercedes tale is slightly different though as Rosberg stuck with team orders. There was no call for either drive to let the other pass and over the space of the season I'm sure it will balance out. Also, the points difference between 3rd & 4th is much smaller than 1st & 2nd, so easier to overcome across the remaining races.

 

[duffman22]

Everyone in F1 know him to be a douche and a ruthless arsehole, I heard this first hand from the guys on my course, one who works for force India and another who works for another team.

As someone who knows a considerable amount of people who have been working in Formula 1 for 10 years or more I can also say that lots of the people who have met and worked with Vettel have said that he is a genuinely nice bloke (lots of the pundits before yesterday have also said likewise). He has shown a ruthless streak on the track from time to time but you need an element of that to be successful in F1 and lots of drivers have conducted themselves far worse than what he did yesterday.

We can argue as to whether we think he was a **** for doing what he did (personally I hate team orders and seeing the top 4 cars cruise home in order was the last thing I wanted to see but I do agree with parts of what you said above). However the fact of the matter is that a lot of F1 fans (particularly British F1 fans) don't like Vettel purely because he has dominated the sport the last three years. He has become the pantomime villain. Some of the groans and boos I heard from the crowd when he overtook at Silverstone last year were ridiculous. If it has been the other way round (and Webber hasn't always been as accommodating to Vettel as people are making out) then I doubt there would have been such a witch-hunt.

 

[Gassin's finest]

While I agree that what Vettel was sneaky and dishonest; taking advantage of Webber's sticking to team orders; I also don't really approve of race orders, and the racers should race. If it had been allowed then Rosberg would have finished 3rd. Also formula 1 is repleat with great drivers who won via ruthless behaviour. Senna was an absolute sod; check out how he took out Prost, knowing that if Prost DNF then he'd win the title:

 

[Montasura]

While I agree that what Vettel was sneaky and dishonest; taking advantage of Webber's sticking to team orders; I also don't really approve of race orders, and the racers should race. If it had been allowed then Rosberg would have finished 3rd. Also formula 1 is repleat with great drivers who won via ruthless behaviour. Senna was an absolute sod; check out how he took out Prost, knowing that if Prost DNF then he'd win the title:

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that they should be allowed to race, but the simple fact is that team orders are there and the drivers need to stick by them.

And I disagree that Rosberg would have finished 3rd if allowed. Lets not forget that Ross Brawn clearly told him that the only reason Lewis was going slower than him was because he had been ordered to. Prior to their orders Lewis was putting in better lap times than Rosberg consistently. He was a good few seconds clear of rosberg until he was ordered to turn it down to save fuel. There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have remained a few seconds clear had there not been any team orders.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that they should be allowed to race, but the simple fact is that team orders are there and the drivers need to stick by them.

And I disagree that Rosberg would have finished 3rd if allowed. Lets not forget that Ross Brawn clearly told him that the only reason Lewis was going slower than him was because he had been ordered to. Prior to their orders Lewis was putting in better lap times than Rosberg consistently. He was a good few seconds clear of rosberg until he was ordered to turn it down to save fuel. There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have remained a few seconds clear had there not been any team orders.

And I would agree with that. I say that I don't think team orders should exist, but they do and therefore they have to abide by them. You can't really say for certain how the Rosberg/Hamilton scenario would have unfolded, suffice to say that Hamilton felt that his third was hollow and that Rosberg probably would have taken him eventually.

 

[duffman22]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/14145893

Interesting.

 

[chinaman]

F-1 is not as interesting as before and if they don't do something ( I don't know what ), its appeal will wear out.

 

[Gassin's finest]

F-1 is not as interesting as before and if they don't do something ( I don't know what ), its appeal will wear out.

I don't know, it's alot better than it was 10 years ago when Ferrari dominated through sheer technology. The recent season where Vettel won his first title was one of the best seasons of F1 I'd seen since the days of Senna and Mansell.

 

[Green Samot]

F-1 is not as interesting as before and if they don't do something ( I don't know what ), its appeal will wear out.

When is before? I think it has been fantastic.

I must admit though, the improved coverage over the last 5-10 years has helped greatly. I remember when the cameras would just follow the leader no matter what else was happening in the race.

 

[Liquidator]

When is before? I think it has been fantastic.

I must admit though, the improved coverage over the last 5-10 years has helped greatly. I remember when the cameras would just follow the leader no matter what else was happening in the race.

Yeah, that was in the days when local directors would follow their local hero or favourite, missing some classic battling for say second or third place and concentrating on their man's pit stop. Used to infuriate me. I'm pretty sure it's all centrally produced by FOCA now.