The Match-Fixing/Doping/Corruption In Football Thread
- Thread starter thinktank
- Start date
gushayes11
Well-Known Member
- May 24, 2007
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Just watched it, murky world. Shocking what goes on around the world.
Syn_13
Fly On, Little Wing
- Jul 17, 2008
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The referee celebrating with the Nigerian Goalkeeper- shocking
You sure that isn't Suarez in disguise having a cheeky nibble?
spurs9
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
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You can't look too much into still pictures as they can catch a split second of movement and look completely different to what actually happened out of context.
The referee celebrating with the Nigerian Goalkeeper- shocking
onthetwo
Well-Known Member
- May 19, 2006
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Ionman34
SC Supporter
- Jun 1, 2011
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ERO
The artist f.k.a Steffen Freund - Mentalist ****
- Jun 8, 2003
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The referee celebrating with the Nigerian Goalkeeper- shocking
I'm pretty sure this is the most common way to catch out match fixers. When they openly celebrate their fix on the world cup stage.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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What's this to do with match fixing?
Syn_13
Fly On, Little Wing
- Jul 17, 2008
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Not really match fixing but crap nonetheless. It's a shame because I've always had a soft spot for Ghana. Made a few Ghanaian friends a while back during the 2006 WC. The violent behaviour isn't what annoys me the most about this though. Muntari and KPB have always been idiots. The second bit about the players boycotting unless they get paid is the bit that galls me.
Firstly, I don't see why you should get paid for representing your national team. It's an honour, and you're picking up enough dosh as it is from your club. You'll get everything paid for you while you're out there and still picking up your club wage so it's not like you're out of pocket. Secondly, it's pretty heinous that a country that doesn't have a lot of money to begin with has to throw millions at footballers just to incentivise them to actually play.
thinktank
Hmmm...
- Sep 28, 2004
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CornerPinDreamer
up in the cheap seats
- Aug 20, 2013
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African nations not paying players and involved in match fixing. I am shocked. Utterly shocked.
the match fixing could be straight out of the US baseball playbook
Well, the "Black Sox scandal" was completely justified of them, IMO. Ownership wasnt fulfilling its duties. They were right to throw the game. Also Pete Rose never gambled on games that his team played in. So not exactly similar.
CornerPinDreamer
up in the cheap seats
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US fans convoluting to defend the purity of their sports. I'm shocked. Utterly shocked
beats1
Well-Known Member
- Feb 22, 2010
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The thing is like with Togo this is the biggest pay day in their life and rather the money going to corrupt officials that make a killing off the players that got them there, the players deserve a pay day.
- Jun 27, 2004
- 5,638
- 1,509
- Staff
- #19
Thanks thinktank for altering the title of the thread slightly. I have a few things to bring up which I would like to hear people's views on, as I am honestly very suspicious that we aren't quite watching what we believe we are. One thing I will do is bring up past cases of proven match-fixing, doping etc to suggest things like how it could be done, when it could be done, and even why a person may be motivated to do it. I always make a little mental note of strange/suspicious things that happen as at some point there might be more context.
2010:
One fair point is that there is no video of him saying this. There is the possibility (a small one in my opinion) that his “connections” claim has been taken out of context significantly enough to alter the claim. Assuming he was trying to imply a possible fixed draw, I cannot think of a logical reason for this that involves Wenger NOT believing a fixed draw is a possibility. If the comments were for gamesmanship then it only follows that he was trying to dissuade the fixers from pairing Arsenal with Barcelona by making it suspicious if they did.
Anyway, I would like to demonstrate that Wenger has good reason to think that Platini hates him through a story that you may not have heard or thought about in this way. I also think this story provides lots of other interesting points.
For 3 years I wondered about that quotation until Arsenal played Marseille last season and I read this article.
I had known that there had been corruption in the French league, but never realised the extent of it. I definitely didn’t know that Wenger had been so directly involved. So I started reading more about it and it was like when I read Harry Potter 3 and realised that this shit went way back. Here is the story told through old news articles.
Subsequently the players in question go to their manager and tell him what has happened. He calls the authorities. The manager is then offered money to change his story, but declines and also tells the authorities about that. Obviously most people were happy to take the money:
So at this point, Boro Primorac is the only thing stopping the perpetrators from getting away with their crime. His evidence also relies mainly on the fact he was offered money to keep quiet, NOT that he had any evidence of the match-fixing, which must have been extra annoying for the corrupters. He continues to testify and brings the whole thing down, becoming ostracised from French football as a result.
An obvious point to make here is this: IF there is some kind of conspiracy going on, I can guarantee all of you that one man who is not being told about it is Arsene Wenger. He is harbouring the fugitive. There aren't many people in football that you can guarantee WOULD tell on you, but Boro Primorac is one.
What I also find quite interesting is that Boro Primorac and Wenger have been inseparable ever since. When Wenger left Monaco not long after the scandal and went to manage (or hide?) in Japan, he immediately took Primorac. Now on the one hand he may just admire Primorac’s honesty. However, and this is the first bit of speculation on my part, I think his actions could also be seen as arising out of guilt, as my suggestion is that Wenger is a key reason that Primorac continued to testify. Wenger had a lot of interest in seeing the conspiracy revealed. Firstly it meant that his team Monaco qualified for the Champions League. Secondly, Monaco had finished runner up to Marseille in the previous two seasons. Essentially, Marseille were the reason that Wenger had only been able to win the league in his first season, and were the reason he had only won a single trophy in 5 seasons following that (although he did manage to win that trophy against them.)
Here is another perspective that seemed interesting to me.
I was only 7 or 8 when this was going on so I can’t really comment on the accuracy of the above. But the basic claim is that Marseille was a club of the people and of the common man, whereas PSG and Monaco were at the opposite end of the scale.
I find this interesting for two reasons. The first is that Tapie, who also held political positions of power, seemed to see the domination of Marseille as being a component in his political vision. Secondly, I think there are plenty of similar relationships between clubs which could be an interesting point of discussion. For example why did Barcelona want the signing of Neymar to appear as cheap as possible? There are many good reasons, but I think that one is because of their political contrast to Real Madrid, in a similar sense to the dynamic described above between PSG/Monaco/Marseillle.
Seeing as I also think that Spain’s recent dominance is questionable in some ways, mainly the possibility of doping, I find the comparisons between their economy now and France’s as described in the contemporary quotation above very interesting. Similarly, the Spanish national team’s footballing hegemony represents one of the few sources of civic pride for the population. I think we can begin to tackle the issue of motivation for match fixing from this perspective.
Another point to consider is which characters currently in the game sound remarkably like the 1993 description of Tapie above? A personal crusade for European glory? An “obsession?” A huge investment? Constant changing of coaching and playing personnel? When combined with a demonstrably immoral past and/or an active political career I think these are the hallmarks of likely corruption.
To quickly bring it back to Wenger/Primorac I want to quickly mention Platini. Personally I think he was probably slightly more hurt than most, as a stain on French football was also a stain on his legacy as the best French footballer of all time. Additionally, just a year earlier he had to step down as manager of France after failing to qualify from their group in Euro 92. Now this is a highly speculative point, but I would wager than the year between mid 92 and mid 93 when the scandal broke is probably one of the worst of Platini’s life. He probably felt a large amount of resentment towards Primorac and perhaps even Wenger, if not for encouraging Primorac then for harbouring him. Platini had just caused France embarrassment in the Euros, so it would also be a convenient opportunity for him to project his embarrassment onto Primorac, for having caused the nation even greater embarrassment.
Platini also has a demonstrable lack of morals, having been involved in a slush fund at Juventus for which he later had to pay vast amounts of unpaid tax. It is probably the case that a man with Tapie’s political aspirations would make a great effort to befriend a man like Platini. I haven’t been able to find any opinion of Tapie by Platini prior to the scandal. It probably exists in French and I would guess that they are slightly more positive than his statements below, AFTER the scandal:
So he confirms he knows Tapie, and implies that he socialises with him. This is what he says after the scandal breaks. What are the chances that a year earlier he would have had much more positive things to say? I would love to hear Tapie talking to Platini about Primorac, which I see no reason to think has never happened.
So to bring this back to the original Wenger quotation, I can understand his paranoia. He has been on the receiving end of match-fixing in the past; he has openly embraced those who blow the whistle on match-fixing; he has suffered a series of fixture draws and questionable decisions in favour of Barcelona, and then he has correctly predicted that they will again be drawn against Barcelona.
More than anything I just love the idea of Platini sitting down and laughing to himself about the fact Arsenal have to play Barcelona again, and the fact that they definitely won’t win because of the referee.
The reason I wanted to start with this story instead of the doping thing is that I think it has so many elements to it in terms of the types of characters involved, the methods of fixing, the reasons for fixing, and also interesting possibilities in terms of the political side of things. I’m thinking that we can assess this issue by looking backwards at proven cases and then project that into the future to look for possible cases.
Obviously the issue remains of whether a draw can be fixed, and how many people would have to be in on it in order for the plan to be successful. Personally I am open to the idea but have yet to see a plausible explanation. I can't find a video of the draw which Wenger is talking about, but it happened on 17th December 2010 if anybody else can. It was the same draw we got Milan.
Also if you notice anything strange then I think it would be a good idea to post it as later on something new might be revealed which would explain it. For example Pellegrini’s funny business regarding finishing top of the group in the champions league.
Another interesting point might be the precarious political situation in Brazil and how that may affect any possible chances of dishonesty.
2010:
One fair point is that there is no video of him saying this. There is the possibility (a small one in my opinion) that his “connections” claim has been taken out of context significantly enough to alter the claim. Assuming he was trying to imply a possible fixed draw, I cannot think of a logical reason for this that involves Wenger NOT believing a fixed draw is a possibility. If the comments were for gamesmanship then it only follows that he was trying to dissuade the fixers from pairing Arsenal with Barcelona by making it suspicious if they did.
Anyway, I would like to demonstrate that Wenger has good reason to think that Platini hates him through a story that you may not have heard or thought about in this way. I also think this story provides lots of other interesting points.
For 3 years I wondered about that quotation until Arsenal played Marseille last season and I read this article.
I had known that there had been corruption in the French league, but never realised the extent of it. I definitely didn’t know that Wenger had been so directly involved. So I started reading more about it and it was like when I read Harry Potter 3 and realised that this shit went way back. Here is the story told through old news articles.
Subsequently the players in question go to their manager and tell him what has happened. He calls the authorities. The manager is then offered money to change his story, but declines and also tells the authorities about that. Obviously most people were happy to take the money:
So at this point, Boro Primorac is the only thing stopping the perpetrators from getting away with their crime. His evidence also relies mainly on the fact he was offered money to keep quiet, NOT that he had any evidence of the match-fixing, which must have been extra annoying for the corrupters. He continues to testify and brings the whole thing down, becoming ostracised from French football as a result.
An obvious point to make here is this: IF there is some kind of conspiracy going on, I can guarantee all of you that one man who is not being told about it is Arsene Wenger. He is harbouring the fugitive. There aren't many people in football that you can guarantee WOULD tell on you, but Boro Primorac is one.
What I also find quite interesting is that Boro Primorac and Wenger have been inseparable ever since. When Wenger left Monaco not long after the scandal and went to manage (or hide?) in Japan, he immediately took Primorac. Now on the one hand he may just admire Primorac’s honesty. However, and this is the first bit of speculation on my part, I think his actions could also be seen as arising out of guilt, as my suggestion is that Wenger is a key reason that Primorac continued to testify. Wenger had a lot of interest in seeing the conspiracy revealed. Firstly it meant that his team Monaco qualified for the Champions League. Secondly, Monaco had finished runner up to Marseille in the previous two seasons. Essentially, Marseille were the reason that Wenger had only been able to win the league in his first season, and were the reason he had only won a single trophy in 5 seasons following that (although he did manage to win that trophy against them.)
Here is another perspective that seemed interesting to me.
I was only 7 or 8 when this was going on so I can’t really comment on the accuracy of the above. But the basic claim is that Marseille was a club of the people and of the common man, whereas PSG and Monaco were at the opposite end of the scale.
I find this interesting for two reasons. The first is that Tapie, who also held political positions of power, seemed to see the domination of Marseille as being a component in his political vision. Secondly, I think there are plenty of similar relationships between clubs which could be an interesting point of discussion. For example why did Barcelona want the signing of Neymar to appear as cheap as possible? There are many good reasons, but I think that one is because of their political contrast to Real Madrid, in a similar sense to the dynamic described above between PSG/Monaco/Marseillle.
Seeing as I also think that Spain’s recent dominance is questionable in some ways, mainly the possibility of doping, I find the comparisons between their economy now and France’s as described in the contemporary quotation above very interesting. Similarly, the Spanish national team’s footballing hegemony represents one of the few sources of civic pride for the population. I think we can begin to tackle the issue of motivation for match fixing from this perspective.
Another point to consider is which characters currently in the game sound remarkably like the 1993 description of Tapie above? A personal crusade for European glory? An “obsession?” A huge investment? Constant changing of coaching and playing personnel? When combined with a demonstrably immoral past and/or an active political career I think these are the hallmarks of likely corruption.
To quickly bring it back to Wenger/Primorac I want to quickly mention Platini. Personally I think he was probably slightly more hurt than most, as a stain on French football was also a stain on his legacy as the best French footballer of all time. Additionally, just a year earlier he had to step down as manager of France after failing to qualify from their group in Euro 92. Now this is a highly speculative point, but I would wager than the year between mid 92 and mid 93 when the scandal broke is probably one of the worst of Platini’s life. He probably felt a large amount of resentment towards Primorac and perhaps even Wenger, if not for encouraging Primorac then for harbouring him. Platini had just caused France embarrassment in the Euros, so it would also be a convenient opportunity for him to project his embarrassment onto Primorac, for having caused the nation even greater embarrassment.
Platini also has a demonstrable lack of morals, having been involved in a slush fund at Juventus for which he later had to pay vast amounts of unpaid tax. It is probably the case that a man with Tapie’s political aspirations would make a great effort to befriend a man like Platini. I haven’t been able to find any opinion of Tapie by Platini prior to the scandal. It probably exists in French and I would guess that they are slightly more positive than his statements below, AFTER the scandal:
So he confirms he knows Tapie, and implies that he socialises with him. This is what he says after the scandal breaks. What are the chances that a year earlier he would have had much more positive things to say? I would love to hear Tapie talking to Platini about Primorac, which I see no reason to think has never happened.
So to bring this back to the original Wenger quotation, I can understand his paranoia. He has been on the receiving end of match-fixing in the past; he has openly embraced those who blow the whistle on match-fixing; he has suffered a series of fixture draws and questionable decisions in favour of Barcelona, and then he has correctly predicted that they will again be drawn against Barcelona.
More than anything I just love the idea of Platini sitting down and laughing to himself about the fact Arsenal have to play Barcelona again, and the fact that they definitely won’t win because of the referee.
The reason I wanted to start with this story instead of the doping thing is that I think it has so many elements to it in terms of the types of characters involved, the methods of fixing, the reasons for fixing, and also interesting possibilities in terms of the political side of things. I’m thinking that we can assess this issue by looking backwards at proven cases and then project that into the future to look for possible cases.
Obviously the issue remains of whether a draw can be fixed, and how many people would have to be in on it in order for the plan to be successful. Personally I am open to the idea but have yet to see a plausible explanation. I can't find a video of the draw which Wenger is talking about, but it happened on 17th December 2010 if anybody else can. It was the same draw we got Milan.
Also if you notice anything strange then I think it would be a good idea to post it as later on something new might be revealed which would explain it. For example Pellegrini’s funny business regarding finishing top of the group in the champions league.
Another interesting point might be the precarious political situation in Brazil and how that may affect any possible chances of dishonesty.
Marty
Audere est farce
- Mar 10, 2005
- 40,189
- 63,966
Big necrobump.
What I'd like to know is how can anyone genuinely take their wife's medicine by mistake? It's the dog ate my homework of bullshit excuses.
www.skysports.com
What I'd like to know is how can anyone genuinely take their wife's medicine by mistake? It's the dog ate my homework of bullshit excuses.
Andre Onana: Ajax goalkeeper handed 12-month suspension for doping violation
Andre Onana failed a doping test in October; Ajax will appeal the 12-month suspension at the Court of Arbitration for Sport, claiming the doping offence was committed unwittingly; Onana said it was the result of human mistake
