The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[LexingtonSpurs]

I must be the one Tottenham fan that doesn't really give a shit whether we do or don't make Top 4. I fucking HATE that it's become a measure of success in its own right, when its in fact an utterly meaningless "achievement". I think our current obsession with it is symptomatic of our wider mentality issue, where we're not actually bothered about winning anything, we're just happy to be "in the conversation" with the clubs that do. we've become exactly what we used to mock Arsenal for.

it doesn't matter whether we finish 3rd, 4th, or 5th IMO, there are still things Pochettino will need to address about his own managerial approach if we're to move forward under him. I just hope his head isn't buried as deep in the sand as some of his blindly fanatical supporters on here.

I can't stress strongly enough - the financial incentive for making CL is so strong. The only stronger incentive - is to avoid relegation. To suggest it is a "meaningless" achievement is to ignore the realities of modern football.

We are a victim of our success - but that is not a bad thing. Expectations should be high - so high, in fact, that even failure will have in it an echo of glory. Poch does not want to be Arsenal - where finishing 4th every year is an achievement - he wants to win the league. And right now - this year - we are in a precarious situation in terms of building towards that goal. We need to upgrade the squad, but to do so, we need the revenue from CL. We don't yet have the advantages of a full new stadium - that should come over the next few years - but only if the club continues to challenge for top honors.

 

[slartibartfast]

He's raised everyone's expectations by constantly over achieving with the tools at his disposal. Eventually this has to end, or you start to behave like a top 4 club across every area. We should be grateful that he has managed to make us competitive for top 4 over the last 3 years, as this is basically remarkable considering the financial constraints he has to deal with

Not sure I agree with over achieving. In his time we've had the 2 best full backs, probably 2 best center backs, 1 of the best goalkeepers, 2 of the best midfielders in Europe in Erikson and Alli and a twice golden boot winner in Kane.
Now if you cant get top 4 or win anything with that at your disposal I think people have a right to question whats going on.

 

[PLTuck]

Not sure I agree with over achieving. In his time we've had the 2 best full backs, probably 2 best center backs, 1 of the best goalkeepers, 2 of the best midfielders in Europe in Erikson and Alli and a twice golden boot winner in Kane.
Now if you cant get top 4 or win anything with that at your disposal I think people have a right to question whats going on.

I kind of agree with the sentiment, but then it could be argued that Poch is the reason that many of these players have become as good as they are. I can't see Harry being a double golden boot winner under AVB or Tim Sherwood for example.

 

[WiganSpur]

He's raised everyone's expectations by constantly over achieving with the tools at his disposal. Eventually this has to end, or you start to behave like a top 4 club across every area. We should be grateful that he has managed to make us competitive for top 4 over the last 3 years, as this is basically remarkable considering the financial constraints he has to deal with

I don't think he's ever overachieved as such.

Just the past few seasons (perhaps not this one?) he's actually improved the players he's had. A lot of these players were previously very average and now they're really top players. This squad isn't overachieving now.

 

[thfc1973]

We're fucked if we don't make top 4. Top players who could be leaving, will definitely leave without CL football.

The people repeating what Poch said about us being ahead of the project and now have unreasonable expectations are missing the point.......
You don't sit back on your laurels in the premier league and say okay in 3 years time when we should be at this point expect to fight for the title, expect to fight for a trophy. No. You say, okay if we're at this point now we've managed to steal ahead of Arsenal and the rest so we'd better make the most of the situation and lay the foundation for continued improvement to ensure you remain in the top 4 consistently, and fight for the title now when it's a realistic possibility, rather than accept regression, accept that top 4 shouldn't be or goal every year... No. I don't agree with this stupid way of thinking. It's the thinking of a small club fan who is happy with occasional success. 10 years since our list trophy is good for them.. But not for me. I demand success more often than that.
Since our last FA cup trophy, we've only won 2 cups. In that same period Arsenal and Chelsea have won something like 12 and 16! City and Utd handfuls too. Even Liverpool have done better.

Keep talking about being ahead of the game so it's not realistic to expect the title now, a trophy now, and not sacking a manager when we aren't winning then don't expect 2 more trophies (crap ones too) for slither 26 years!!!!!

Poch has clearly got us to another level. There's no doubt about that. But we have got to understand that this is where we should have been ages ago. To say it's okay to have a year or two more going backwards is mental. You allow Arsenal to take your rightfully earned spot again. Why?
We are on the same level field now. We have a big stadium.
You allow Liverpool to replace us? Why? Have they won a title in the last decade or 2?
Why the hell should I sit back and allow my team to sink back into the oblivion that is mid table for another 2 or 3 decades..? Just cos people keep whining about us being ahead of the project?
We're not ahead of any project!!! We're decades behind. We've managed to steal a March on those who have allowed regression. Now is our time to push on to the next level by actually winning the title or a decent cup to spur us on.
Allow a year or 2 of not fighting for the title and see how far behind we will have fallen. Then come back and complain then when it's too late. That's when you'll be begging for a better manager than Poch but it'll be too late as we won't be an attractive option anymore. Cos all the rest of the other sleeping giant clubs will have a stadium to compete, a great group of young players to compete.

We need to move up to the next level now to stand any chance of winning. Not wait for us to be in line with the so-called timeline of the project.

 

[PLTuck]

We're fucked if we don't make top 4. Top players who could be leaving, will definitely leave without CL football.

The people repeating what Poch said about us being ahead of the project and now have unreasonable expectations are missing the point.......
You don't sit back on your laurels in the premier league and say okay in 3 years time when we should be at this point expect to fight for the title, expect to fight for a trophy. No. You say, okay if we're at this point now we've managed to steal ahead of Arsenal and the rest so we'd better make the most of the situation and lay the foundation for continued improvement to ensure you remain in the top 4 consistently, and fight for the title now when it's a realistic possibility, rather than accept regression, accept that top 4 shouldn't be or goal every year... No. I don't agree with this stupid way of thinking. It's the thinking of a small club fan who is happy with occasional success. 10 years since our list trophy is good for them.. But not for me. I demand success more often than that.
Since our last FA cup trophy, we've only won 2 cups. In that same period Arsenal and Chelsea have won something like 12 and 16! City and Utd handfuls too. Even Liverpool have done better.

Keep talking about being ahead of the game so it's not realistic to expect the title now, a trophy now, and not sacking a manager when we aren't winning then don't expect 2 more trophies (crap ones too) for slither 26 years!!!!!

Poch has clearly got us to another level. There's no doubt about that. But we have got to understand that this is where we should have been ages ago. To say it's okay to have a year or two more going backwards is mental. You allow Arsenal to take your rightfully earned spot again. Why?
We are on the same level field now. We have a big stadium.
You allow Liverpool to replace us? Why? Have they won a title in the last decade or 2?
Why the hell should I sit back and allow my team to sink back into the oblivion that is mid table for another 2 or 3 decades..? Just cos people keep whining about us being ahead of the project?
We're not ahead of any project!!! We're decades behind. We've managed to steal a March on those who have allowed regression. Now is our time to push on to the next level by actually winning the title or a decent cup to spur us on.
Allow a year or 2 of not fighting for the title and see how far behind we will have fallen. Then come back and complain then when it's too late. That's when you'll be begging for a better manager than Poch but it'll be too late as we won't be an attractive option anymore. Cos all the rest of the other sleeping giant clubs will have a stadium to compete, a great group of young players to compete.

We need to move up to the next level now to stand any chance of winning. Not wait for us to be in line with the so-called timeline of the project.

On what basis?

 

[Gb160]

On what basis?

Staggeringly entitled bullshit.
Would be at home on ArsefaceTV.

 

[shelfboy68]

We're fucked if we don't make top 4. Top players who could be leaving, will definitely leave without CL football.

The people repeating what Poch said about us being ahead of the project and now have unreasonable expectations are missing the point.......
You don't sit back on your laurels in the premier league and say okay in 3 years time when we should be at this point expect to fight for the title, expect to fight for a trophy. No. You say, okay if we're at this point now we've managed to steal ahead of Arsenal and the rest so we'd better make the most of the situation and lay the foundation for continued improvement to ensure you remain in the top 4 consistently, and fight for the title now when it's a realistic possibility, rather than accept regression, accept that top 4 shouldn't be or goal every year... No. I don't agree with this stupid way of thinking. It's the thinking of a small club fan who is happy with occasional success. 10 years since our list trophy is good for them.. But not for me. I demand success more often than that.
Since our last FA cup trophy, we've only won 2 cups. In that same period Arsenal and Chelsea have won something like 12 and 16! City and Utd handfuls too. Even Liverpool have done better.

Keep talking about being ahead of the game so it's not realistic to expect the title now, a trophy now, and not sacking a manager when we aren't winning then don't expect 2 more trophies (crap ones too) for slither 26 years!!!!!

Poch has clearly got us to another level. There's no doubt about that. But we have got to understand that this is where we should have been ages ago. To say it's okay to have a year or two more going backwards is mental. You allow Arsenal to take your rightfully earned spot again. Why?
We are on the same level field now. We have a big stadium.
You allow Liverpool to replace us? Why? Have they won a title in the last decade or 2?
Why the hell should I sit back and allow my team to sink back into the oblivion that is mid table for another 2 or 3 decades..? Just cos people keep whining about us being ahead of the project?
We're not ahead of any project!!! We're decades behind. We've managed to steal a March on those who have allowed regression. Now is our time to push on to the next level by actually winning the title or a decent cup to spur us on.
Allow a year or 2 of not fighting for the title and see how far behind we will have fallen. Then come back and complain then when it's too late. That's when you'll be begging for a better manager than Poch but it'll be too late as we won't be an attractive option anymore. Cos all the rest of the other sleeping giant clubs will have a stadium to compete, a great group of young players to compete.

We need to move up to the next level now to stand any chance of winning. Not wait for us to be in line with the so-called timeline of the project.

Do you personally know what the timeline is because I don't and unless your in the inner circle you won't.
The club has made great strides in recent years to compete and to a large degree we are but to get to the next level which I presume you mean winning the title will require a significant transfer fund and a little luck.

 

[RichieS]

On what basis?

I often think the basis for statements such as that one is the fact that Arsenal and Manchester United have unquestionably been the dominant sides in English football since the formation of the Premier League and yet, way back then, weren't so different to us. Unfortunately the Premier League happened at exactly the wrong time due to the mess that Scholar left us in and Sugar's battle with Venables and we didn't capitalise on the brave new world like those teams did.

When making such an argument it is convenient to forget that Everton, Villa and Leeds were all teams of similar status as well and would kill to be in our current state.

 

[slartibartfast]

This time next week we'll either be over the moon that we've achieved cl success despite Wembley and the recent games will be forgotten... Or we'll finish 5th having chucked it away at the last minute.
Fine margins.
I think.Poch needs to drum into the team how important this Newcastle game is. Its a fkin cup final. Would we lose to Newcastle at home in a final? I dont think so.
Thats what annoyed me with Wbrom line up. That was also like a final. Would Poch have put that team and formation out in a final? I dont think so.

 

[slartibartfast]

I kind of agree with the sentiment, but then it could be argued that Poch is the reason that many of these players have become as good as they are. I can't see Harry being a double golden boot winner under AVB or Tim Sherwood for example.

Maybe. We'll never know. I'm not calling for Pochs head lol. Be devastated if he left.
However I think if we went in for a new manager, these days, given where we are now and players and new stadium, I think/hope we'd be aiming at a better level of manager that those 2 knob heads.

 

[WiganSpur]

I think we'd have to call off any hopes of winning the league for a couple of years if we didn't finish 4th as inevitably players will leave and it will take time to rebuild. I doubt Poch would have the squad he wanted within one season if we needed to replace Toby, Rose and Dembele, along with others (Eriksen or Alli etc.).

If we can manage to get over the line though there's still a chance we can do it but the recruitment has to be right.

 

[greaves]

We're fucked if we don't make top 4. Top players who could be leaving, will definitely leave without CL football.

The people repeating what Poch said about us being ahead of the project and now have unreasonable expectations are missing the point.......
You don't sit back on your laurels in the premier league and say okay in 3 years time when we should be at this point expect to fight for the title, expect to fight for a trophy. No. You say, okay if we're at this point now we've managed to steal ahead of Arsenal and the rest so we'd better make the most of the situation and lay the foundation for continued improvement to ensure you remain in the top 4 consistently, and fight for the title now when it's a realistic possibility, rather than accept regression, accept that top 4 shouldn't be or goal every year... No. I don't agree with this stupid way of thinking. It's the thinking of a small club fan who is happy with occasional success. 10 years since our list trophy is good for them.. But not for me. I demand success more often than that.
Since our last FA cup trophy, we've only won 2 cups. In that same period Arsenal and Chelsea have won something like 12 and 16! City and Utd handfuls too. Even Liverpool have done better.

Keep talking about being ahead of the game so it's not realistic to expect the title now, a trophy now, and not sacking a manager when we aren't winning then don't expect 2 more trophies (crap ones too) for slither 26 years!!!!!

Poch has clearly got us to another level. There's no doubt about that. But we have got to understand that this is where we should have been ages ago. To say it's okay to have a year or two more going backwards is mental. You allow Arsenal to take your rightfully earned spot again. Why?
We are on the same level field now. We have a big stadium.
You allow Liverpool to replace us? Why? Have they won a title in the last decade or 2?
Why the hell should I sit back and allow my team to sink back into the oblivion that is mid table for another 2 or 3 decades..? Just cos people keep whining about us being ahead of the project?
We're not ahead of any project!!! We're decades behind. We've managed to steal a March on those who have allowed regression. Now is our time to push on to the next level by actually winning the title or a decent cup to spur us on.
Allow a year or 2 of not fighting for the title and see how far behind we will have fallen. Then come back and complain then when it's too late. That's when you'll be begging for a better manager than Poch but it'll be too late as we won't be an attractive option anymore. Cos all the rest of the other sleeping giant clubs will have a stadium to compete, a great group of young players to compete.

We need to move up to the next level now to stand any chance of winning. Not wait for us to be in line with the so-called timeline of the project.

Fair enough.
But I'm not sure you or anyone else is in a position to 'demand'.

 

[Saoirse]

This time next week we'll either be over the moon that we've achieved cl success despite Wembley and the recent games will be forgotten... Or we'll finish 5th having chucked it away at the last minute.
Fine margins.
I think.Poch needs to drum into the team how important this Newcastle game is. Its a fkin cup final. Would we lose to Newcastle at home in a final? I dont think so.
Thats what annoyed me with Wbrom line up. That was also like a final. Would Poch have put that team and formation out in a final? I dont think so.

The thing is that several people lambasted him for NOT going with Toby in a 3-at-the-back for the semi-final. I don't think that was the problem against WBA at all - in fact Toby and Jan often being deep in opposition territory seemed to result in more pressure for them, not less.

 

[tiger666]

I think we'd have to call off any hopes of winning the league for a couple of years if we didn't finish 4th as inevitably players will leave and it will take time to rebuild.

I think that would depend how long we were out of the CL. It may be for just one season. I don't see Levy entertaining a clear out if we don't get top four this season, even if there was a mass handing in of transfer requests as some are predicting.

 

[slartibartfast]

The thing is that several people lambasted him for NOT going with Toby in a 3-at-the-back for the semi-final. I don't think that was the problem against WBA at all - in fact Toby and Jan often being deep in opposition territory seemed to result in more pressure for them, not less.

They may well have done. And that may be the best way to go going forwards. But making those wholesale changes when you only have 3 games left and are in a must win game is imo a mistake.

 

[Gb160]

They may well have done. And that may be the best way to go going forwards. But making those wholesale changes when you only have 3 games left and are in a must win game is imo a mistake.

But that wasn't a must win game though, I keep reading this.
It would've been good to win it, but that's it.
The next one isn't even must win really, it's must not lose.

 

[Donki]

But that wasn't a must win game though, I keep reading this.
It would've been good to win it, but that's it.
The next one isn't even must win really, it's must not lose.

Come on in the position we are in all the games are must win, you don't wait to the last minute for it to be a must win, it just invites more pressure which is something we really don't need. Technically your right of course.

 

[Gb160]

Come on in the position we are in all the games are must win, you don't wait to the last minute for it to be a must win, it just invites more pressure which is something we really don't need. Technically your right of course.

I know what youre saying, we really couldve done with winning vs WBA, at this time of the season all games are really fucking important....but i think 'must win' has a pretty unambiguous meaning, or is this just the internet completely changing the meanings of words again?

 

[spids]

I must be the one Tottenham fan that doesn't really give a shit whether we do or don't make Top 4. I fucking HATE that it's become a measure of success in its own right, when its in fact an utterly meaningless "achievement". I think our current obsession with it is symptomatic of our wider mentality issue, where we're not actually bothered about winning anything, we're just happy to be "in the conversation" with the clubs that do. we've become exactly what we used to mock Arsenal for.

it doesn't matter whether we finish 3rd, 4th, or 5th IMO, there are still things Pochettino will need to address about his own managerial approach if we're to move forward under him. I just hope his head isn't buried as deep in the sand as some of his blindly fanatical supporters on here.

I get where you are coming from but that is a really naive statement in the modern era. If we don't have CL football then the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Vertonghen, Dele will be much more likely to move on, as would Poch - who won't be short of offers. Arsenal and Chelsea (assuming the finish 5th) will find it a lot more difficult to attract top drawer players (it will be easier for us to do so) with the knock on effect of making next season 'easier' for us. Top 4 is essential for our 'project'. What is also important is that Levy finds the funds to upgrade our squad form top 3/4 to top 1/2. This means spending big on players Poch wants early in the window. Easier said than done.