The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Mr Pink]

But the hard work comes from belief and being inspired by a vision. Players used to be evangelical about Poch and they would run for him all day, but they've done that for years and missed out on glory. It's natural that some of them are questioning things. You also add to that we have more players who are older and carry niggles and injuries. All of it adds up to why Poch was screaming for a total clear out in the summer. He saw the way the wind was blowing.

Don't really agree, hard work comes from having the desire to put it in.

Now I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, probably multiple problems, but it's clear there's a drop off in effort and energy levels.

You don't need to be high in confidence to play in a committed way.

In fact, to build confidence, we should be going back to basics - being hard to beat, stop giving up so many chances and leaking goals.

Setting the team up accordingly, with everyone putting in a real shift for the collective - and build from there.

 

[danielneeds]

Yep, two seasons ago MoPo's slogan was "belief" and the players were fully behind his philosophy but I think he shot himself in the foot by some silly comments in his press Conference.

Clear out? Players we thought would go are still hanging around here and that includes Eriksen and Alderweireld. Just seems odd that they including Rose was not wanted by "big teams". Wanyama still here too. That's about 4 we kind of expected to leave. How can we clear out when we don't get offers or they don't accept them.

It's all to do with the price Levy was setting, though. If he said to Real, "You can have Eriksen for £50m,," maybe they would have come in. Similarly, if Rose was available cheap, I'm sure he would have had some offers. Toby for £25m was a headscratcher nobody came in. I guess the package his agent was looking for excluded a lot of clubs from making an offer.

 

[danielneeds]

Don't really agree, hard work comes from having the desire to put it in.

Now I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, probably multiple problems, but it's clear there's a drop off in effort and energy levels.

You don't need to be high in confidence to play in a committed way.

In fact, to build confidence, we should be going back to basics - being hard to beat, stop giving up so many chances and leaking goals.

Setting the team up accordingly, with everyone putting in a real shift for the collective - and build from there.

But if you have been putting that work in for years and not winning anything, why would you still put your body through that, when you can do less, still get paid, and still not win anything? That's what happens when players get older. They become more cynical and self-serving.

If you look at a lot of Poch's comments in this context, it all makes sense. I get a real feeling he's talking and they're not listening or doing the things he wants. It's driving him mad, and he faces a massive challenge to turn this situation around, in my opinion.

 

[dagraham]

I don’t think it’s just about hard work and intensity ( although it would certainly help as apart from the odd period here and there it’s been lacking for a while).

We have to be smart and make good decisions on the pitch as well. When despite playing poorly you find yourselves 2-0 up at a hostile ground a minute before half time, charging forward leaving acres of space is not the right thing to do. Similarly when 2 up in a NLD again a minute before HT, trying to dribble the ball out, then in the next phase of play trying a clever nutmeg pass giving up possession and then finally completely failing to clear on the edge of the box is again naive.

As Kane said, failing to learn from our mistakes is one of the things holding us back. And I don’t think any amount of hard work, running and intense training is going to solve it.

 

[C0YS]

Very interesting take on where it is going wrong ...

Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs Transfer News

Football Whispers has combed through the gossip columns and rumour mill to bring you the latest transfer stories concerning Tottenham Hotspur. Below you can

www.footballwhispers.com

There are just so many things wrong with the article. Firstly, we are always slow starters so you have to compare with the pool of last season, namely the first 5 games. Also, we have faced Man city and Arsenal in the first few games, which skewers the sample quite a lot.

1. 'our famous press' has been only used in phases for the last three seasons now. It's not a new thing and is not really our problem right now. Defensive organisation and our mentality at the start of games and when we hold onto a lead. Without a DM we are ineffective at blocking passes, I don't think its all down to pressing. Similarly, we tend to build up our pressing, so start with pressing a little before building that right up later on.

2. Kane's form hasn't dramatically dipped at all. In fact this is actually pretty good early season form for him. Normally he starts much more quietly. Lets actually break down his games.

Aston Villa - two goals, arguably motm.
Man City - quiet
Newcastle - Not so good
Arsenal - scored, solid not spectacular.
Palace - didn't score but great all round performance
Olympiacos - started well but faded. Decent but not spectacular. Won and scored a pen.

Current record 6 games 4 goals 1 assist

Assuming he plays 48 games, which he will if fit. On his current rate it would be

48 games 32 goals and 8 assists at a rate of 0.66 goals a game. Not as good as 16-18 Kane but still very good and the normal Kane strike rate.

His overall play has also been acceptable. He is finding the ball less, but this is largely down to the sample, and also us building up from the back mess, that at least now seems resolved.

Again, lets break this down.

Aston Villa - 40 touches 8 shots
Man City - 25 touches 1 shot
Newcastle - 29 touches 1 shot
Arsenal - 33 touches 3 shots
CP - 29 touches 1 shot.
Olympiacos - 35 touches 4 shots

Now CP is a bit of an outlier. We were 4 nil up and stopped attacking after. If you remove Man city and CP you end with 4 shots a game. This is more or less par with Kane's historical record. Touches are actually surprisingly similar, without the Man city and CP game we have 35 touches per game, level with 17/18 season.

Lets look at the equivalent games last season.

Fulham (h)- 48 touches 4 shots
Man City (h) - 32 touches 1 shot
Newcastle (a) 52 touches 2 shots.
Arsenal - 24 touches 3 shots
Crystal P - 36 touches 7 shots
Inter - 26 touches 0 shots

Now some games have been changed on the basis of Kane's injury. But what we see is he did take more touches, but nothing to indicate something strange about the previous sample.

Kane scored only 2 goals out of the equivalent 6 games,and took one less shot. So it appears that this season Kane is much more clinical, and more effective with his time on the ball.

This is also where the stats are misleading, shots on target is an incredibly pointless stat. Doesn't mean anything in itself. Conversion rate is way more important, and Kane's is still very high.

3)
Also things like exG, which btw are really not that useful without context, are the average for the league. The best players consistently out do exG. In fact using these stats it always shows the worst teams to be expected more points and the best less. We would have finished 5th according the exG, behind Man utd by 0.21 points. In other words we pretty much finished were our stats to be normal, where we actually finished.

We made 10 more points than expected. For comparison, Man city = 8 points, Liverpool = 14, Chelsea were even, Arsenal = 11, Man utd =4.

So even with our headers, and long range shots (which just largely suggests we are good at those things, not some kind of unsustainable claim) taken out, there is nothing that is a particular anomaly.

In other words the video is pretty poor, using a tiny unrepresentative sample to draw out poorly thought out theories. Similarly, while I do worry about our openness, last season was not some major luck involved in us finishing 4th, but rather was largely in line with other top clubs.

 

[Mr Pink]

But if you have been putting that work in for years and not winning anything, why would you still put your body through that, when you can do less, still get paid, and still not win anything? That's what happens when players get older. They become more cynical and self-serving.

If you look at a lot of Poch's comments in this context, it all makes sense. I get a real feeling he's talking and they're not listening or doing the things he wants. It's driving him mad, and he faces a massive challenge to turn this situation around, in my opinion.

Get that, but the drop off is stark, or has been in some cases.

The bottom line is he has to get them working harder, they're all paid millions at the end of the day.

If he can't then maybe he has lost the dressing room to an extent.

 

[shelfboy68]

It has been mentioned that we are financially dominant over the vast majority of the league but is that really the case.
Everton now have sound backing and outspent us in the past two windows, add to the mix clubs like wolves, Leicester, west ham and indeed even Fulham who despite getting relegated spent 100m which at the time was more than us.
There is so much money available now through TV deals that in reality despite having the 6th biggest turnover we probably can only dominate 6-8 clubs in the league.
And with Levy's comments that we could spend more but we won't policy, it seems that he is determined to see out his policy of ground level which could years even a decade to see if it proves successful meanwhile the chasing pack get bigger and spend more to improve.
Although the new stadium was opened with great fanfare it looks like both manager and club are both flat out on their arse with no obvious pick me up in sight.

 

[Shadydan]

It has been mentioned that we are financially dominant over the vast majority of the league but is that really the case.
Everton now have sound backing and outspent us in the past two windows, add to the mix clubs like wolves, Leicester, west ham and indeed even Fulham who despite getting relegated spent 100m which at the time was more than us.
There is so much money available now through TV deals that in reality despite having the 6th biggest turnover we probably can only dominate 6-8 clubs in the league.
And with Levy's comments that we could spend more but we won't policy, it seems that he is determined to see out his policy of ground level which could years even a decade to see if it proves successful meanwhile the chasing pack get bigger and spend more to improve.
Although the new stadium was opened with great fanfare it looks like both manager and club are both flat out on their arse with no obvious pick me up in sight.

The majority of the competition, only 5 teams in the league have higher revenue than us, and you look at the revenue anyway not the spend - the revenue meaning how much money your club is making and thus what you're able to spend expenditure i.e how much you spend on players, staff, wages, infrastructure etc...not just transfers

5th highest in the Prem, 10th highest in Europe (according to Deloitte for the 2017/19 season)

 

[danielneeds]

Get that, but the drop off is stark, or has been in some cases.

The bottom line is he has to get them working harder, they're all paid millions at the end of the day.

If he can't then maybe he has lost the dressing room to an extent.

Lost the dressing room is extreme. It’s just an case of some players won’t follow him the the ends of the earth like they used to. It’s why he wanted to clear the decks, in my opinion.

He wanted a Fergie-style refresher this summer, and didn’t quite get it.

 

[ackie]

It's all to do with the price Levy was setting, though. If he said to Real, "You can have Eriksen for £50m,," maybe they would have come in. Similarly, if Rose was available cheap, I'm sure he would have had some offers. Toby for £25m was a headscratcher nobody came in. I guess the package his agent was looking for excluded a lot of clubs from making an offer.

Wait! So you're telling me that we should just cave in an accept deragatory "cheap" offers for our players? Had we done that then many would have said we are just a selling club and cave is when big clubs wants our stars.

 

[SugarRay]

If Poch losing the dressing room is the case, those he has lost need to fuck off because it’s become even more clear the real reason why we always fall at the final hurdle is the players themselves, or certain ones should I say. I’ve said it before, there’s a few whose effort levels suggest they think they are doing us a favour by playing for us. Bye bye. Go and try ( and fail ) to get your big move to a European giant and end up making a backward step and stand even less chance of winning things and in a couple of years start regretting it all.

We are a massive draw for players and should never ever accept a player pulling on our shirt who doesn’t want to be here. Tottenham Hotspur is so much bigger than the likes of Eriksen it’s laughable.

 

[Japhet]

Lost the dressing room is extreme. It’s just an case of some players won’t follow him the the ends of the earth like they used to. It’s why he wanted to clear the decks, in my opinion.

He wanted a Fergie-style refresher this summer, and didn’t quite get it.

IMO his bizarre comments in the Summer were quite damaging. Instead of everybody fighting for the cause it seemed that the interpretation of his comments (i.e. I might be off soon) had a very negative effect on player loyalt which, in turn, has led to a very lack lustre start to the season. The Manager should always do everything possible to keep the moral high ground, otherwise those around him can begin to sink.

 

[Lighty64]

It's all to do with the price Levy was setting, though. If he said to Real, "You can have Eriksen for £50m,," maybe they would have come in. Similarly, if Rose was available cheap, I'm sure he would have had some offers. Toby for £25m was a headscratcher nobody came in. I guess the package his agent was looking for excluded a lot of clubs from making an offer.

sorry but Wanyama never signed for Brugge because he turned down their wage offer

Eriksen never went to RM, because his performances last season, ZZ didn't want him and they already spent a shed load.

the only club to of made any move on Toby was Roma.

the only club interested in Rose was Watford, and if Watford could afford the price that Levy put on, then I'm sure any club could.

nothing to do with Levy apart from turning down a poor offer from Roma

 

[shelfboy68]

The majority of the competition, only 5 teams in the league have higher revenue than us, and you look at the revenue anyway not the spend - the revenue meaning how much money your club is making and thus what you're able to spend expenditure i.e how much you spend on players, staff, wages, infrastructure etc...not just transfers

5th highest in the Prem, 10th highest in Europe (according to Deloitte for the 2017/19 season)

I'm well aware of what revenue is as I referenced it in my original post when I mentioned that we had the 6th biggest turnover, you responded by saying 5th biggest so I was out by one.
Incidentally of the other top nine teams in that list in Europe how many are without a trophy for over a decade just out of curiosity.

 

[Shadydan]

I'm well aware of what revenue is as I referenced it in my original post when I mentioned that we had the 6th biggest turnover, you responded by saying 5th biggest so I was out by one.
Incidentally of the other top nine teams in that list in Europe how many are without a trophy for over a decade just out of curiosity.

Well I was just making sure as you seem to be confused as to what 'financially dominant' meant and you went on about spending money, yes it really is the case we have more money than most teams.

Not sure about your 2nd point, I'm sure your curiosity can be cured by Googling the answer

 

[Lighty64]

I'm well aware of what revenue is as I referenced it in my original post when I mentioned that we had the 6th biggest turnover, you responded by saying 5th biggest so I was out by one.
Incidentally of the other top nine teams in that list in Europe how many are without a trophy for over a decade just out of curiosity.

how many of those 9 teams are either not financially dopped, playing in a 3 team league, and have built a stadium over that 10year period?

 

[shelfboy68]

how many of those 9 teams are either not financially dopped, playing in a 3 team league, and have built a stadium over that 10year period?

Thanks for letting me know I was waiting for someone to bring up those points.

 

[rabbikeane]

Youth and hunger was the center of Poch's early days. Quick fit feet, willingness to listen and take his direction.
If we want to stick with him there's a logic behind being more extreme in our transfer and player policy. Selling players on a high, like we could with Dier and Alli (£150-200m?), always getting new blood in. Sell high, buy potential. While also sending players that have lost it, ie Wanyama, out on loan no matter what it will cost to keep them out of the picture. As it seems Poch like every other manager will go with the name if available, like Wanyama over Skipp lately.

If that will lead to trophies, I'm not sure as many peak players usually is what wins, but it would keep a Pochettino team firing.

 

[Shadydan]

how many of those 9 teams are either not financially dopped, playing in a 3 team league, and have built a stadium over that 10year period?

You took the bait

 

[buckley]

On our slow start to the season its been the same each season since Poch arrived .
We seem to be like a massive ship that takes time to get going but when we do we are difficult to stop.