The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Deleted member 27995]

Bit worried by Balagues comments basically saying that Poch is calm to the media but not behind the scenes and there comes a time where he doesn’t owe tottenham anything and now is that time... he’s very close to Poch, almost his PR man you might say so that’s worrying.

I hope this isn’t the case but what if after all the Real Madrid interest Poch said I’ll give you one more season this year while we transition to the new stadium out of courtesy and respect as a man of principle but then next summer please let me go to Real Madrid? Could also explain why no signings.

I obviously hope Poch stays and at least gives it one full season in the new stadium ideally he stays for a good many years longer and is given money to re-build this team and go to the next level and win things but I think there is a real possibility he leaves next summer now if that is the case who would Levy be realistically looking at as contingeny plans I’m your opinions?

I can only really think of one man, Eddie Howe, he knows the league he gets his team playing expansive attacking football, he’s getting better as a manager every year and he’s also hugely overachieving with the players he has just like Poch is. Or would Levy go down another foreign manager route?

I don’t want to think about this but it may become a real issue

I think he'll give us the season in the new stadium - but we're going to have to show something for that process otherwise there will be little point in him taking us there.

Keep the faith.

 

[wrd]

Bit worried by Balagues comments basically saying that Poch is calm to the media but not behind the scenes and there comes a time where he doesn’t owe tottenham anything and now is that time... he’s very close to Poch, almost his PR man you might say so that’s worrying.

I hope this isn’t the case but what if after all the Real Madrid interest Poch said I’ll give you one more season this year while we transition to the new stadium out of courtesy and respect as a man of principle but then next summer please let me go to Real Madrid? Could also explain why no signings.

I obviously hope Poch stays and at least gives it one full season in the new stadium ideally he stays for a good many years longer and is given money to re-build this team and go to the next level and win things but I think there is a real possibility he leaves next summer now if that is the case who would Levy be realistically looking at as contingeny plans I’m your opinions?

I can only really think of one man, Eddie Howe, he knows the league he gets his team playing expansive attacking football, he’s getting better as a manager every year and he’s also hugely overachieving with the players he has just like Poch is. Or would Levy go down another foreign manager route?

I don’t want to think about this but it may become a real issue

So Balague is suggesting that Poch goes on 20 minute monologues showing his passion for the club just to appease the media? I know it's a bit of a hill to die on to disagree with the man who wrote his book but I'm going to do it.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

So Balague is suggesting that Poch goes on 20 minute monologues showing his passion for the club just to appease the media? I know it's a bit of a hill to die on to disagree with the man who wrote his book but I'm going to do it.

TBF to him Balague shot down the notion that Poch aims shit at the board via press conferences as he said he speaks with Daniel every day.

I feel that there is enough of a positive view right now that he'll be here come the summer, it's what happens in the Summer that made decide the future.

(I feel we have been here before, it's fun being a Spurs fan)

 

[Gareth88]

TBF to him Balague shot down the notion that Poch aims shit at the board via press conferences as he said he speaks with Daniel every day.

I feel that there is enough of a positive view right now that he'll be here come the summer, it's what happens in the Summer that made decide the future.

(I feel we have been here before, it's fun being a Spurs fan)

Somtimes

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

Seems clear to me Levy has completely prioritized all funds for the stadium fiasco this season, I do agree I think Poch will give him one more season to see in the new stadium at least, but if we again fail to show ambition to at least try to get to that next level that Poch has often talked about I think it will be adios, he has to want to win things, big, big summer coming up, Levy needs to earn his next raise.

 

[Lighty64]

It's a cynical viewpoint, but it's usually safer to go that way. There's no guarantee at all that the increased revenue will be pumped back into the team, there was of course a guarantee that the stadium wouldn't affect spending which was not kept.

Where this leaves us with Poch, who knows, so many contradictory viewpoints flying about, even from the man himself at times it seems..

It would of effected though, we would of been paying players that couldn’t be counted in the squad, and meant someone missing out of the CL squad again, and Poch doesn’t break a promise. Only getting rid of Dembele which Foyth was promised his spot we would of needed to sell one more, and also brought a HG player or it would of meant any decent signing wouldn’t be able to play in the CL this season unless one of the others in the CL squad dropped out.

Paying players that can’t be involved means some else gets less wages, or their new proposed contract not upped because we would be paying 2 or 3 players for not even being needed at the training ground other than playing for the U23’s

It’s not the stadium we haven’t even got yet even though still cost us a lot of extra money, it’s the squad size that’s effected spending

 

[joshcorey]

While I completely understand where you're coming from, I do think there is one reason to have a glimmer of hope as to why Poch himself is calling for patience and seems to be committed to the project (which I honestly don't think he would be if what you're saying is true): That reason is the stadium financing.

If you look at the figures in this post in the "Levy or Lewis?" thread, it's clear that there was a sea-change in ENIC's approach to the transfer market around the time the stadium project started moving ahead full steam. Prior to that, we were one of the biggest spenders in the league with ENIC pumping £235m net into the squad over the course of a decade. In the time since, we've strictly adhered to a zero net-spend policy with the singular exception of the Sissoko transfer when we first qualified for the CL under Poch.

So regardless of the bullshit PR spin coming from Donna Cullen et. al, it's clear as fucking day that the stadium has in fact had a huge impact on our transfer business. With the stadium agonizingly yet to be delivered, there's never been more uncertainty over what the final cost will be. With each additional match at Wembley, we're losing millions in additional rent payments and lost ticket revenue. Whether the club will be liable for the cost overruns caused by the long delay has yet to be established. The naming rights deal, which will provide the plurality of the financing for the project, has yet to go into effect. All of these questions likely would have been sorted by the end of the summer window if the build had stayed on schedule.

So if you look at ENIC's modus operandi dating back to 2001 rather than 2011, it's clear that there has been two major phases: First, invest in the squad to build us up competitively, then second to direct the club's funds into building up its infrastructure. We're at the very end of that second stage now, and indeed have gone well past what should have been its end date. It's unbelievably frustrating as a supporter but you can understand why Levy would not splash the huge revenues we are generating back into the transfer market when the possibility exists that the club could be on the hook for tens of millions of pounds (or more?) worth of cost overruns.

What the NEXT phase of ENIC's m.o. turns out to be, no one outside of the club knows. Poch seems to be convinced that it will mean we can kick on as a club, or else I really don't think he'd be saying what he is in his press conferences. So yes, despite the completely understandable gnashing of teeth around our unbelievably piss poor squad management, I do think there's good reason to be patient for just a little while longer. If the situation persists through the upcoming summer window, I'll be right there with you with the pitchforks and torches.

Great post

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

While I completely understand where you're coming from, I do think there is one reason to have a glimmer of hope as to why Poch himself is calling for patience and seems to be committed to the project (which I honestly don't think he would be if what you're saying is true): That reason is the stadium financing.

If you look at the figures in this post in the "Levy or Lewis?" thread, it's clear that there was a sea-change in ENIC's approach to the transfer market around the time the stadium project started moving ahead full steam. Prior to that, we were one of the biggest spenders in the league with ENIC pumping £235m net into the squad over the course of a decade. In the time since, we've strictly adhered to a zero net-spend policy with the singular exception of the Sissoko transfer when we first qualified for the CL under Poch.

So regardless of the bullshit PR spin coming from Donna Cullen et. al, it's clear as fucking day that the stadium has in fact had a huge impact on our transfer business. With the stadium agonizingly yet to be delivered, there's never been more uncertainty over what the final cost will be. With each additional match at Wembley, we're losing millions in additional rent payments and lost ticket revenue. Whether the club will be liable for the cost overruns caused by the long delay has yet to be established. The naming rights deal, which will provide the plurality of the financing for the project, has yet to go into effect. All of these questions likely would have been sorted by the end of the summer window if the build had stayed on schedule.

So if you look at ENIC's modus operandi dating back to 2001 rather than 2011, it's clear that there has been two major phases: First, invest in the squad to build us up competitively, then second to direct the club's funds into building up its infrastructure. We're at the very end of that second stage now, and indeed have gone well past what should have been its end date. It's unbelievably frustrating as a supporter but you can understand why Levy would not splash the huge revenues we are generating back into the transfer market when the possibility exists that the club could be on the hook for tens of millions of pounds (or more?) worth of cost overruns.

What the NEXT phase of ENIC's m.o. turns out to be, no one outside of the club knows. Poch seems to be convinced that it will mean we can kick on as a club, or else I really don't think he'd be saying what he is in his press conferences. So yes, despite the completely understandable gnashing of teeth around our unbelievably piss poor squad management, I do think there's good reason to be patient for just a little while longer. If the situation persists through the upcoming summer window, I'll be right there with you with the pitchforks and torches.

I admire your optimism, sadly I think it is misplaced. Anyone who knows ENIC is aware that the stadium completion wasn’t a new phase for them but the end game that allowed them to sell. If they don’t get their sale the notion that they move on to a new phase is fanciful. They will synthesise the sale by an IPO or massively leveraging us. They are focussed on getting their money out of the club not using increased cash flow to buy players. Happy to eat copious amounts of humble pie if I’m wrong and sincerely wishing I am but all evidence suggests otherwise, not least the fact that with the stadium supposedly close to completion last summer they didn’t change gears. In the scheme of things the cost over runs are small beer compared to what we should be expecting to invest in the squad so they could have taken a view and stuck to their schedule, if as you say that was their plan for a new phase. They didn’t, they spent the summer hawking the club for sale. That tells me everything about their intentions.

 

[Lighty64]

I can see where you are coming from with the viewpoint.

But the only way for the club to go to the next level - always at the top of the league, more money/acclaim/respect/fear etc, and consistently winning trophies - is if absolutely everything about the club continues to improve. There will be bumps in the road along the way, such as now - where we apparently didn't spend enough to satisfy transfer junkies for a couple of windows......

Our work in the transfer market has to get better, yes. As does our scouting. But also so do the players. And Poch in lots of areas. Technically things have got to improve. As does Tactically. The philosophy. The academy has got to kick on another level. The 'club' has got to grow and get more money, more sponsorship, more paying fans. And so many other areas. Along the way some people might leave, including some revered and who we think are irreplaceable, we get on with it and get better.

Obviously we do a lot of things right , including the model that has got us here that is apparently so lamented, and have bridged a gap and are close now, but to me this isn't yet a big club, a winning club, in all honesty. People will say 'yeah, because of how the board/Levy acts. But it's how Poch acts. The players act. The majority of fans act.

Spunking money on (say) 50 million pound signings isn't going to do it, because other clubs will always spend 75 million in response and even more at the slightest hint of us doing something really good. They are now, they will continue to.

So reaching the top is an ongoing process. The reality is it will continue to take years. Everything about the club will have to continue to grow if it wants to be a serious player. There is no quick, transfer fix.

A good post don’t know if it’s quoting someone else as I know I’ve 1 on ignore that loves a meltdown on transfer window if we don’t spend 300m because that’s what was brought in, and his name was mentioned in a post by someone else. The only thing you failed to mention is the size of the squad now and lack of HG. The HG rule is going to be important to stay ahead of, and the rules not watched properly I expect before we 1st got CL back under Poch.

Those mainly moaning this morning haven’t an idea of it either, and their only answers would be is 1, we earn enough to waste on a few players wages that won’t be able to play, 2, Levy tried to buy low sell high (yawn), they don’t understand that our players might not want to go and play for that club. SSN (sensatialist) kept mentioning about Janssen being priced at £15m, yet it’s been out there for weeks we’ve been asking for 10m. The melts in here most prob so desperate for a new toy, expect us to hand them over for free and offer to pay a portion of their wages. The funny thing is these melts claim to work in finance, thank goodness they don’t run our club or we would be heading down the Leeds route.

 

[alamo]

I admire your optimism, sadly I think it is misplaced. Anyone who knows ENIC is aware that the stadium completion wasn’t a new phase for them but the end game that allowed them to sell. If they don’t get their sale the notion that they move on to a new phase is fanciful. They will synthesise the sale by an IPO or massively leveraging us. They are focussed on getting their money out of the club not using increased cash flow to buy players. Happy to eat copious amounts of humble pie if I’m wrong and sincerely wishing I am but all evidence suggests otherwise, not least the fact that with the stadium supposedly close to completion last summer they didn’t change gears. In the scheme of things the cost over runs are small beer compared to what we should be expecting to invest in the squad so they could have taken a view and stuck to their schedule, if as you say that was their plan for a new phase. They didn’t, they spent the summer hawking the club for sale. That tells me everything about their intentions.

We don't know how much truth there is in that statement, but I still don't see an issue even if it is correct.

They haven't come in and asset stripped the club. They have actively gone about steadily improving all parts of the footballing infrastructure - the stadium, squad, training ground, manager.....

As such if they choose to sell the club having made it a successful, attractive, purchasable proposition then what is there to complain about?

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

We don't know how much truth there is in that statement, but I still don't see an issue even if it is correct.

They haven't come in and asset stripped the club. They have actively gone about steadily improving all parts of the footballing infrastructure - the stadium, squad, training ground, manager.....

As such if they choose to sell the club having made it a successful, attractive, purchasable proposition then what is there to complain about?

Mentioning the sale was relevant in the context if there not being a next phase to their ownership where they increase funding for the playing squad. If they sell at anywhere close to their asking price we have a massive problem because nobody pays those kind of sums without expecting a serious return and that only comes from taking cashflow out from the club.

If this transpires then ENIC will have asset stripped the club. Using over 10 years of operating cashflow that could have been spent on the pitch to build property assets which they can then sell.

 

[swarvsta]

It would of effected though, we would of been paying players that couldn’t be counted in the squad, and meant someone missing out of the CL squad again, and Poch doesn’t break a promise. Only getting rid of Dembele which Foyth was promised his spot we would of needed to sell one more, and also brought a HG player or it would of meant any decent signing wouldn’t be able to play in the CL this season unless one of the others in the CL squad dropped out.

Paying players that can’t be involved means some else gets less wages, or their new proposed contract not upped because we would be paying 2 or 3 players for not even being needed at the training ground other than playing for the U23’s

It’s not the stadium we haven’t even got yet even though still cost us a lot of extra money, it’s the squad size that’s effected spending

Would of is would have, could of is could have, should of is should have, will of is will have, and might of is might have.

Just saying, innit.

 

[Lighty64]

Would of is would have, could of is could have, should of is should have, will of is will have, and might of is might have.

Just saying, innit.

I was crap at English at school so no point trying to teach me now, though I was crap with money (addicted gambler, I was very good with figures) and live in a world that knows 2+2= 7

 

[rupsmith]

Top interview - could not agree more

 

[Lighty64]

So Poch is just saying what Levy wants to hear for nearly a year because ... ? I'm curious, I have no doubt that other managers have said things while Levy is pulling strings, I just want to understand why you think Poch is also doing this?

Besides some of the more candid stuff released from Poch recently ITK on all fronts seems to suggest that Poch has a much a hand in this transfer outlook as Levy ...

Fuck this shit is tiresome.

at the end of the day those that hate ENIC/Levy will always put the blame at their door, no matter what Poch tells us, or ITK tells us. it's the same poster banging the same drum, that want instant success because Chelsea and City did it that way, and because of 1 good year of profits expected us to match what Liverpool have done. the thing is Liverpool still haven't won anything yet, a lot can happen over 14 games.

 

[R_1001001]

People need to get off Levy's back.

Agree!
For all we know he could actually be 6ft +

 

[Lighty64]

If we aren’t able to sign Poch’s targets this window , the very least I would be satisfied with is pushing the boat out to get the Toby and Eriksen deals done!
The lack of signings has been painful the last 2 windows but getting Poch and Kane to put pen to paper was deals I would have wanted over any incoming player/s.

Toby won't happen in my view. he was offered a 110% increase accepted, then with the VVD deal got greedy in wanting a 150% increase. for us to give him that increase, every other player would be right to ask for the same increase.

with Eriksen that's even more worrying over the time he has been with us, he seems to of extended a few times, but the period has always been shorter than others. he has always wanted to play in Spain (think RM is his dream) a dream he has had since being a kid, and is now at an age that he needs to make the move before he gets too old. there has been rumours RM are planning a move, the worry is if they don't and wait for him going there on a free the year after. Levy will try his hardest if Eriksen doesn't sign a new deal to get a deal done in the summer, but it won't mean we will be able to sell him elsewhere, especially if Eriksen has only 1 destination in his sights

 

[Yiddo100]

According to UEFA report, Tottenham wage bill is €148m.

So you could double the wages of every single Tottenham player, they could sign seven new players on £100,000 a week, and they would *still* have a lower wage bill than Manchester City.

That's why Pochettino gets praised.
Wow

 

[SpartanSpur]

According to UEFA report, Tottenham wage bill is €148m.

So you could double the wages of every single Tottenham player, they could sign seven new players on £100,000 a week, and they would *still* have a lower wage bill than Manchester City.

That's why Pochettino gets praised.
Wow

I imagine that is old information. Kane, Son and Dele got huge rises this year. New contracts for Sanchez and Winks too off the top of my head. I'd imagine that also doesn't include bonus pay. Their's includes Pep's insane wage too (£20m).

Still at a huge disadvantage, don't get me wrong, but I'm not buying that every one of their players is knocking 200k per week.

 

[hakano]

Mentioning the sale was relevant in the context if there not being a next phase to their ownership where they increase funding for the playing squad. If they sell at anywhere close to their asking price we have a massive problem because nobody pays those kind of sums without expecting a serious return and that only comes from taking cashflow out from the club.

If this transpires then ENIC will have asset stripped the club. Using over 10 years of operating cashflow that could have been spent on the pitch to build property assets which they can then sell.

The custodian of the club Mr Daniel Levy asset stripping the club , I hope it isn't the case but sadly think it is where we are with ENIC.