The No10 dilemma

[Bus-Conductor]

but they don't! silva, nasri, countinho, james, isco, ozil, koke etc are all often deployed wide in favour of runners in central areas.

i'm bored of going over the same ground, just read this - http://theinsidechannel.com/2014/11/28/analysis/tactics/christian-eriksen-isnt-number-10/ and we can agree to disagree.

It's half truth half bunkum. It makes a lot of stuff up. Yaya has played 16 games as a CM, 2 as an ACM this season. Silva 9 as ACM. A lot of those are given wide attacking roles primarily because they can run at people as well as having vision, or to accommodate other players in their respective teams. Eriksen does not do this generally. Lamela and Chadli do.

It ignores the examples of very successful utilisation of no.10 types centrally.

The irony of all this is that I wouldn't even play with a No.10 if I had my way, and I would start with Eriksen left of the 433.

I just don't buy the argument that we are always better with him there.

 

[yido_number1]

Perhaps, personally I'd be in the market for a standard winger who holds width and runs in behind. So far this season the best performance from a right winger has been Lennon v Everton imo

Lamela vs burnley? or Townsend vs burnley fa cup for me

 

[Blake Griffin]

Now show me how much ball he sees in each position. Which is what I argued. Try these for this season:

Eriksen Left

P 5 Goals 2 Assists 0

Chadli

P 16 Goals 6 Assists 5


That makes Chadli the most productive player on the left of the two, why would you want Eriksen to take his place if it's just about numbers ?

actually, eriksen's one pl assist this season came against swansea when he started from the left. you said the reason he only has one assist is because he's been shunted to the left? you think a 5 game sample size disproves a 20 game sample size? how many assists is it for mr eriksen as a #10 this season? 0 for 10? 0 for 15? i didn't even mention chadli and yes he's performed well there, but i'd rather get our best players in their best positions and work out the rest later. you want an am3 of chadli, eriksen, lamela - the problem with this is that they all want ther ball to feet in the same area of the pitch, you're then asking our full backs to be responsible for the other two thirds of the pitch and last time i checked, you weren't a massive fan of walker and rose. no one in that setup stretches play, no one wants to receive the ball on the run, none of them run in behind, everything just gets played in front of the opposition.

 

[Blake Griffin]

It's half truth half bunkum. It makes a lot of stuff up. Yaya has played 16 games as a CM, 2 as an ACM this season. Silva 9 as ACM. A lot of those are given wide attacking roles primarily because they can run at people as well as having vision, or to accommodate other players in their respective teams. Eriksen does not do this generally. Lamela and Chadli do.

It ignores the examples of very successful utilisation of no.10 types centrally.

The irony of all this is that I wouldn't even play with a No.10 if I had my way, and I would start with Eriksen left of the 433.

I just don't buy the argument that we are always better with him there.

so after all this chat, you want eriksen on the left anyway and chadli binned off for lamela?

 

[eViL]

It shouldn't matter where any of their starting positions are.. the front 4 should be fluid and interchangeable going forward, but prepared to press their starting positions when not in posession.

Out of all our options, we only have Chadli, Lamela and Kane capable of a true press - you need to be prepared to win the ball once you get near your man too.

 

[DaSpurs]

It shouldn't matter where any of their starting positions are.. the front 4 should be fluid and interchangeable going forward, but prepared to press their starting positions when not in posession.

Out of all our options, we only have Chadli, Lamela and Kane capable of a true press - you need to be prepared to win the ball once you get near your man too.

Eriksen actually has rather stunning numbers defensively. Big change since last season.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

If we had a striker who could score 15-20 prem goals a season I would play Kane as a 10 with Eriksen of the left. We don't have that striker so it has to be Kane striker and Eriksen as a 10

Kane can score that many! He has to play striker if he's on the pitch.

 

[eViL]

Eriksen actually has rather stunning numbers defensively. Big change since last season.

What are his attempted tackle stats?

 

[Blake Griffin]

It shouldn't matter where any of their starting positions are.. the front 4 should be fluid and interchangeable going forward, but prepared to press their starting positions when not in posession.

Out of all our options, we only have Chadli, Lamela and Kane capable of a true press - you need to be prepared to win the ball once you get near your man too.

they should be fluid, in theory, but in practice it never works out like that does it? they all just migrate to the same area of the pitch and make eriksen's job even harder. only mason in our setup seems prepared to make runs off the ball. as a trio(lamela/eriksen/chadli), i just don't think they're dynamic enough to really pull it off. as for the press, don't you think lennon's capable or were you discounting him on the grounds of poch not using him?

 

[eViL]

they should be fluid, in theory, but in practice it never works out like that does it? they all just migrate to the same area of the pitch and make eriksen's job even harder. only mason in our setup seems prepared to make runs off the ball. as a trio(lamela/eriksen/chadli), i just don't think they're dynamic enough to really pull it off. as for the press, don't you think lennon's capable or were you discounting him on the grounds of poch not using him?

The system relies on the fullbacks for width - the issue we've got is there's only Chadli that likes to get in the box... Eriksen, Lamela, Townsend all want to hover around the box as opposed to in it.

At the moment there's an attempted assist going into the box, there should be three players in there. There's only ever 1.

It's problem that has been there ever since AVB - and with that we can only diagnose that we don't have the right personnel - and much that I'm a big fan of his, Eriksen is as guilty as the rest.

 

[eViL]

they should be fluid, in theory, but in practice it never works out like that does it? they all just migrate to the same area of the pitch and make eriksen's job even harder. only mason in our setup seems prepared to make runs off the ball. as a trio(lamela/eriksen/chadli), i just don't think they're dynamic enough to really pull it off. as for the press, don't you think lennon's capable or were you discounting him on the grounds of poch not using him?

Just to answer your question regarding Lennon - I'd say the reason he isn't getting near the starting 11 is down to lifestyle and training as opposed to how he'd fit into the system.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

so after all this chat, you want eriksen on the left anyway and chadli binned off for lamela?

I said it in my first post, not after all this chat. Like I said though, if we are playing 4231, which we are, then I also like Eriksen in the ACM role. Especially when we get Pritchard back and he can play the ALM.

 

[CockFlavour]

Dembele ,Kane, CE, Chadders, Lamela, Pauli and even Soldado have started at No10 in Poch's favoured formation this season. They all have had varied degrees of success with only really Eriksen shinning in the role. Therefore I'd love to see Lamela given a run of games to make position his own. He has yet to find his feet at the lane but in my opinion this is due to being played mainly on the right. There he always cuts into a already conjested area and limits the teams effectiveness. Chadders has already demonstrated he can play on the right and Eriksen, before he came to us, has played most of his career on the left. All three players can interchange as Poch wants movement all the time. I hope this is tried out soon as it would be dynamite if it came off.

No. No he hasn't?

 

[Blake Griffin]

No. No he hasn't?

his final couple of seasons were mostly played here -

xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx eriksen
xxxxxxx ------------------ xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
​

he did play left forward quite a bit too but dropped back when fischer was in the side. i never once saw him play as a #10 and as far as i know, it was only during his first season where he played there.

 

[DaSpurs]

his final couple of seasons were mostly played here -

xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx eriksen
xxxxxxx ------------------ xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
​

he did play left forward quite a bit too but dropped back when fischer was in the side. i never once saw him play as a #10 and as far as i know, it was only during his first season where he played there.

That positioning and its responsibilities are still much closer to that of a central attacking mid than a left-sided winger.

 

[Blake Griffin]

That positioning and its responsibilities are still much closer to that of a central attacking mid than a left-sided winger.

i still don't agree(and i prefer the term left sided midfielder ) that position above is more or less the same role he takes up when he plays off the left for us anyway. i prefer him getting on the ball regularly and then being able to move into space in the final third. as a #10 he always has his back to goal and has to wait for the ball, it's harder for defenders to pick up opposition players from deep than those right in front of them.

 

[Nebby]

Eriksen all day long.

 

[DaSpurs]

i still don't agree(and i prefer the term left sided midfielder ) that position above is more or less the same role he takes up when he plays off the left for us anyway. i prefer him getting on the ball regularly and then being able to move into space in the final third. as a #10 he always has his back to goal and has to wait for the ball, it's harder for defenders to pick up opposition players from deep than those right in front of them.

Yet again, everything you say here is absolutely correct, but you stop prematurely in your reasoning process to reinforce your position.

While playing your "left sided midfielder" role, he still has additional responsibility in our system. He still has to shield for his fullback, while playing as the left sided attacking midfielder for Ajax, he a) had another winger over there to help shield and b) Ajax faced nowhere near as much pressure as we do. Yes, it is similar in that he had a "left-sided free role," but with us he has more defensive responsibility and against far more quality players. The result of this is that he is even further from the play too often because he's deep on the left side. So what is the lesser of two evils, having to check to the ball centrally because we lack another playmaker centrally who can open up space for him, or the fact our most creative player is often deep in our own half on the transition of possession?

The optimal thing to happen here is a central playmaker so Eriksen can remain central, doesn't have to play so deep to receive the ball, and he can often move horizontally into space to check in as a result of that playmaker physically moving forward. Mason does a good amount of this, but it's still not entirely enough because Poch likes his double pivot so much and because Mason doesn't move forward quite enough with the ball at his foot.

All of it hinges on that playmaker, but for now we are at our best trying to pick through these stubborn sides who compact against us with our most creative player centrally so he can view the most possible lanes of sight, and that way he isn't forced to try and get back to counter if he's wide (with his lack of excessive pace, he's better engaging the central disperser in an attempted counter instead of having to try and stay with a pacey winger).

 

[Blake Griffin]

Yet again, everything you say here is absolutely correct, but you stop prematurely in your reasoning process to reinforce your position.

While playing your "left sided midfielder" role, he still has additional responsibility in our system. He still has to shield for his fullback, while playing as the left sided attacking midfielder for Ajax, he a) had another winger over there to help shield and b) Ajax faced nowhere near as much pressure as we do. Yes, it is similar in that he had a "left-sided free role," but with us he has more defensive responsibility and against far more quality players. The result of this is that he is even further from the play too often because he's deep on the left side. So what is the lesser of two evils, having to check to the ball centrally because we lack another playmaker centrally who can open up space for him, or the fact our most creative player is often deep in our own half on the transition of possession?

The optimal thing to happen here is a central playmaker so Eriksen can remain central, doesn't have to play so deep to receive the ball, and he can often move horizontally into space to check in as a result of that playmaker physically moving forward. Mason does a good amount of this, but it's still not entirely enough because Poch likes his double pivot so much and because Mason doesn't move forward quite enough with the ball at his foot.

All of it hinges on that playmaker, but for now we are at our best trying to pick through these stubborn sides who compact against us with our most creative player centrally so he can view the most possible lanes of sight, and that way he isn't forced to try and get back to counter if he's wide (with his lack of excessive pace, he's better engaging the central disperser in an attempted counter instead of having to try and stay with a pacey winger).

who do you want on the right?

 

[ultimateloner]

Given lack of cm options and lamela back I think we should try Eriksen and beni in CM with Kane/chadli/lamela/ade up front.

Reason is Eriksen has the lungs now and he is a better footballer than an out of form mason. What we gain in higher passing speeds will compensate for lesser threat up front but Eriksen can still do his last min goal thing.

Besides we need ade back on form so this at least gives him the opportunity.