The problem lies where?

[BringBack_leGin]

A lot of the media and so called experts, as well as our own fans, believe we have defensive issues to address. I beg to differ, this is why:

O5/06, where we finished 5th for the first time. We ended the season with both the 5th best defence, and attack in the league.

06/07, again we finish 5th, still with the 5th best attack in the league, but only the 12 best (9th worst) defence.

Last season we again had the 5th best attack, but this time as poor as the 16th best (5th worst) defence, and we ended up mid table, 11th.

So with a very good attack and a very good defence, we ended up 5th, with a very good attack and an average defence we finished 5th, but a very good attack with a poor defence saw us plummet to mid table.

Right now in the current season, we again have the 12 best (9th worst) defence, so again we are fairly average in defence, having conceded 26 goals in 21 games. That is acceptable. But here is the scary part. We have gone from having the 5th best attack, to the 16th best (5th worst) attack, having scored just 20 goals in 21 games.

Given that attacking is clearly our problem, while defending is adequate if not quite up to standard, we need hope for a few things.

First, our manager needs to be less cautious. We have lasted most of the season with just one specialist defensive midfielder playing in the form of Zokora, so let it stay like that, or replace him with King (something i support). But don't play them both. It is not necessary because we are not leaking goals.

Second, in those other three positions, try and find a role for at least 1 of Jenas and Huddlestone. With Steed gone, they are the two remaining midfielders from last season who scored the most. More importantly with our new direct front line of Defoe and Pavlyuchenko, they are the two midfielders who assisted most last season, with Jenas getting 6 and Huddlestone getting 7. From now on there should always be a place for one of them in the side. My preference would be Huddlestone but either will do.

Only two of Lennon, Modric and Bentley can ever play. They are all new to the side first and foremost, but they are also all players who will ultimately rely on the work of others to allow them to do what they do best. I am an unashamed Lennon fan, while others love Bentley, and most would agree that it is one of the other. Most would also agree that Modric is worth persisting with because his mind in on that slightly higher level.

Now I know that when make my suggestion a lot of you will think "but what about balance?". Balance, in my opinion, is a word used by managers when they need a situation to blame. Waddle and Ginola were amazing wingers who played on their wrong sides (though the latter was rather two footed).

We should go into every match with that 1 designated defensive midfielder. Maybe Zokora, maybe King, but I don't think the position, or any pof the backline, should be addressed. We can live with an adequate defence, adequacy doesn't get you relegated.

In front of that defensive midfield, it becomes a question of roles. Jenas and Huddlestone, though so different in style and physique, do very similar jobs when at their best. They both contribute to the attack first and foremost, while not shirking defensive responsibility. In fact, last season they rarely played together, but in place of one another and next to Zokora, which is why, when put together, their stats read as those of a great midfield season.

Two more positions to go. Zokora is in front of the back four, and one central midfield position is filled. The other, I would give to allow to be fought out between Modric and O'Hara. Modric is the more skilful, but he works hard. O'Hara is the harder worker, but he has some skill. Both are central players who can occasionally roam wide if need be. The presence to two other central midfielders will allow them to roam wide when need be. I want Modric to be the main man one day, but perhaps not just yet. For now, I think it should be between the two of them for one place and much should depend on whether we are home or away and on who we are playing.

The last position goes wide. We have Lennon, Bentley, and even Giovani. We all have our opinions on all of these players, siding with one or the other in various arguments, but ultimately they are the three players we have who are most likely to get the ball into the box by hook or by crook, one way or another. That comes in handy when all of our strikers are so service reliant.

I have provided statistics, I have provided my own views, and I have given reasons as to how I think we can solve our attacking issues without sacrificing the decent (and improving) defence that we have in place. I hope that perhaps this issue of signing solid defensive players can be put to bed, because the one part of our team not in complete crisis, for once, is our defence.

 

[le_magnifique]

The only change I'd have made to yesterday's team is Gunter in for Corluka. From seeing the line-up it was instantly clear we had two players on the left who can move wide, but Corluka and Zokora are both central players doing a job.

With Hutton out, and a diamond midfield, I'd play Gunter.

I think (and forgive me if I start to sound like a broken record) that the team cannot play without Jenas. So he starts next to Zokora.

Expecially away from home, Modric should only really play in a 4-5-1.

Thst means that despite pulling up Poyet on saying that £15m Pav and £16m Bent can't play together, we now can't play £15m Defoe and £15m Defoe together either. At least not from the start.

What we have, though, for the first time in a year, is a quartet of different "strikers": Bent, Pavlyuchenko, Modric and Defoe. Select according to the venue and the opposition.

Again, in midfield, select according to oppostion.
My default would be:

..................Defoe / Pav
............Modric
O'Hara...Jenas...Zokora.....Lennon

Depending on what's missing (delivery, passing quality, running, tackling, width) then make changes.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Selecting XI's and 'would-be' line-ups is so much piss in the wind (injuries, suspensions and mainly the shifting tides of our and other results make it superfluous) but I like the article BBLG. Nice one.

One thing I would add is that your intelligent analysis of results fails to add another essential note: White Hart Lane has seen considerably less goals than any other Premier League ground (14, with Bolton next at 19).

Some could say this is because teams set up so defensively against us at WHL and our biggest problem is breaking them down. Other could suggest it's all the fans fault.

Sitting here 7,000 miles from WHL, I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Selecting XI's and 'would-be' line-ups is so much piss in the wind (injuries, suspensions and mainly the shifting tides of our and other results make it superfluous) but I like the article BBLG. Nice one.

One thing I would add is that your intelligent analysis of results fails to add another essential note: White Hart Lane has seen considerably less goals than any other Premier League ground (14, with Bolton next at 19).

Some could say this is because teams set up so defensively against us at WHL and our biggest problem is breaking them down. Other could suggest it's all the fans fault.

Sitting here 7,000 miles from WHL, I couldn't possibly comment.

Thanks. I tried to avoid turning it into a "this is my preferred team" artcle because I wanted the article to seem objective enough for readers to focus on the main points, i.e the statistics show that this is where we don't have too many problems, this is where we do have problems, and this is what history tells us.

7,000 miles? Wow, I don't think I could cope with that.

 

[WesTheWalrus]

great post, makes a lot of sense. i am definitely realising now just how important Jenas and Hudd are to the team. Jenas is actually our top scoring midfielder this season (in the league) and is tied 2nd for most assists. and well Hudd was great when Harry joined, and our loss of form has coincided with his absence. one of them plus Zokora/Appiah in the middle would be great, in fact essential is probably the right word to use. that gives us a solid foundation in the midfield, while still providing some creativity and goalscoring potential. then it just comes down to who will fill the other spots. up to this point I (and probably the Spurs coaching staff as well) have been viewing Modric as undroppable, because of his reputation. but I think perhaps the time has come for this to change, and to put the team first. and as u say, Modric is still getting used to the English game, plus he is still very young. The likes of Lennon, Modric, O'Hara and Gio are versatile enough to play in various positions, and can be rotated as is seen fit, but Bentley must only be played on the right, if anywhere. right now I would go with:

O'Hara - Zok/Appiah - Jenas/Hudd - Lennon

if we play 4-5-1, which I think Harry must give due consideration to, then definitely stick Modric in the hole.

 

[DiscoD1882]

I think we just need to stop worrying about the teams around us and start playing VIndaloo football......"were gonna score one more than you" It will get the fans back enjoying going to the games and spur the players on. scoring goals wins games. and lets be honest we just havent been doing that in the league.

I appreciate this is a very simplistic view but it seemed to work for Mr Jol.

 

[striebs]

In a relegation battle we need the route 1 option , not so much against teams a long way above us like Wigan (can't believe I typed that) but to stop dropping points to the teams around us .

Defoe's introduction made no difference , it just seemed to strengthen the case for a Berbatov/Kanoute type player who can also be a target man .

Why were Pav and Defoe so far away from each other ?

I can't see any forwards being available who can make the difference and am not sure changes in formation alone will be enough .

 

[striebs]

I think we just need to stop worrying about the teams around us and start playing VIndaloo football......"were gonna score one more than you" It will get the fans back enjoying going to the games and spur the players on. scoring goals wins games. and lets be honest we just havent been doing that in the league.

I appreciate this is a very simplistic view but it seemed to work for Mr Jol.

And Mr Wenger .

I'm not confident we have the personnel to do it though .

 

[alextheyid]

good post!! good read...interesting depite brutally true and depressing!

 

[billnick]

Sitting here 7,000 miles from WHL, I couldn't possibly comment.

I think you're a tiny bit nearer than I am.

Nice article though, BBLG - I'm not sure of the statistics but I think the only "defensive frailty" we could hope to improve upon is distribution and retention. Be that with work on midfielders' spatial awareness, defenders' passing or a mix of things. All to often after succesful defense of an opposition attack, we're defending again before having a chance to regroup. That's not a new problem, but it's something we got away with for a time before our entire first choice strike team flew the nest.

 

[haxman]

Rep for a good post. Some interesting stuff in there.

 

[onthetwo]

The summer before we sacked bmj we signed bent, kaboul, bale, taarabt and boateng. I think its fair to say that every one of those players has been a big disappointment. We have struggled ever since and that struggle lead in part to our strikers wanting to leave. That was the summer where we grasped mediocrity from the grasp of the top-4. Had we signed proven premiership players I'd bet that we would have consolidated our position in and around the top-5 and bmj would still be in charge.

 

[jolsnogross]

Nice post BBLG. We agreed on a different thread yesterday - our dire lack of attacking is what's killing us. Getting even more defensive will not get us out of trouble. History shows that the relegation dog-fight teams that survive are the ones who go for it and and wrack up some goals in the run in. Those that play for 0-0 and 1-0 usually don't make it.

One point I'd make is that yesterday showed how terrible a footballer Zokora is. He obviously shouldn't be in the team if King is the defensive mid, but I'd argue now that he shouldn't be in there at all. I think we could play King and Hudd together, with O'Hara and Lennon wider.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Nice post BBLG. We agreed on a different thread yesterday - our dire lack of attacking is what's killing us. Getting even more defensive will not get us out of trouble. History shows that the relegation dog-fight teams that survive are the ones who go for it and and wrack up some goals in the run in. Those that play for 0-0 and 1-0 usually don't make it.

One point I'd make is that yesterday showed how terrible a footballer Zokora is. He obviously shouldn't be in the team if King is the defensive mid, but I'd argue now that he shouldn't be in there at all. I think we could play King and Hudd together, with O'Hara and Lennon wider.

That would fit in very nicely with my suggestion above, though perhaps that could be for when solidity is required, with Modric and Jenas being the alternatives for when we need to go for the throat (such as the upcoming must win Pompy and Stoke games).

The beauty of it is that in reality it will remain three central players, with Lennon having the option to switch to the other flank if he is struggling against his marker.

 

[dickieven]

Good post BBLG. Similar to on another thread re the lack of creativity in our team. There are some good stats re assists in the premier league this season.....

The Providers Team Assists
Steed Malbranque Sunderland 8
Emmanuel Adebayor Arsenal 7
Dimitar Berbatov Manchester United 7
Ashley Young Aston Villa 7

Also Keane is in the top 20 as well. This is where we are missing out this year. It is not Berbatov & Keane's goals that we are missing so much but their creative play, their ability to create space and chances for others. I was a huge fan of Malbranque as he also was similarly creative. This season up front with Bent, Pav and now Defoe they are finishers who need the supply. This is what we need to sort out.

Modric, Lennon, Hudd etc have the ability but they are just not delivering...yet. This season there is more pressure on the midfield to produce this creativty as the forwards won't.

sorry waffling and repeating myself now so i'll stop but it is 3amhere. This is obviously the thread for the KL branch of the supporters club!!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Berbatov in fact as of the weekend we just had has now got 8 assists this season, so basically the two current best assistors in the league played for us last season. Happy times!

 

[2bearis2do]

What worries me most, is that we all agree that we are in a battle for survival.

I think our defensive unit isn´t too shabby now.

What worries me is that Harry wants to battle his way out of a battle when we don´t have battlers.

We can´t beat the Stokes, Wigans, Boltons, West Broms of this world by trying to match them in the battling department. We don´t have the players.

So we should be playing to our perceived strengths and that is as a passing team, passing comes with confidence, not trying to make passing players battlers.

We have to pass our way out of trouble. We have the players to do that. But does Harry have the gumption to do it?

Hudd and Modric must play. OHara and Lennon must play. Defoe and Pav must play and the foundation of the back five is already there.

Play that team week in and week out and we´ll be fine.

It really shouldn´t be more complicated than that?!?!?

 

[JimmyG2]

If only life was so simple.Pick your best eleven and play them every week.Ignore injuries,suspensions,home advantage,playing different teams with different strengths,the fact that you have a squad to keep involved,the fact that substitutions can save or make a game,that going 1 up or 1 down early or late on can call for different tactics and require different personnel, the fact that players lose form,the problem that new managers don't really know their squads and want their own players brought in and so on and so on.
BBLG will know that statistics can be very misleading.Lose 1-0 eight games in a row and then win two 4-0 gives you a poor points total but a seemingly effective attacking and offensive record.
If Ledley can only play once every three games at centre half and doesn't train how can he play in midfield. How can O'hara, who I like, be preferred to Modric who is a class above all our other players and who Harry is building the team round.
I agree with the thrust of the article that defensively we are sound and in my view it is the misfiring attack that needs better support from midfield.The return of Defoe might help but instant rapport with either Pavlyuchenko or Bent or whoever might be brought in is unlikely.
I would like to see a number of the squad players more involved and one or two of the younger players.Harry has had opportunities to play them and not done so.
Balance is important to a team because it enables them to switch the point of attack and create space.It prevents the attack becoming predictable. But playing Bentley and Lennon weakens the midfield and I prefer Lennon on current form.In fact Bale and Ekotto have effectively capitalised on the space created by Lennon being double marked to put in a number of effective crosses.Bentley is an effective back up for Lennon.
The midfield is where selection problems start.I would always have Modric and Jenas,when available as they are hard workers and possess the necessary skills to open up defences.Huddleston though he is a little slow and clumsy is a top class passer of the ball and again has the ability to open up a defence and has a good shot.
Zokora who you cant help but like ,if kept on a tight rein, can be effective but his limitations probably mean that he should be replaced by a better player,maybe Appiah when he is match fit.
That we can play well on special occasions shows that there is not much wrong squad but there is a 'mental' problem with the team and I'm not sure that Harry can solve it.
Switching between love and hate for his team speaks of a manager out of his depth.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

If only life was so simple.Pick your best eleven and play them every week.Ignore injuries,suspensions,home advantage,playing different teams with different strengths,the fact that you have a squad to keep involved,the fact that substitutions can save or make a game,that going 1 up or 1 down early or late on can call for different tactics and require different personnel, the fact that players lose form,the problem that new managers don't really know their squads and want their own players brought in and so on and so on.
BBLG will know that statistics can be very misleading.Lose 1-0 eight games in a row and then win two 4-0 gives you a poor points total but a seemingly effective attacking and offensive record.
If Ledley can only play once every three games at centre half and doesn't train how can he play in midfield. How can O'hara, who I like, be preferred to Modric who is a class above all our other players and who Harry is building the team round.
I agree with the thrust of the article that defensively we are sound and in my view it is the misfiring attack that needs better support from midfield.The return of Defoe might help but instant rapport with either Pavlyuchenko or Bent or whoever might be brought in is unlikely.
I would like to see a number of the squad players more involved and one or two of the younger players.Harry has had opportunities to play them and not done so.
Balance is important to a team because it enables them to switch the point of attack and create space.It prevents the attack becoming predictable. But playing Bentley and Lennon weakens the midfield and I prefer Lennon on current form.In fact Bale and Ekotto have effectively capitalised on the space created by Lennon being double marked to put in a number of effective crosses.Bentley is an effective back up for Lennon.
The midfield is where selection problems start.I would always have Modric and Jenas,when available as they are hard workers and possess the necessary skills to open up defences.Huddleston though he is a little slow and clumsy is a top class passer of the ball and again has the ability to open up a defence and has a good shot.
Zokora who you cant help but like ,if kept on a tight rein, can be effective but his limitations probably mean that he should be replaced by a better player,maybe Appiah when he is match fit.
That we can play well on special occasions shows that there is not much wrong squad but there is a 'mental' problem with the team and I'm not sure that Harry can solve it.
Switching between love and hate for his team speaks of a manager out of his depth.

Oh the formation stuff in the article was just to give the article some flair and variation instead of just being a piece about pointing out the obvious, i.e. defence is ok, attack is not, but the substantial point i was trying to make, and I believe you did recognise, is that people need to stop panicking about us wanting this centre back or that defensive midfielder or right back, because it is very much going forward where we suffer.

 

[2bearis2do]

If only life was so simple.Pick your best eleven and play them every week.Ignore injuries,suspensions,home advantage,playing different teams with different strengths,the fact that you have a squad to keep involved,the fact that substitutions can save or make a game,that going 1 up or 1 down early or late on can call for different tactics and require different personnel, the fact that players lose form,the problem that new managers don't really know their squads and want their own players brought in and so on and so on.
BBLG will know that statistics can be very misleading.Lose 1-0 eight games in a row and then win two 4-0 gives you a poor points total but a seemingly effective attacking and offensive record.
If Ledley can only play once every three games at centre half and doesn't train how can he play in midfield. How can O'hara, who I like, be preferred to Modric who is a class above all our other players and who Harry is building the team round.
I agree with the thrust of the article that defensively we are sound and in my view it is the misfiring attack that needs better support from midfield.The return of Defoe might help but instant rapport with either Pavlyuchenko or Bent or whoever might be brought in is unlikely.
I would like to see a number of the squad players more involved and one or two of the younger players.Harry has had opportunities to play them and not done so.
Balance is important to a team because it enables them to switch the point of attack and create space.It prevents the attack becoming predictable. But playing Bentley and Lennon weakens the midfield and I prefer Lennon on current form.In fact Bale and Ekotto have effectively capitalised on the space created by Lennon being double marked to put in a number of effective crosses.Bentley is an effective back up for Lennon.
The midfield is where selection problems start.I would always have Modric and Jenas,when available as they are hard workers and possess the necessary skills to open up defences.Huddleston though he is a little slow and clumsy is a top class passer of the ball and again has the ability to open up a defence and has a good shot.
Zokora who you cant help but like ,if kept on a tight rein, can be effective but his limitations probably mean that he should be replaced by a better player,maybe Appiah when he is match fit.
That we can play well on special occasions shows that there is not much wrong squad but there is a 'mental' problem with the team and I'm not sure that Harry can solve it.
Switching between love and hate for his team speaks of a manager out of his depth.

Good points jimmy. I was way too simplistic in my final team selection.

But really my point was we shouldn´t change personel to battle our way out of a battle. We should stick to our strengths. And I too believe balance is the key to any good team. Hence the difference O Hara makes and the need to play players in their correct positions. And have a squad where this shape is maintained to cover for injury etc.

To be a consistently good team we do need consistent shape (sure with tactical changes where it is obviously required). But no one knew what they were doing in the first half v Wigan. Harry even admits he shouldn´t play Bentley on the left but he has time and again. I´m afraid I have little confidence in Harrys current approach to our malaise.