The rule

[kitchen]

So it's happened. Chelsea won, our club will no doubt be discussing the plan of action for future progress this week.

What really annoyed me about last night is the stupidity of the rule and i've made this point on another thread. Chelsea are allowed to compete in the CL next year as holding champions, in a cup competition where anything can happen, and as we saw - it did...

Yet in their domestic league, the place where they play 38 games across a season and should have put in most of their good work, they came 6th. 2 places outside of the usual CL qualifying position. If our league is so strong that the 6th placed team can win the CL then we should be given an extra place. Ditto if the same thing were to happen in another overseas league.

With the rule as it is, Chelsea could have been fighting for relegation all season and finished 17th and still taken our CL place, the one we should have rightly earnt through consistent work in a long season. The main work they did all year and the majority of matches they played meant sod all. They might as well have fielded their reserves all season in the PL. they could still have a CL trophy, automatic qualification and an FA cup.

The rule is badly thought out and needs to be addressed IMO.

 

[dontcallme]

Disagree. It's easy to follow and clear from the beginning. This is the nature of cup competitions

 

[kitchen]

Disagree. It's easy to follow and clear from the beginning. This is the nature of cup competitions

So you think that it's ok that they only finished 6th. If they had fielded their reserves in the league all season and come 16th/17th would it have been ok because the rule is 'clear and easy to follow'?

I know they wouldn't have taken the risk and hedged all their bets on winning the CL but that's what could happen. I just think it needs a rethink. That is all.

 

[kernowspur]

Stop complaining about the rule. Would you think it stupid if we had won the CL and only finished 6th? We have only ourselves to blame for not finishing third, and the main culprip is Redknapp.

 

[Montasura]

Disagree. It's easy to follow and clear from the beginning. This is the nature of cup competitions

This.

We have known about this rule now for a long, long time. It is what it is and we should accept that. What if we were in Chelsea's shoes, we wouldn't be complaining then. What if we had finished 3rd and Arsenal 4th? We would all be laughing our tits off right now.

The simple truth is that our situation is the result of our team completely folding a very good hand of cards.

 

[PT]

Spurs not being in the Champions League draw is not about rules and precedents; more about Spurs performance last season.

 

[dontcallme]

So you think that it's ok that they only finished 6th. If they had fielded their reserves in the league all season and come 16th/17th would it have been ok because the rule is 'clear and easy to follow'?

I know they wouldn't have taken the risk and hedged all their bets on winning the CL but that's what could happen. I just think it needs a rethink. That is all.

It's certainly not what I hope to happen. If they fielded reserves all season in the league and kept their first tem only for the CL they would have deveoped the dumbest and most high risk strategy in world football.

Why should England have more than 4 places in the CL? On the extremely rare occassion that a team wins it and finish outside the top four it is more important they defend their trophy than the team that gets 4th take the place.

 

[fortworthspur]

the champion gets to defend their title. Makes sense to me.

 

[AngerManagement]

I am at the stage now where I don't even care that we don't have CL football

All I am interested in now is who we are going to sign and whether or not we can keep our best players

Fuck it hopefully we'll light up the Europa on a thursday night and win it and the Goons laughing their arse off now will be laughing on the other side of their face next year when RVP has fucked off and Wenger replaces him with another failure from teh French league and they fail to progress out their cl group and have another season without silverware

 

[shaqTHFC]

If Chelsea go through automatically, who takes the qualifying spot because Arsenal apparently don't?

I am at the stage now where I don't even care that we don't have CL football

All I am interested in now is who we are going to sign and whether or not we can keep our best players

Fuck it hopefully we'll light up the Europa on a thursday night and win it and the Goons laughing their arse off now will be laughing on the other side of their face next year when RVP has fucked off and Wenger replaces him with another failure from teh French league and they fail to progress out their cl group and have another season without silverware

It's not the missing out on a competition that we won't win that upsets me, it's the potential dismantling of our squad. If we were to win the Europa League I'd love it and this year it was more entertaining than the CL.

 

[tototoner]

It is all Liverpool's fault

 

[ShelfSide18]

I think that we have earned the right to take our place in the Champions League next season, our implosion meant we ended up being hopelessly hostage to fortune, but we still were 4th best and deserve our place in the tournament. Essentially 90 minutes in Munich has invalidated our entire season. We shot ourselves in the foot big time, but last night we had that foot cut off by someone else.

I do also believe however, that Chelsea having won the tournament fully deserve to defend their trophy, so if we both were allowed in then someone, somewhere is going to lose out which would be incredibly unfair on whoever that would be.

I just want to be in the Champions League so desperately, we got such a delicious taste of it, nights like beating European Champions Inter at WHL, just being able to line-up on the same turf against the likes of AC Milan and Real Madrid on merit, and the crowning glory of winning in the San Siro with the most glorious performance. I want that back, every time I've heard the Champions League music this season was horrible because we weren't there. I just cannot believe we're not going to be there next season, especially when we fully deserve to be.

 

[StartingPrice]

I am at the stage now where I don't even care that we don't have CL football

All I am interested in now is who we are going to sign and whether or not we can keep our best players

Fuck it hopefully we'll light up the Europa on a thursday night and win it and the Goons laughing their arse off now will be laughing on the other side of their face next year when RVP has fucked off and Wenger replaces him with another failure from teh French league and they fail to progress out their cl group and have another season without silverware

I'm not actually that concerned about not being in the CL - I am concerned, however, about the massive lost revenues, due to an ill-thought out, and poorly implemented rule. We won't be doing a Leeds, Dan levy is far too smart for that - but missing out on these revenues put Leeds into a tailspin,and the FA/UEFA had that evidence before them when they reached their new ruling (to legitimise their accomodation of Liverpool).

No, the rule hasn't been the same and easy to follow since the beginning - if it had been, Liverpool wouldn't have had to whinge their way into the competition, as winnners...with Everton allowed to remain in the competition.

My primary concern is that when they adjusted this ruling (to accomodate Liverpool), they thought only of allowing the CL winners to defend their title and didn;t give one seconds thought to the team they were denying a huge revenue that, by their own ruling prior to the Liverpool result, they had rightfully earned.

Yeah, we did feck it up...but honourable mention has to go to Chris Foy, the FA handing of Redknapp-Gate, and Marton Fulop, amongst others.

 

[AngerManagement]

I'm not actually that concerned about not being in the CL - I am concerned, however, about the massive lost revenues, due to an ill-thought out, and poorly implemented rule. We won't be doing a Leeds, Dan levy is far too smart for that - but missing out on these revenues put Leeds into a tailspin,and the FA/UEFA had that evidence before them when they reached their new ruling (to legitimise their accomodation of Liverpool).

No, the rule hasn't been the same and easy to follow since the beginning - if it had been, Liverpool wouldn't have had to whinge their way into the competition, as winnners...with Everton allowed to remain in the competition.

My primary concern is that when they adjusted this ruling (to accomodate Liverpool), they thought only of allowing the CL winners to defend their title and didn;t give one seconds thought to the team they were denying a huge revenue that, by their own ruling prior to the Liverpool result, they had rightfully earned.

Yeah, we did feck it up...but honourable mention has to go to Chris Foy, the FA handing of Redknapp-Gate, and Marton Fulop, amongst others.

Its not lost revenue as such, its just revenue we will not make this year (if you see the difference)

Leeds basically gambled on becoming a CL regular and set their budget to it

We're in the same position we would have been had we came fifth, which just as easily could have happened. We were never guaranteed that revenue and even had Chelsea lost we may well have not made it to the group stage.

Its a shame, it would have been nice to be in the CL again and nice to benefit from the extra revenue but its not something worth dwelling on really. If Levy thinks its that terrible an incident hopefully he will look at his decision not to invest in the window when we could have aimed to back a title push instead of focusing on a rule that while somewhat unfair was well known to us before the season started and something we knew was a possibility ever since Chelsea beat Napoli

It really is about time Uefa did something to increase the value and prestige of the EUropa league

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think that we have earned the right to take our place in the Champions League next season, our implosion meant we ended up being hopelessly hostage to fortune, but we still were 4th best and deserve our place in the tournament. Essentially 90 minutes in Munich has invalidated our entire season. We shot ourselves in the foot big time, but last night we had that foot cut off by someone else.

I do also believe however, that Chelsea having won the tournament fully deserve to defend their trophy, so if we both were allowed in then someone, somewhere is going to lose out which would be incredibly unfair on whoever that would be.

I just want to be in the Champions League so desperately, we got such a delicious taste of it, nights like beating European Champions Inter at WHL, just being able to line-up on the same turf against the likes of AC Milan and Real Madrid on merit, and the crowning glory of winning in the San Siro with the most glorious performance. I want that back, every time I've heard the Champions League music this season was horrible because we weren't there. I just cannot believe we're not going to be there next season, especially when we fully deserve to be.

I would echo all of those sentiments. We really only have ourselves to blame and to a degree and there will always be an element of lottery involved with 4th place, we nearly came unstuck last year before we even got there.

A fair solution would be for us and Chelsea to play off, but after Wembley I wouldn't be confident we'd be in the CL next season.

A few years ago we took a UEFA cup spot by winning the CCup and finishing half way down the table. Even more ridiculous is losing FA Cup finalists taking UEFA places. I've always said these rules are wrong. If cup victories (and losses) are going to be rewarded it should not be at the expense of the hardest task of all in football, that of achieving consistency over a league season. It sends the wrong message and promotes the wrong ethos. Should a handful games be as worthy of merit as 38 ?

 

[AngerManagement]

Fuck it, I'm up for the Europa now

 

[Ray_Evans]

The rule is the rule. However, I've no interest in the Europa league, & I think we should treat it like the goons treat the league cup.

 

[StartingPrice]

Its not lost revenue as such, its just revenue we will not make this year (if you see the difference)

Leeds basically gambled on becoming a CL regular and set their budget to it

We're in the same position we would have been had we came fifth, which just as easily could have happened. We were never guaranteed that revenue and even had Chelsea lost we may well have not made it to the group stage.

Its a shame, it would have been nice to be in the CL again and nice to benefit from the extra revenue but its not something worth dwelling on really. If Levy thinks its that terrible an incident hopefully he will look at his decision not to invest in the window when we could have aimed to back a title push instead of focusing on a rule that while somewhat unfair was well known to us before the season started and something we knew was a possibility ever since Chelsea beat Napoli

It really is about time Uefa did something to increase the value and prestige of the EUropa league

I see the distinction you are making, and doagree, up to a point.
We would have been guaranteed some of that revenue, and it would have been nice to have got the chance at the rest.
My main beefs, are that they were clearly focussed on allowing the CL winners the chance to defend their title, and I don't think they even thought about the implications for the side they were, somewhat arbitrarily comdemning to miss out. And, secondly, as said elsewhere, if they an change the ruling to the advantage of Liverpool, without harming Everton, as a point of principlpe, why shouldn't we ask them to do the same.

In regard to the Europa, I have been saying this for years, now - to me it is basically the same comp as the old EUFA Cup, just revamped, and that was a trophy to win, back in the day. I think it should have the same respect now.

 

[StartingPrice]

The rule is the rule. However, I've no interest in the Europa league, & I think we should treat it like the goons treat the league cup.

The rule was the rule when Liverpool won the CL...they managed to change it for them, without harming Everton.

 

[Star_of_Davids]

The rules are the rules and we knew them at the beginning of the season. What is ridiculous though is that if a team with only 3 CL places had won the competition but come 4th or lower in their league, that country would have been given an extra CL place. An extra place could therefore be found in the competition. UEFA however set a limit of 4 places per country so in our situation a 5th place cannot be given. It would be ridiculous if the holders weren't allowed to defend their trophy but the rule is unfair and a 5th place can't be given.
As I said at the beginning we knew the rules at the beginning of the season, and knew that we needed to finish 3rd to qualify. I'm not even angry about the Norwich result, all teams have bad days, United lost at home to Blackburn for heaven's sake. The only result that really annoys me was Villa away where we were all over them and Harry brought Parker on in the 89th minute. I don't want to hear Harry saying 'we finished 4th, in any other year that would be CL', yes we finished 4th which was an achievement but this year you needed to finish 3rd