WalkerboyUK
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- Jun 8, 2009
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Dana White has said that if Rousey wins at 207 she will face Cyborg next.
the UFC thread
- Thread starter mil1lion
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mil1lion
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- May 7, 2004
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I dont like the 10 point must system. It always seems silly to me that 2 guys can have a terrible round and one of them gets a 10 on the judges score card (the same score a great round would score a fighter). I'd like to see 9-8 rounds introduced along with 9-9 & 10-10 rounds and more 10-8 rounds awarded in dominant situations. The current scoring system just seems far too restricted. We hardly see 10-8 round these days so most rounds are 10-9 to whoever won regardless of whether one fighter was clearly on top or whether they scrape the round. It takes a near finish or complete dominance to score 10-8. They need to distinguish more between the rounds as to who clearly won and which rounds were very close to call.
In this fight you could have scored the first round 10-9 to Hendo because he hurt Bisping bad but Bisping was on top before that so that wasn't enough for a 10-8 but he won the round with the biggest moment. The 2nd round could have been a 10-10 since Hendo dropped Bisping again but was not was close to stopping him this time and Bisping was in control before that again. Rounds 3 and 4 were 10-9 to Bisping and the final round could have been drawn at 9-9 since they were both evenly mathched but not as effective as in round 2. That would make it 48-47 to Bisping which I think is a good reflection of how close the fight was as a whole but really Bisping only clearly lost 1 round and clearly won 2.
If they drop the 10 point must system I think it will motivate fighters a bit more. At the moment they know as long as they edge a round out they get 10 on the score card. That's not fair on fighters who really go for the win.
I assume the 10 point must system was implemented as a carry over from boxing
Most likely because it would make the scoring easily accessible to the western audience who were already familiar with it from boxing
Obviously the 10-8 rounds needed to change as a knock down doesn't lead to a break in action in mma but the flaw (the biggest flaw in my eyes) centres around the advantage it gives to lay and pray wrestling
A 5 round fight could see a fighter light his opponent up and nearly finish him in the final round but because his opponent had scored a take down and spent most of the previous 4 rounds in a dominant position (doing nothing significant but enough to stop the fight being brought back to the feet) he would walk away with a landslide victory
I don't think this fight was actually that controversial in it's scoring - most experts and commentators seem to have also scored it 48-47 to Bisping and only really those voting with their hearts suggesting Hendo should have actually got the nod but there have been plenty of occasions where the nature of the 10 point must system and round by round scoring in general results in a decision that while technically correct really doesn't reflect what went on in the fight in terms of damage done etc
It isn't an issue of just who did the most damage though, fans might prefer damage (We all do) but at the end of the day it is a sport and an art. Like boxing one knock down or even two knockdowns will not bring you a victory if you were out boxed for the rest of the fight and for 3 and a half of those 4 rounds Bisping very much out struck Henderson (so much so that it's not unreasonable to even give him the second despite the knock down due to his previous work in the round, though I still gave it to Henderson)
I still think the Pride scoring system was better
Fights judged as a whole rather than points awarded round by round with the following criteria influencing the judging (in order of importance/influence)
1. The effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission.
2. Damage to opponent.
3. Standing combinations & ground control.
4. Aggressiveness.
I'm sure there would still be plenty of controversy at decisions though, I'm also sure that people would complain that it is unfair to fighters who are defensively skilled and their aim is to counter strike etc but I don't suppose any method will appease everyone
fatpiranha
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Take downs shouldn't mean anything unless they result in damage. If someone gets slammed then fine that counts but grabbing a double leg and lying on someone for 5 minutes shouldn't mean you automatically win the round. Strikes from the bottom position never seem to get any credit and they should.
I don't think the scoring system needs much of an adjustment to fix it. 10-8 for a overwhelmingly dominant round. 10-9 for a clear win. Everything else (including 'lay and pray') gets 10-10.
I don't think the scoring system needs much of an adjustment to fix it. 10-8 for a overwhelmingly dominant round. 10-9 for a clear win. Everything else (including 'lay and pray') gets 10-10.
mil1lion
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That's the trouble with grappling in MMA. You get close rounds where a fighter will go for a takedown near the end of the round to essentially win them the round. That shouldn't be considered enough to win a round alone. When Hendo scored a trip takedown on Bisping in the 5th round I don't think that was enough to win the round, I think the round was equal. The same goes for striking, if you trip an opponent or catch them off balance it's not the same as a clean knockdown and the 2 shouldn' be seen as equal.
I hope this will be one of the improvements made in MMA over the years to come. It's not so bad in boxing because the judges are scoring up to 12 rounds so even the odd bad call for a round doesn't hold a huge impact on a fight. Judging on just 3 rounds as in MMA is where it can be really costly.
I hope this will be one of the improvements made in MMA over the years to come. It's not so bad in boxing because the judges are scoring up to 12 rounds so even the odd bad call for a round doesn't hold a huge impact on a fight. Judging on just 3 rounds as in MMA is where it can be really costly.
If connor and khabib both win Ferguson is likely to have to wait longer for his shot
It wouldn't surprise me if connor made a featherweight defense against frankie Edgar if he wins first either (depending on the weight cut)
Or god forbid a money making freak show against mayweather instead of having to fight one of the murderers row challengers at 155
Maybe but Khabib should be the one to wait because he was two years out injured.
It would surprise me, the Frankie Edgar ship has sailed now, he would still be a good match up for Connor but there is nothing to be gained from it. I think if he wins he will most likely fight Diaz, that would make the most the money. If he comes the through that, there is nowhere for him to hide, he would have to fight Ferguson or Khabib.
The Mayweather fight won't happen unless Connor can dominate the lightweight division.
I think Connor has a lot of clout to dictate his next moves
He's the big money star - whatever he does will make big money for the ufc
I don't think it really matters what SHOULD happen sometimes when it comes to ufc (not when connor is involved anyway)
I think it he beats Alvarez he and they will be looking for the best fight they can make the will make the most money and be the least risk
If he can make another 145 cut then that's a possibility in my eyes because there's arguably bigger name fighters there that pose less of a risk to the mcgregor gravy train
The 155 lb top contenders are not really big names outside of the mma world and they're pretty much all very tough competition for Connor (so pretty high risk and low reward)
I don't see him bothering with Aldo again because again he has next to nothing to gain - he isn't going to much the 13 second knock so it's only going be levels of regression
If Edgar can win in style at 205 and connor can make 145 I could see then making a 145 defence between the pair in new York as both guys have a big following there and the fight would sell well
Other than that - if connor is ever going to fight Floyd for huge money in needs to be done while his stock is as high as it is now so they can capitalise and cash in
Cleaning up the division won't do much to increase his stock because he's already the biggest name in the sport (it would just stop the hard core fans moaning that he should he taking care of business in the ufc instead of doing freak exhibition boxing matches for large money)
One loss he can't avenge and his mystic gets busted and that fight with Floyd doesnt sell
so if they ever have any real intention of making it it could well be while his name is at its hottest as the first 2 weight world champ (only down hill from there imo)
Although I still can't believe they actually will make it - if they have any intention that would probably be the best time
What you say makes sense but the one thing you may have underestimated is Connor's pride, it's going to sting him if MMA fans point to the fact he is avoiding Ferguson and Khabib. Remember this is a guy who was going to fight RDA and then Lawler for the welterweight title if he had won.
He may have had a reality check as far as the welterweight title is concerned but I still take my hat off to him for fighting at that weight. Just the build up and press conferences if Connor were to fight Ferguson would be box office alone. Ferguson is intense, he's got charisma and he's intelligent. He won't sit there and take it, like Edgar would. Remember also that Dana said that Connor would have to give up one of his belts. I know Dana is full of shit but this time he is serious I think.
I think it's better for Connor to face Ferguson or Khabib and go down fighting than avoiding them like a coward and taking on less worthy competition.
I'd say you're right about connor's pride - but also his self belief
I don't think he thinks the same way I do in regards to how difficult the rightful challengers are to him at 155
I'm sure he has full belief in his ability to beat them
I don't think Dana will strip Conor though - regardless of what he says. I think it's in his and the ufc's interest as much as it's in connor's interest to have him as the 2 weight world champ for a bit
Although I think he will eventually vacate and probably without ever defending the 145lb title again
But I think theyd want him to go in to another fight wearing both belts and having all the promotional stuff that goes with that
Khabib is the guy who has supposedly signed 2 contacts for his title shot and I think dana has as much as said the next shot is his so I think if connor does take on a 155 defence should he beat eddie it's more likely to be him than Ferguson personally
I can't rule our the mayweather fight though - as stupid as it sounds and as much of a mismatch as it would he in a Boxing ring - the money it would generate if connor could go in to it with 2 ufc belts against the biggest and best name in boxing would talk I think
It's not that difficult to be fair
Lol his coach is saying that Connor hasn't said anything about giving up a belt.
I don't think the Mayweather fight will happen no one will give Connor the kind of money he is looking for.
I don't think he will give up his belt - I doubt the ufc would even want him to right away
It all adds to the money train
As for the money - he'd be getting pay per view points so largely depends on how much the freak show would sell
Money is the only reason to take such a pointless fight
Other than that I think he may struggle to even make 145 again - he looked half dead in the weigh in to the Aldo fight
Without being allowed to rehydrate with IV's it probably isn't wise anymore
I personally don't like his chances against the rest of the division at 155
Maybe his best option would be the trilogy with Nate for the belt should he win - probably sell the most PPV buys and at least he's already shown he can hang with Nate
Only people who buy into his image and who barely know about boxing or MMA are going to pay for that shit. Maybe people will pay to see his arse get handed to him but I find it hard to believe that he is disliked more than Mayweather.
Yeah the 145 division he looks terrible, I wonder how Ferguson would look. The featherweight division is a dead divison right now, he would only fight Edgar and the only thing he would get from that is proving he can beat wrestlers.
I think he will do the trilogy and if he wins be will have to fight the best of the 155. There will be so much pressure for him to do so, that he be will be compelled to do it. I'd give him a punchers chance at best.
yea but it's the casual fans buys that make the actual money in my opinion
That's why fighters like Connor and Floyd generate so much more than their peers - their appeal transcends the catchment area of their respective sports
People will buy in to the hype and think (especially if Connor knocks out Eddie) he will only need to land once on Floyd to end the fight and create history
The two of them could easily sell the fight well with their ability to hype a fight to a large audience and I think you'd be surprised by how much money it could generate (even the people who think it's a total farce would still buy it just to watch it play out - well a lot would imo)
The last two years I've been in Vegas and watched a fair amount of US sports TV and it's evident that the Floyd/Conor fight would be a big deal out there because it gets a lot more coverage than any other mma or boxing fight and it's not even an actual fight just a hypothetical (there was more talk about Connor fighting Floyd after he beat Nate on US tv than the Olympics, boxing, MMA or pretty much any sport other than NFL)
Connor made an excellent point re. the 145lb division - what happens to the weightclass if the man who was champ has to give his belt to the man he knocked senseless in 13 seconds? It makes a sham of the belt and it would as Connor said "bury the division in the prelims" - they probably need someone else to make a name for themselves down there, not Aldo and not someone Aldo has already beaten. Maybe if Stephens beats Edgar in sensational fashion or Holloway destroys Pettis one of those could become a name in the division?
I'm not even overlooking 205 at the moment - I think Connor has a tough task on his hands already
If he gets by that and fights Nate again - I think that's an equally tough task
He the path takes him that way and he's successful in both I think he really struggles if he has to fight someone like Khabib
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