The VAR Thread

[muppetman]

I personally think in football there has to be some increased threshold of a pen once the ball has been hit, e.g. if the striker gets his shot away and a defender trips him after the shot has taken place it shouldn't be treated exactly the same as if the striker makes a dribble and is in control of the ball and the defender trips him.

I'm not sure I agree with this. If a player gets kicked in the air (to use an extreme example) after he's got his shot away it should still be a foul. Surely, an offense is an offense regardless of when it happens?

I realise it's not implemented this way, but it's always confused me. Trying to recall who it was - Mason maybe, who scored a goal and got clattered just after which meant he missed the next few games but the defender wasn't punished in any way, which struck me as unfair.

 

[Timberwolf]

However, Vicario takes down three Brentford player in the box, and it's not a penalty.

You could argue that it was consistent, in terms of keepers fouling off the ball.

Yeah this is a good point. At what point do you draw the line between the ball being played and the keeper touching the player to make it a foul?

The Onana situation is very similar to the Vicario one: both keepers took a player out a split second after the ball was played, yet one is deemed much more controversial than the other.

The main difference I can see is that Schade lumped the ball out of play whereas the ball was still in play following the header by the Wolves player that Onana clattered into. I'm unclear whether that's a distinction in the rules, though

 

[thekneaf]

Yeah this is a good point. At what point do you draw the line between the ball being played and the keeper touching the player to make it a foul?

The Onana situation is very similar to the Vicario one: both keepers took a player out a split second after the ball was played, yet one is deemed much more controversial than the other.

The main difference I can see is that Schade lumped the ball out of play whereas the ball was still in play following the header by the Wolves player that Onana clattered into. I'm unclear whether that's a distinction in the rules, though

That's the only distinction, but the rules as played say that ours wasn't a pen, it would have been if he'd tried to go around Vicario. Strictly speaking a foul is a foul though.

 

[chas vs dave]

Yeah this is a good point. At what point do you draw the line between the ball being played and the keeper touching the player to make it a foul?

The Onana situation is very similar to the Vicario one: both keepers took a player out a split second after the ball was played, yet one is deemed much more controversial than the other.

The main difference I can see is that Schade lumped the ball out of play whereas the ball was still in play following the header by the Wolves player that Onana clattered into. I'm unclear whether that's a distinction in the rules, though

Yes, but the player wasn't in control of the ball, it had already left his head.

It's a bit like the son penalty. It wasn't a deliberate foul, he's been caught with his trailing leg. The player won the foul by collapsing when he knew he didn't have the ball. He was clever, and threw his other leg back. The movement looks unnatural.

I'm not sure, however intent and whether they have impeded the player are the lost salient points, imo.

Don't get me started on slow motion replays, as everything looks a lot worse in those.

 

[Timberwolf]

Yes, but the player wasn't in control of the ball, it had already left his head.

It's a bit like the son penalty. It wasn't a deliberate foul, he's been caught with his trailing leg. The player won the foul by collapsing when he knew he didn't have the ball. He was clever, and threw his other leg back. The movement looks unnatural.

I'm not sure, however intent and whether they have impeded the player are the lost salient points, imo.

Don't get me started on slow motion replays, as everything looks a lot worse in those.

True, but at least in the case of Schade you could claim he's getting double advantage if the pen is given: he gets an attempt at goal (which could've gone in if he'd got a better touch) OR a pen if the attempt misses.

The Wolves player wasn't taking a shot and merely headed the ball up in the air, so surely the fact that the ball is still in play is important as that Wolves player was now flattened and incapable of being involved in the following phase of play.

 

[Misfit]

MSN

www.msn.com

"The PGMOL, the referees’ body, has stood down referee Simon Hooper and the two Video Assistant Referees and apologised for the failure to award Wolverhampton Wanderers a penalty in their 1-0 defeat by Manchester United."

Thank goodness VAR has rid the game of obvious decisions being missed all the time. And all for the small price of completely sucking the joy and spontaneity out of the moments football is meant to live for.

 

[Dakes]

MSN

www.msn.com

"The PGMOL, the referees’ body, has stood down referee Simon Hooper and the two Video Assistant Referees and apologised for the failure to award Wolverhampton Wanderers a penalty in their 1-0 defeat by Manchester United."

Thank goodness VAR has rid the game of obvious decisions being missed all the time. And all for the small price of completely sucking the joy and spontaneity out of the moments football is meant to live for.

Was just about to mention this. What good does an apology do to Wolves? It won't give them points, nor will it deduct points from United.

What if Wolves end up in a relegation scrap at the end of the season? The point from last night could end up being crucial.

The officiating is terrible, even with the assistance of VAR.

Hopefully this debacle will put a spotlight on the officiating of matches going forward and the referees will be carefully watched, thereby making them think carefully about their decision making.

 

[SlotBadger]

MSN

www.msn.com

"The PGMOL, the referees’ body, has stood down referee Simon Hooper and the two Video Assistant Referees and apologised for the failure to award Wolverhampton Wanderers a penalty in their 1-0 defeat by Manchester United."

Thank goodness VAR has rid the game of obvious decisions being missed all the time. And all for the small price of completely sucking the joy and spontaneity out of the moments football is meant to live for.

I feel a bit sorry for Simon Hooper here. He didn't give the decision on the field, but I don't think anybody is blaming him for the penalty not being immediately awarded. This is entirely on the twats making the decision with VAR.

That said, Hooper was harsh for dishing out a yellow to O'Neil for complaining (although, once again, I know all referees will be under pressure to enforce new directives).

 

[Sid Tottenham]

I haven't read the thread so this might of been suggested already but VAR is supposed to be for clear and obvious mistakes so there should be a time limit i dunno 1 minute if they can't come to a decision then it should take a leaf out of crickets Hawkeye and be umpire (refs) decision.

 

[aliyid]

I think the biggest issue most people have is the stop in play in order for them to review the incident. What I don't understand is why they feel the need to stop play in order for somebody (not even in the ground) to review the footage... Just let play carry on and if they need to call it back then they do it.

 

[dannyo]

It’s the same old shit it’s always been, except with more breaks in play and the removal of any joy of celebrating a goal. The negatives massively outweigh the positives, in my opinion. If a team of people are going to watch a thousand slow motion replays and still make the wrong decision, what is the point? It absolutely kills the game when you’re in the ground

 

[cwy21]

It wasn't even the worst decision of the week imo. The first Newcastle goal standing was actually worse imo. But they won by four goals so no one cares (in media or PGMOL).

 

[spurmin]

It wasn't even the worst decision of the week imo. The first Newcastle goal standing was actually worse imo. But they won by four goals so no one cares (in media or PGMOL).

Is that because Isak was blocking Mings?

 

[cwy21]

Is that because Isak was blocking Mings?

It was Dan Burns and Matty Cash but yes that goal. That clip could have gone in every offside presentation and clip set presented to refs for the last decade.

In fact it's a perfect example of how vars are told to keep this high line. But when that high line gets challenged at Old Trafford in stoppage time then you get this shit show. I'd wager more vars than not would have made the same decision to say not clear enough because that's what's been drilled into their head by pgmol for four years.

I know if I was a var in the EPL and the big stoppage time decision comes I'm probably sending it down just for self preservation. Make the ref say no.

 

[BorjeSpurs]

What the actual f…..

 

[wrd]

Well they've revealed what we already knew, where's that poster that used to defend the refs all the time because he did a badge?

With what Mike Dean has just said, there should be an overhaul of the system and the ref situation in this league. It's been needed for years but now there's grounds for investigating it because he's just revealed they compromise the integrity of the game to protect eachother.

 

[aliyid]

What the actual f…..

Absolute shambles, not only deliberately overlooking an incident but brazenly admitting it. That’ll do nothing for the respect campaign as now people will be even more convinced it’s just an old boys club where they don’t want to go against each other’s decisions

 

[aliyid]

Does anybody have a telegraph login who could paste the article into a spoiler? (just in case the full article gives the outrageous headline some extra context)

**** edit - article added thanks to @robotsonic below ****

Spoiler: Article

Former Premier League referee Mike Dean failed to intervene on a major VAR call because he didn’t want to cause his friend Anthony Taylor any ‘grief’, he has revealed.
In a remarkably candid admission, Dean said he made the “pathetic” call at the climax of the 2-2 draw between Tottenham and Chelsea last August.
Cristian Romero pulled Marc Cucurella’s hair seconds before Harry Kane’s 96th minute equaliser, and Dean acknowledged that in the heat of the moment he made a bad choice not to suggest on-field official Taylor consider a sending off offence.
“I missed the stupid hair pull at Chelsea versus Tottenham which was pathetic from my point of view,” Dean told Up Front with Simon Jordan.

“It’s one of them where if I had my time again, what would I do? I’d send Anthony [Taylor] to the screen. I think I knew if I did send him to the screen … he’s cautioned both managers, he’s had a hell of a game, it’s been such a tough game end to end.
“I said to Anthony afterwards: ‘I just didn’t want to send you to the screen after what has gone on in the game’. I didn’t want to send him up because he is a mate as well as a referee and I think I didn’t want to send him up because I didn’t want any more grief than he already had.
“Anthony, he is big and bald and ugly enough to know if he is going to the screen he is going to the screen for a reason. If someone pulls their hair now it’s dead easy. It’s just a brainwave by me, a really bad call by me, and it kind of affected me as VAR going forward.”
Dean’s remarks underline the human frailties which have often undermined the new technology. He was subsequently stood down from the next Premier League games and later decided he did not wish to continue as a video assistant referee.
“Probably I missed a few games because you get taken out of the limelight,” he added.

“That was a major error. If they don’t score from the corner it is not as big an issue. But I knew full well then I would be stood down the week after. I asked to take a bit of time off because it wasn’t for me.
“I used to get in the car on a Friday and was dreading Saturday. I was thinking, ‘I hope nothing happens’. I used to be petrified sitting in the chair.”

 

[robotsonic]

https://archive.ph/abSnk

For anyone who can't otherwise read it

 

[robotsonic]

Truly a mad, mad bastard for coming out and saying as much, true or not. Got to move towards a separate group of individuals looking at VAR than those that also ref the games.