The webster clause and its implications on football (from transfer rumours)

[Petyr]

No - we'd never prejudice ourselves like that.



Such a contract has been on the table for several months now. As far as I know there's not been any recent progress though.



It was over the principle of a release clause at all, not the amount. We wont agree to one as it would be a major and unwelcome innovation to British football.

Dan, you may be right but I still think that it may be better for Spurs to include such a clause in Berbatov's new contract if Levy and Ramos want to rely on a happy player ready to give his best. Why? If he doesn't sign a new contract or extension, then untill the end of transfer window and January again his future will be a subject of intense speculations which wouldn't be good for both the player and the club. More importantly, the Webster rule may be more significant than it is usually considered. That guy Jonas Gutierrez from Mallorca has taken advantage of it and signed with Newcastle. (BBC: Real Mallorca are to pursue compensation after Jonas Gutierrez bought out his contract and moved to Newcastle.) I think the likes of Real, Inter (who wanted to sign Hleb on the Webster), Milan etc. wouldn't be afraid to sign Berbatov on the Webster. Wenger himself thinks that this rule can work and leaves the clubs in a weak position after the second year of a player's contract. For Observer Wenger said recently:

'Contract-wise, the club is always in a weaker position,' said Wenger of the Ronaldo situation at a Castrol-backed Euro 2008 event. 'Why? Because clubs only have the security of a player now for three years. And that's why, when a player is in his second year, it's difficult. You are in a weak situation as a club.
'OK, you can think, "I can leave this guy here if he sulks and play him in the reserves." But it doesn't work. It's a good solution in theory, but on a daily basis it's impossible. That's why, in the end, I said I will only sell Anelka if he says to me, "I want to leave". What can you do with a player who doesn't want to stay?'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/29/arsenal

 

[yanno]

More importantly, the Webster rule may be more significant than it is usually considered. That guy Jonas Gutierrez from Mallorca has taken advantage of it and signed with Newcastle. (BBC: Real Mallorca are to pursue compensation after Jonas Gutierrez bought out his contract and moved to Newcastle.) I think the likes of Real, Inter (who wanted to sign Hleb on the Webster), Milan etc. wouldn't be afraid to sign Berbatov on the Webster. Wenger himself thinks that this rule can work and leaves the clubs in a weak position after the second year of a player's contract.

Petyr is correct. This is perhaps the single most important development of the entire transfer window so far. Jonas, a player worth around £8 million, has used the Webster Clause to buy out the remaining years of his contract, thus potentially making transfer fees redundant.

Journalist Graham Hunter suggested a few months back that there was a "gentleman's agreement" that the G14 and other big clubs would not use the Webster Clause because they did not want to allow another Bosman situation. In fact, Webster is worse than Bosman because it potentially means that players are no longer multi-million pound assets on balance sheets, and the financial situation of all clubs would therefore be severely weakened.

Whilst we can all joke about Newcastle not being a big club, they do appear to have broken rank and invoked Webster to avoid paying a transfer fee. In other words, the geordies may have just fucked every major club in the world.

Hunter's original comments are below:

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while he thinks it is "unlikely" that the Webster clause will be used, Hunter says these reports demonstrate the size of the rift that has grown between Ronaldinho and his club.

He said: "This clause is one that lets players have greater freedom of movement in their careers - even when they're under contract, given certain age and length of contract criteria.

"There is a concord between all big clubs not to use this in a bid to avoid 'another Bosman'. They want to stick together against the players and avoid opening Pandora's Box.

"Roberto Assis hinted on Brazilian television that they may try to break that concord and he specifically refused to rule out the idea that Ronaldinho might buy out his contract and move to Real Madrid.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11828_3375747,00.html

 

[mil1lion]

I always thought the webster clause would be used to make sure a club doesn't hold a player against their will. I never thought it would be used at the high level. Its more a case of "sell us the player or we'll use the webster clause." In that respect its not such a bad idea, as it gives players more freedom to make the moves they want. I'm personally all for the though of, if a player wants to leave then they should be sold, as long as the price is right. Did Newcastle give Mallorca a chance in this transfer? If no, then they have opened pandoras box to some extent. Does that mean they will sign Behrami on the same principle?

How long has Bentley been at Blackburn?

 

[SpurSince57]

On the other hand, if Mallorca are awarded hefty compensation from Newcastle it will make clubs think twice before signing 'Webster' players.

 

[nickspurs]

Petyr is correct. This is perhaps the single most important development of the entire transfer window so far. Jonas, a player worth around £8 million, has used the Webster Clause to buy out the remaining years of his contract, thus potentially making transfer fees redundant.

Journalist Graham Hunter suggested a few months back that there was a "gentleman's agreement" that the G14 and other big clubs would not use the Webster Clause because they did not want to allow another Bosman situation. In fact, Webster is worse than Bosman because it potentially means that players are no longer multi-million pound assets on balance sheets, and the financial situation of all clubs would therefore be severely weakened.

Whilst we can all joke about Newcastle not being a big club, they do appear to have broken rank and invoked Webster to avoid paying a transfer fee. In other words, the geordies may have just fucked every major club in the world.

Hunter's original comments are below:

--------------------------

while he thinks it is "unlikely" that the Webster clause will be used, Hunter says these reports demonstrate the size of the rift that has grown between Ronaldinho and his club.

He said: "This clause is one that lets players have greater freedom of movement in their careers - even when they're under contract, given certain age and length of contract criteria.

"There is a concord between all big clubs not to use this in a bid to avoid 'another Bosman'. They want to stick together against the players and avoid opening Pandora's Box.

"Roberto Assis hinted on Brazilian television that they may try to break that concord and he specifically refused to rule out the idea that Ronaldinho might buy out his contract and move to Real Madrid.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11828_3375747,00.html

This is troubling if true for all transfers. The barcodes owner may be behaving in a cavalier attitude given than there are rumours of sale discussions of the club to some US private equity fund (see BBC site).

 

[michaelden]

On the other hand, if Mallorca are awarded hefty compensation from Newcastle it will make clubs think twice before signing 'Webster' players.

If Gutierrez did a "Webster" then how can Mallorca even try to claim compensation?

 

[yanno]

On the other hand, if Mallorca are awarded hefty compensation from Newcastle it will make clubs think twice before signing 'Webster' players.

Yes - except that I can't imagine Webster "compensation" would be higher than existing transfer fees. There's an added twist in that Velez Sarsfield also claim to "own" part of Jonas.

If Mallorca & Velez take Newcastle through the EU legal system, then the value of any compensation due to a club whose player has used Webster to "buy out" their contract will be determined by law.

However, it is possible that the EU courts will decide that that compensation should be substantially lower than current transfer fees. And until the EU decides, all of football would effectively be in a kind of "Webster limbo", and it would be impossible to place an accurate financial value on clubs.

 

[Scutch]

I thought the Webster's had just moved into Ashley and Claire's house? We are referring to Kevin? He's certainly getting around.

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

I thought the Webster's had just moved into Ashley and Claire's house? We are referring to Kevin? He's certainly getting around.

You're just trying to increase your Street Cred.

 

[phil]

If Gutierrez did a "Webster" then how can Mallorca even try to claim compensation?

Exactly. There is no contract between Mallorca and Newcastle and, therefore, no basis for any legal claim for compensation. As I've posted before, Webster is a real threat to the present transfer system. Under Webster, Berbatov will be able to buy himself out for £7-9 million at the end of next season. The posters on here who have consistently stated that none of the major clubs will sign a Webster player may need to reconsider their views.

 

[yanno]

The posters on here who have consistently stated that none of the major clubs will sign a Webster player may need to reconsider their views.

As far as I can tell, all of us who have looked into Webster have stated that it is a major threat to the transfer system.

Speaking for myself, my reservations about its impact were based on claims by journalists such as Graham Hunter that the major clubs had agreed not to use it and thus open Pandora's Box. If the barcodes have indeed used Webster to sign Jonas, then the financial dynamics of football have just abruptly changed, and power has swung away from clubs and towards players (and their agents).

If Webster stands, the outstanding value of player contracts has now effectively replaced transfer fees as the means of determining how much a club has to pay to sign a player at another club.

 

[idlepete]

I honestly thought the first club to break ranks and use this rule would be Chelsea, as they pay the highest wages and therefore probably have the least to lose.

I hadn't counted on the sheer unadulterated fuckwittedness of the Barcodes.

 

[idlepete]

If Webster stands, the outstanding value of player contracts has now effectively replaced transfer fees as the means of determining how much a club has to pay to sign a player at another club.

Someone on here (can't remember who but they seemed to know what they were talking about) said that the value would be determined by a tribunal whose remit would be not to distort EU market values and that the remaining value of the contract wouldn't come into it. That made sense to me. Which is probably why it won't work like that, but still...

 

[yanno]

Someone on here (can't remember who but they seemed to know what they were talking about) said that the value would be determined by a tribunal whose remit would be not to distort EU market values and that the remaining value of the contract wouldn't come into it. That made sense to me. Which is probably why it won't work like that, but still...

Yup - I remember similar comments. I suspect this will quickly descend into a barroom lawyers shouting and cussing thread...

When we should really be saving our choicest insults for Fat Mike Ashley, Dennis the Menace, and King Kev. :wink:

PS because surely there's no SC member who would dream of blaming Chris Hughton for this complete cockup... mg:

 

[Dibby]

Why would Ronaldinho need to buy out his own contract?

His manager has said he is surplus to requirements.

 

[idlepete]

Yup - I remember similar comments. I suspect this will quickly descend into a barroom lawyers shouting and cussing thread...

Which I'll read with interest, but ultimately, I guess no one will know until it goes to court...

When we should really be saving our choicest insults for Fat Mike Ashley, Dennis the Menace, and King Kev. :wink:

PS because surely there's no SC member who would dream of blaming Chris Hughton for this complete cockup... mg:

Chrissy Hughton you say?!?! Goddamn. I knew it. He's probably been planning the whole thing out on his clipboard for years, and when he was supposed to be training the team how to defend as well I should imagine. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Why would Ronaldinho need to buy out his own contract?

His manager has said he is surplus to requirements.

Barca won't sell to Real Madrid.

 

[yanno]

Why would Ronaldinho need to buy out his own contract?

His manager has said he is surplus to requirements.

Because Barca want north of £20 million for him, which is presumably a bigger sum than the value of the remaining years of his contract.

Here's a hypothetical scenario using Jonas (but with made-up amounts). Jonas buys out the last two years of his contract which amounts to c£2million of wages. So, Mallorca get £2 million from Jonas. Jonas then signs a new contract with the barcodes, who reimburse him for the £2 million he shelled out to buy out his contract and pay him a much higher wage than he was getting at Mallorca. However, Newcastle don't have to pay a transfer fee (subject to any EU court cases or FIFA tribunals), so they've saved themselves £6 million (£8 - £2 million).

-------------------

NB the £8 million was Mallorca's asking price:

"This matter is not closed because the club has decided to go to FIFA to reclaim our right. The minimum we want to recuperate is the £8million Portsmouth offered us in the winter.''

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11678_3773913,00.html

--------------------------

So, in Ronnie's case, he could buy out the remaining years of his contract, paying that money to Barca in lieu of their receiving a transfer fee. Theoretically.

 

[Dibby]

Barca won't sell to Real Madrid.

Ah, I see.

 

[phil]

If the Webster ruling stands, I fear that it ends any chance of us retaining Berbatov. I know most of you disagree but I expect Berbatov to be sold this window for a fee around £20 million. The Gutierrez deal has affectively reduced Berbatov's value by at least £10 million. Levy will want to cash in now to prevent him going on a Webster at the end of the season.