The Zokora vs Hudd debate or somone else?

[lukespurs7]

Now the season has come to a close and we can relfect again on the performances of our main two Defensive midfielders, who is better or more importantly, more suited to our style of play?

Intresting stat I read today prompted this thread as Minutes played along with goals and assists is intresting.

Zokora played 2252 mins,0 goals,0 assists
Huddlestone played 1945 mins 3 goals, 7 assists.

Tells a story doesn't it.......or does it?

This doesn't take into account many other factors such as pass success rate although Hudd's is probably just as good as Zoko's. However distance covered,headers made, tackles and interceptions etc aren't stated here.

I'm still even now undecided on Zokora. I think he's a decent DM and mabye with a real creative CAM i.e Modric will really flourish playing his simple role shielding the back 4. I love his energy and commitment and he is a great athlete. Seems to be improving slightly and for all the doubts we may have with him he'd still be one of our first names on a team sheet. He does a simple job and does it quite well.

Hudd is a fantastic talent and those stats would suggest he is far better than Zokora but in a DM role, Zokora does a better job. However Hudd is improving and if he can get more mobile and keep improving i'd say he may well be a fantastic player in the future.

So for next season i'm not sure. A player of Makoun or Kieta or Gattuso's quality would be very nice, however i'm starting to think if we sign a quality winger, GK and mabye CB then Zokora will be fine and good enough for top4.

views?

 

[parklane_B39-R16-S25]

Cant remember Zokora putting a foot wrong in the last 5 home games. He's been immense when he plays basic and doesnt try to be flash. I hated him before but i think he's earned his place.

 

[chinaman]

Zoko has also been getting into scoring positions lately, but still haven't opened his account. All he needs is that elusive first goal to give him confidence and he'll be good for 3 to 4 goals a season.

 

[JKD76]

Both players arent up to the task if we really do have any ambition.Agree that Zokora is a terrific athlete but lacking in many other departments.We need to up the quality level that is the bottom line.

 

[rarrrr]

Zoko has also been getting into scoring positions lately, but still haven't opened his account. All he needs is that elusive first goal to give him confidence and he'll be good for 3 to 4 goals a season.

He has only 3 career goals for club and country combined.

 

[PT]

Steffen Freund never scored in that position either.

 

[nicdic]

Zokora, best player for us post Carling Cup Final.

 

[striebs]

Zokora's function is to spoil the opposition so they cannot play the game on their terms . Thats it , pure and simple .

I don't want him trying to score .

It might not be The Tottenham Way but until our squad is comparable to Man Utd , we have to concentrate on learning how to beat better teams in one off matches ie Cup matches .

Until that time it's counter productive replacing Zoko with someone with more footballing ability but who is not as good a spoiler . If we can find a better spoiler then replace him .

Huddlestone is a great supersub if the team find themselves chasing a match .

 

[pezinhoTHFC]

The problem we have is that we are playing one of two players in the def. mid. role who AREN'T def.mids by trade. So this debate will always happen.

We need a proper def mid. Someone who states that as their position - not who "can play there when needed to". Someone like Diarra or Hargreaves - those types of players.

Just a thought

 

[pezinhoTHFC]

It might not be The Tottenham Way but until our squad is comparable to Man Utd , we have to concentrate on learning how to beat better teams in one off matches ie Cup matches.

Eh?! Surely we have to concentrate on learning how to beat better teams, full stop?!

 

[Kushal]

Zokora's got better as the season progressed. I don't think I can say that about anyone else this season.

Deserves his place in the team as he does what he's meant to do - break up opposition play!

As for Hudd, he's still very inconsistent and might be better used as an impact sub.

 

[DFF]

Now that Zokora's fulfilling his - albeit limited - role, i think he could work fine in a 442 (contrary to popular/SC belief), providing he's paired with someone who lives up to their billing.

 

[puppa_toni]

Both are a little too inconsistent at the moment, though same could be said for most of the squad!

 

[Bobishism]

Now the season has come to a close and we can relfect again on the performances of our main two Defensive midfielders, who is better or more importantly, more suited to our style of play?

Intresting stat I read today prompted this thread as Minutes played along with goals and assists is intresting.

Zokora played 2252 mins,0 goals,0 assists
Huddlestone played 1945 mins 3 goals, 7 assists.

Tells a story doesn't it.......or does it?

Yep. Zokora has more value to the team, thus he plays more.

 

[stickyfinger]

Zokora is a rubbish footballer, but with a role. Hudd is an excellent footballer, without a role. Brilliant.

Someone else so we don't have to have this debate ever again, please.

 

[idlepete]

Hey, I'm someone else.

 

[simyid]

IMO i think zoko just shades but i love hudd and hope he does well tonight for the u21's

 

[joey55]

Where is this idea that it is okay for a CM to just sit and play the ball simply coming from? Can someone please give me an example of when a CM in a 442 has done this before in a successful Prem team? This idea of receive and then play it simply has got to be the biggest myth in Prem football and the only reason there are still some people who think Zokora has done well. I could partially understand it, if our results since he’s been here had been good, but despite improving in all other areas of the team, we’ve got worse each season he’s been here. The only two types of DM that have been successful in the Prem are midfield destroyers who get amongst the opposition and break the play up, for example Parker in previous seasons and Reo Coker this season. To do this you have to be a tremendous ball winner. Reo Coker made 178 tackles, compared to Zokora’s 73, 84 clearances compared to Zokoras 42 and 57 interceptions compared to Zokoras 48. This is the difference between a true midfield destroyer and a half arsed one.

The other type of deeper sitting player is, the kind that shields the back 4, whilst setting the tempo for the team. The kind of player who continually makes himself available for the ball, has a range of passing and great positional sense. The Likes of Carrick and Alonso are good examples, they are the pivot from which the team plays off. Zokora passes the ball less that JJ, Steed and Hudd, despite playing in the best position to receive the ball. The reason for this is that he simply doesn’t make himself available for the ball unless there is a lot of space. There are also those players who combine both roles in that they constantly want to move the ball, but are also great ball winner. Think Mascherano or Flamini.

Zokora doesn’t fit into any of these groups. Yet people seem to praise him for not making mistakes. It’s as if they are not acknowledging the work he should be doing, but isn’t. Please tell me what team has ever been successful in the Prem playing with a player who does so very little in such a key role? I read things like he hasn’t put a foot wrong, but that is ignoring the fact he hasn’t put a foot right. How can his recent performances be praised? We’ve been shit and he hasn’t helped at all. People blame lack of motivation, but that isn’t true. Lack of quality is the problem and he is a major part of that problem. Look at the CC Final. Some people claim he did well, but in reality, we were very predictable until the Hudd came on. When he had his chance to impact the game, when through 1 on 1 with the keeper he fluffed his lines. Prior to that he had the chance of playing a simple pass that would have won the game, but again he failed. Against Reading look how poor we were once the Hudd went of and we had no one to make the play.

All this nonsense about playing it simple seems to have come from since Makekele has been in the Prem. But he plays in a 3CM and it’s very different. See how poor Makelele was in a 442 last season or at Euro 2004. If you want to see a good example of Zokora playing well and affecting the game, watch the second half against Bolton. He was moved to right back and caused them all sorts of problems. I’ll post some youtube clips at some point, but it’ll take a while. But his crossing only needs some minor work. The guy is born to run up and down the flank. He showed how well he can defend at various points of the season. He was fantastic at CB against Pompey, but ultimately lacks the presence to play there. But at RB, he’d be awesome. I like Hutton, but he simply can’t compare to what Zokora could very easily produce in that position. I can understand why people think Zokora has done okay at CM, but firmly believe it is an opinion built on a false basis. By playing it simple, receiving it on his own terms, Zokora avoids responsibility and people praise him for it. I think any decent reviews he gets are based on a set of flawed principles of what a CM should be doing and failing to see the detriment he is having by not fulfilling key areas of a CM’s remit.

I think that Makelele’s introduction into the English game had quite frankly confused many people as, how to appraise CM play. Zokora is being judged and sometimes praised an a false criteria. The Hudd has potential, but is young and players of his ilk usually develop late. The signing of KPB suggests Jol wasn’t happy with CM and the fact we then tried to sign Tiago suggests Ramos felt the same. The simple fact is a player has to offer far more than Zokora does. And surely more than anything else results highlight this. Since Carrick left we’ve got far stronger in all areas, but the most important area of the pitch is CM and there we have got far weaker. People say stats can be made to fit any argument but it’s hard to argue against these:

Passes - Carrick (2005/6) 2078 Zokora (this season) 1200
Tackles – Carrick 120 Zokora 73
Attempts created - Carrick 73 Zokora 16
Goals – Carrick 2 Zokora 0
Assists – Carrick 6 Zokora 0

Surely these stats alone show what we are missing from not having quality in a DM role and og a long to explaining why we’ve dropped back over the last 2 seasons. The Hudd could be the answer, but not yet, whilst Zokora never will be, unless we change formation and he is given a far more limited role (ie 433 or 4231). I'm sure we'll bring in a replacement in the summer.

 

[hotspur00]

Nail and Head spring to mind Joey.

Good post and fully agree.

I think if we are settling for Zokora as the engine and pivotal part of our team something has gone wrong.

 

[gibbs131]

Zokora, best player for us post Carling Cup Final.

True:clap: