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Thoughts on Spanish clubs and their debt?

BK007

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,136
843
I guess this is "old" news but I was wondering what others thought of how some of the Spanish clubs are run- notably Atletico Madrid.

They owe more money than Rangers did to the HMRC and yet they still operate and still have the audacity to continue splashing out the cash for big name transfers.

In a certain sense, I would deem this unfair because clearly they have an advantage over a lot of the European field when they are not spending within their means but are not being punished. I'm just saying, despite the results they get on the pitch in the Europa League, they don't actually deserve them when their success is pretty much bought with the Spanish government's/banks refusal to take them to task.

Now it's a drop in the ocean of debt Spain has, but their financial situation is dire, so their continuous backing of this ludicrous, unsustainable spending (famously all the cash generated from the sale of Aguero when to their tax collectors) has to have its repercussions. I may be stretching here, but it's basically the Germans and other European countries who are actually paying for these club debts. Ironic isn't it?

With the Spanish already restless, it's understandable why the government might be afraid to force them to shut up shop, especially as football is ingrained into their culture, however, I think it's just delaying the inevitable. The comeuppance will come and it might as well happen now. Maybe I'm speaking on behalf of wanting Spurs to win the Europa League and being sick of Spanish domination, but just like how Chelsea and Man City, in my eyes, don't deserve their bought trophies, neither do the Spanish clubs deserve their success indebted to lax enforcement.

The league is built on a rotten bridge and the way things are going, it is a matter of when and not if, it all comes crumbling down. (though Barcelona and Real are to blame as well.)
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176
I remember reading a story a few years ago about Real Madrid being in massive debt and uefa getting involved telling them to solve the debt. So they sold off there training ground to the Spanish government at a massively inflated pricewho cleared the debt for them. Whether this still happens with Spain being in such a financial mess I'm not sure. Also I'm not sure if the government would do the same for the smaller Spanish clubs who aren't key tourist attractions like Barca and RealMadrid are.
 

KILLA_SIN

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2008
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14,699
Its just as bad if not far far worse over here. Maybe they will argue they have to do this to counter the billionaires in Eng. Anyway it just sounds like you have the hump about Spanish dominance.
Personally I do prefer them winning its a victory for football over some of the boring shit we serve up as a spectacle case in point Atleticos schooling of Chelsea in the Super Cup.
But kudos to the Germans great football great businesses.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,036
29,623
Its just as bad if not far far worse over here. Maybe they will argue they have to do this to counter the billionaires in Eng. Anyway it just sounds like you have the hump about Spanish dominance.
Personally I do prefer them winning its a victory for football over some of the boring shit we serve up as a spectacle case in point Atleticos schooling of Chelsea in the Super Cup.
But kudos to the Germans great football great businesses.
I wouldnt say it is far worse here, the government allowed the clubs to not pay tax and so the clubs built up debt thinking there was no rush to pay it but then when shit hit the fan the government have SLOWLY changed their mind and after pressue from other countries, they decided said: yea you owe us that money so pay up. It was only a year and half ago iirc that they were suggesting writing the debt of up to a billion euros off and letting the clubs get away with it.

Makes you wonder how spain ever got in to this mess:rolleyes:
 

Real_madyidd

The best username, unless you are a fucking idiot.
Oct 25, 2004
18,800
12,467
I remember reading a story a few years ago about Real Madrid being in massive debt and uefa getting involved telling them to solve the debt. So they sold off there training ground to the Spanish government at a massively inflated pricewho cleared the debt for them. Whether this still happens with Spain being in such a financial mess I'm not sure. Also I'm not sure if the government would do the same for the smaller Spanish clubs who aren't key tourist attractions like Barca and RealMadrid are.

I have friends in Madrid that explained this to me ( they are very biased) apparently the training ground (and basket ball courts /sports centre) were all centrally located. The club put it up for sale and moved further out of town. Apparently (and this is the bit I cannot beleive but cannot disprove) the govt just so happend to be the winning bidders for the land (in a sort of dutch auction).
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Where their training ground used to be is now an office and hotel complex.
four beautiful glass towers like mini shards and very much a tourist attraction.
It was prime development land and must have been worth a fortune,
a couple of miles North of the Bernabeu up the Castellana
It was alongside la Paz hospital where my grandchildren were born.
They moved ten miles or so out near the airport.
I used to go past it regularly and always tried to get a look over the fence.
They split most of the TV money with Barcelona and nobody else gets much of a look in.
They don't negotiate as a league but individually.
 

RichSpur58

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2011
2,169
1,931
I guess this is "old" news but I was wondering what others thought of how some of the Spanish clubs are run- notably Atletico Madrid.

They owe more money than Rangers did to the HMRC and yet they still operate and still have the audacity to continue splashing out the cash for big name transfers.

In a certain sense, I would deem this unfair because clearly they have an advantage over a lot of the European field when they are not spending within their means but are not being punished. I'm just saying, despite the results they get on the pitch in the Europa League, they don't actually deserve them when their success is pretty much bought with the Spanish government's/banks refusal to take them to task.

Now it's a drop in the ocean of debt Spain has, but their financial situation is dire, so their continuous backing of this ludicrous, unsustainable spending (famously all the cash generated from the sale of Aguero when to their tax collectors) has to have its repercussions. I may be stretching here, but it's basically the Germans and other European countries who are actually paying for these club debts. Ironic isn't it?

With the Spanish already restless, it's understandable why the government might be afraid to force them to shut up shop, especially as football is ingrained into their culture, however, I think it's just delaying the inevitable. The comeuppance will come and it might as well happen now. Maybe I'm speaking on behalf of wanting Spurs to win the Europa League and being sick of Spanish domination, but just like how Chelsea and Man City, in my eyes, don't deserve their bought trophies, neither do the Spanish clubs deserve their success indebted to lax enforcement.

The league is built on a rotten bridge and the way things are going, it is a matter of when and not if, it all comes crumbling down. (though Barcelona and Real are to blame as well.)

I don't like any of em. Barca and Madrid are a billion euros in debt between them. The league is a dull 2 horse race.
 

yawa

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
12,592
9,417
I don't like any of em. Barca and Madrid are a billion euros in debt between them. The league is a dull 2 horse race.

Even though Athletico are second in the league and completely dicked Chelsea? It's far stronger than people give it credit for.
 

KILLA_SIN

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2008
7,960
14,699
I don't like any of em. Barca and Madrid are a billion euros in debt between them. The league is a dull 2 horse race.

All the leagues in Europe over the least twenty years have been dominated by 2-3 teams and broken up by 2-3 others.
People need to get over England being the most competitive/exciting league in the world just because Sky said it 5 billion times a week does not make it true they have a vested interest in perpetuating the Premier League as the best in the world. FFS some of the dross we have had to watch Stoke? Wimbledon? Bolton

since 92/93
Arsenal 3, United 12, Chelsea 3, City 1 , Blackburn 1
Atletico 1 , Real 7 , Deportivo 1 , Barca 9 and Valencia 2
Juve 6, Roma 1, Inter 5, AC 6 , Lazio 1
Bayern 10, Dortmund 5, Wolfsberg 1, Stuttgart 1, Weder Bremen 2, Kaiserslautern 1
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I don't like any of em. Barca and Madrid are a billion euros in debt between them. The league is a dull 2 horse race.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers, those amounts include liabilities such as season tickets and corporate boxes (the tickets are sold at the beginning of the season, so until the end of the season they are counted as liabilities) they also don't consider cash each club has in the bank.
If you take out these considerations each club is in less debt than Arsenal and are making tidy profits, but that doesn't sell papers.
 

BK007

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,136
843
Its just as bad if not far far worse over here. Maybe they will argue they have to do this to counter the billionaires in Eng. Anyway it just sounds like you have the hump about Spanish dominance.
Personally I do prefer them winning its a victory for football over some of the boring shit we serve up as a spectacle case in point Atleticos schooling of Chelsea in the Super Cup.
But kudos to the Germans great football great businesses.

Maybe I do, because to be honest Spain play some of the most boring football.

I much prefer Holland and Germany.

But that's internationally, club wise, all I'm saying is, they wouldn't be able to have players like Falcao in the first place.
 

RichSpur58

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2011
2,169
1,931
Don't believe everything you read in the papers, those amounts include liabilities such as season tickets and corporate boxes (the tickets are sold at the beginning of the season, so until the end of the season they are counted as liabilities) they also don't consider cash each club has in the bank.
If you take out these considerations each club is in less debt than Arsenal and are making tidy profits, but that doesn't sell papers.

Thanks for the finance lesson, since its my day job I'm already quite well informed thanks;) The debt for both teams stands at around 500m euros (top of my head). 60,000 season tickets at 500 each is 30m. Even though that is an approximate figure you can see its a very small part of overall debt.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
The swiss ramble did an article recently about the two, they are no where near in trouble as some papers make out. Granted barca owe about 80m to the tax man, but both clubs debts are easily met.
 

KILLA_SIN

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2008
7,960
14,699
Maybe I do, because to be honest Spain play some of the most boring football.

I much prefer Holland and Germany.

But that's internationally, club wise, all I'm saying is, they wouldn't be able to have players like Falcao in the first place.

Fair play I iust prefer the way the Spanish play each to their own. But look at City and Chelsea would they have had the players they have if not for their owners? In both countries it is the same
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
If the catalans gain independence will spain allow barca to play in la liga?
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Even though Athletico are second in the league and completely dicked Chelsea? It's far stronger than people give it credit for.
It is this year but not usually.
Athletico have Falcao and Malaga have millions to spend.
Three teams vying for second place to Barcelona.
There will be hell to pay if Athletico finish above Real
and it looks as if they might.
 
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