Time for 4-3-3

[idontgetit]

Given our squad why are we not playing this formation. We don't really have the right midfielders to play 4-4-2 and given how many midfielders we actually have it's not going to be long before some of them get fed up. We also only have two top strikers (one of which can't score for toffee at the moment) and if one get's injured that means either ditching the formation or playing Defoe or an untested Kane.

This isn't a kneejerk thread, I've been saying this for over a year now. We've had good results lately playing 4-4-2 which allows us to put away teams below us yet it will get shown up by really good sides with top midfielders. I know we actually had some really good chances today and could have even beaten Arsenal if say Erikson and Adebayor had slotted away their decent chances, but is that the way we want to play? Stealing results? How about going out there and outclassing the opposition all over the pitch with a system that allows us to punch above our weight?

4-4-3 is very similar to what the squad was playing under AVB so it won't be hard for them to adjust to. In fact when playing at our best under Tim we've actually been playing a form of 4-3-3 anyway as shown by this player map from Stoke

Why not just go the whole hog and play it from the start with players ideally suited to the formation. Throw in a DM like Sandro or Capoue who's only job is to shield the back four (not box to box like Capoue's been under TS) and suddenly we have a real core solidity that's been missing lately. This way the whole team is freed up to attack.

Keep the whole high tempo pressing game but don't make the same mistake that AVB made in thinking that you need 10 either really fast or really strong players to do it. Arsenal and Barca don't. Keep Sherwood's philosophy of getting plenty of creative attacking players out there on the pitch together. If say Holtby and Erikson for example can play as a pair without being a disaster then they can definitely play with a big scary bastard of a DM sweeping up behind them.

Don't make another of AVB's mistakes which is using the wide forwards like wingers or inverted wingers. Have the midfield 3 worry about bossing the midfield and let the wide forwards push up to press the opposition high when we don't have the ball and to support the striker when we do have it. This was a massive problem under AVB, the wide forwards played way too deep. They came short to pick up the ball and then ran at a set defence or shot from distance rather than looking to get played in behind the defence or draw defenders away from the striker. Many posters make this mistake in critising using only one striker as the striker was always isolated under AVB. Really it was just AVB not using his system properly. If done right we essentially have three strikers when attacking!

Our squad is just perfect for the set-up. Two good wingbacks, two great defensive midfielders, plenty of central attacking midfielders, wide players with goals in them if used properly (Chadli, Lamela, Townsend and Erikson if he's not used in the CM3). Siggy would be a completely different player in a CM3. Sandro and Capoue would have the creative burden completely taken off of them in a CM3. Dembele's lack of distribution would be balanced out playing in a CM3. The lightweight nature of Erikson and Holtby would be balanced out. Paulinho would be freed up to support the striker and attack the box from deep. Everyone benefits

It solves everything that was wrong under AVB and TS and keeps what they did right. Creative passing from deep. Solid defensive midfield cover. Goal threatening wide forwards. Midfield domination.

So SC why not 4-3-3

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Agreed, to an extent. Written like this it seems simple. Its obvious we have gone from one extreme to another with AVB to Sherwood. Finding a balance between the tactical set up and the expression of players is the key. Both are important yet under two managers now it has seemed to be one or the other.

 

[XSuicideBunnyX]

Oh you corrected the bit where you said '4-4-4', reminded me of a radio advert where the manager says "Right lads, today we're going to play a 4-4, 4-4. Granted, it'll give a little bit of an advantage, in the middle of the field."

 

[thinktank]

I dunno. We seem to do everything other than the right thing most of the time.

Hope tim grabs those big balls he's been swinging around and goes for what he knows.

I think he's scared of coming off like AVB though if he goes anything other than 442 and doesn't attack! attack! attack! for 90mins.

Needs to use common sense and not be on a crusade to dispel AVB's aura from the team.

 

[SoulDog]

Agree

 

[idontgetit]

Oh you corrected the bit where you said '4-4-4', reminded me of a radio advert where the manager says "Right lads, today we're going to play a 4-4, 4-4. Granted, it'll give a little bit of an advantage, in the middle of the field."

Sorry dude, just spanked the post out and posted then realised I should probably take a gander and see if it was complete drivel or not It was

 

[Donki]

I think when we have Sandro and Pauli back we will see sumthing more of this, them 2 with Eriksen more central. Time will tell.

 

[Wolf_Autopsy]

Lamela and Chadli are made for a 4-3-3. If we keep playing 4-4-2, we're never going to utilize them properly

 

[FinnYid]

Remains to be seen, don't think Tim lets the system and tactics dictate you, rather players available and their form dictates the system and the tactics. So for now given available players he reckons the best solution is try to utilize both Soldado and Ade. That might change after we have players out of the injury or some players pick up their form.

 

[easley91]

We need players back from injury first. Once we get a fully fit squad (or as close to as possible) then we'll see different formations and what not. Right now Tim is using what he has in the way he can with a limited number of personnel.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

It was abundantly clear to me watching the stoke game from the stands that we were playing in a 4-3-3 shape. Adebayor was collecting the ball from the left forward position and carrying it to the centre. Eriksen certainly doesnt play LM in a 4-4-2.

I think that just because were playing 2 strikers doesnt mean were playing a 4-4-2. Theres a graphic somewhere that showed the player's average positions in the stoke game, and it was essentially a 4-3-3...

EDIT: AHH its in the OP. Ha, knew i wasnt going mad

 

[DaSpurs]

Agreed, to an extent. Written like this it seems simple. Its obvious we have gone from one extreme to another with AVB to Sherwood. Finding a balance between the tactical set up and the expression of players is the key. Both are important yet under two managers now it has seemed to be one or the other.

Excellent. Is exactly what I've been hoping we'd go to, including a tad more tactical awareness from Tim. 4-4-2 worked against Man U's worst central midfield in three decades, but not against Arse's central midfield and with a barely 19 year old thrown in there.

 

[idontgetit]

I think when we have Sandro and Pauli back we will see sumthing more of this, them 2 with Eriksen more central. Time will tell.

I kept telling myself this with AVB. Ahh he's just waiting for us to sign a link man in January and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh he's just waiting for Holtby to bed in and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh now we've thrashed City with a 4-3-3 we'll play that for the rest of the season. Oh perhaps he doesn't want to disrupt the team dynamic and will wait till he has a few months in the summer to drill the squad in the new 4-3-3 system. Oh he's just waiting for Erikson and Holtby to get fit and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh the 4-2-3-1 is boring as shit surely soon. Oh we've just lost 3-0 to spam at home, surely now. 6-0 at city. 5-0 at home to Pool surel......fired. Surely Tim! 442 442ish 442ish 442 442ish 442. Surely next week!

I just think that having a system whereby the players can change and yet the team dynamic remains the sam e is important, especially given todays squad game and that if managers have an intention to play in a style they won't not do it because they are waiting for one player out of 26 to get fit

 

[Donki]

It was abundantly clear to me watching the stoke game from the stands that we were playing in a 4-3-3 shape. Adebayor was collecting the ball from the left forward position and carrying it to the centre. Eriksen certainly doesnt play LM in a 4-4-2.

I think that just because were playing 2 strikers doesnt mean were playing a 4-4-2. Theres a graphic somewhere that showed the player's average positions in the stoke game, and it was essentially a 4-3-3...

But... But.... The graphic on sky sports says 4 4 fucking 2 so it must be..... Right???

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

But... But.... The graphic on sky sports says 4 4 fucking 2 so it must be..... Right???

You've hit the nail on the head tbh mate.

I think alot of fans take what sky say as gospel and go with it.

Because they obviously know how we are setting out to play!

 

[idontgetit]

It was abundantly clear to me watching the stoke game from the stands that we were playing in a 4-3-3 shape. Adebayor was collecting the ball from the left forward position and carrying it to the centre. Eriksen certainly doesnt play LM in a 4-4-2.

I think that just because were playing 2 strikers doesnt mean were playing a 4-4-2. Theres a graphic somewhere that showed the player's average positions in the stoke game, and it was essentially a 4-3-3...

EDIT: AHH its in the OP. Ha, knew i wasnt going mad

Haha yes in my post. I'm not denying that we haven't played it at times but saying that when we've been at our best its been closer to 4-3-3 than anything else. So why not go the whole hog and play 4-3-3 with the players most suited for it rather than a wonky makeshift 4-3-3 with players that are semi-suited to it and not totally sure what their team mates are doing.

Edit: It doesn't have to be rigid either, just a basic shape that makes it easier for us to rotate players through without upsetting the balance. For example Erikson's been drifting inside to make a cm3 and Adebayor wide left to give us width but if Siggy and Defoe come in for them in our recent setup are we going to get the same team dynamic? Probably not

 

[Donki]

I kept telling myself this with AVB. Ahh he's just waiting for us to sign a link man in January and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh he's just waiting for Holtby to bed in and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh now we've thrashed City with a 4-3-3 we'll play that for the rest of the season. Oh perhaps he doesn't want to disrupt the team dynamic and will wait till he has a few months in the summer to drill the squad in the new 4-3-3 system. Oh he's just waiting for Erikson and Holtby to get fit and he'll switch to 4-3-3. Oh the 4-2-3-1 is boring as shit surely soon. Oh we've just lost 3-0 to spam at home, surely now. 6-0 at city. 5-0 at home to Pool surel......fired. Surely Tim! 442 442ish 442ish 442 442ish 442. Surely next week!

I just think that having a system whereby the players can change and yet the team dynamic remains the sam e is important, especially given todays squad game and that if managers have an intention to play in a style they won't not do it because they are waiting for one player out of 26 to do it

To be fair to Tim he has taken over at a really busy time, he's introduced a new player, as he said him self the busy time is over and now he has a good break between games...... Let's see what happens.

 

[Donki]

You've hit the nail on the head tbh mate.

I think alot of fans take what sky say as gospel and go with it.

Because they obviously know how we are setting out to play!

They get a team list, their pundits come up with the rest, I'm totally with you on how I see us lining up recently.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Haha yes in my post. I'm not denying that we haven't played it at times but saying that when we've been at our best its been closer to 4-3-3 than anything else. So why not go the whole hog and play 4-3-3 with the players most suited for it rather than a wonky makeshift 4-3-3 with players that are semi-suited to it and not totally sure what their team mates are doing.

I think that is where that particular graphic is useless mate. Had it included the stoke player's average positions it could possibly make more sense as to why that 4-3-3 looks wonky. I wouldnt expect to see a rigid 4-3-3 because it wouldnt be effective. The players will always mould themselves into the gaps of the opposition's formation, and thats why it probably looks wonky...but without the stoke players on that graphic, its pretty inconclusive!

Of course i could be completely wrong and were doing 4-3-3 completely incorrectly!

 

[XSuicideBunnyX]

Sorry dude, just spanked the post out and posted then realised I should probably take a gander and see if it was complete drivel or not It was

I reckon we've got the midfield to play a 4-4-4-4. And I think it would give us a little bit of an advantage in the middle of the field.