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Time for a change of formation!

Legend10

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2006
10,847
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I see no point in continuing with this 4231 formation, it isn't working and the simple reason is the players we have don't fit it. There's an old saying 'it doesn't matter how many times you flog a dead horse, it's not going to get you anywhere!' And that's what we are doing right now we've these players being shoehorned into this system. Nobody has stepped up to the plate in the 10 role which is pivotal to making this system work, we don't score goals, create opportunities of even look like doing either from the 10 position which is disastrous for the player in that position, the striker and the team in general, also nobody behind has the ability to get the ball to that player or the striker quick enough to at least partly overcome the problem.

Despite having a host of central midfield players none of them with the exception of Eriksen (who wasn't playing well anyway, probably due to the slowness of ball to him) offer any creativity, they are all essentially defensive minded players who don't spot early passes or if they do don't elect to play them. Only Dembele can beat a man in there but even when he does he either has limited options in front of him or he releases too slowly.

We have just spent £56 million on 2 attacking players and seen the emergence of Andros and this system stifles all 3 of them, Soldado might as well spend his weekends banging his head against a brick wall, it will gave the same effect as playing up front in this formation with these players.

However I don't think all is lost and I think we have the perfect set of players to play in one particular way and all the master tacticians on here are going to groan and disagree which is fine. But sometimes you have to look at what's at your disposal and go with what suits them best and put a load of round pegs in round holes and create a situation whereby you give your major investments a chance to excel rather than stifling them at every turn and as a consequence just draining every drop of confidence out of them. The group of players we have perfectly suit playing 442, they suit it down to a tee and I will explain why I think so but first here is a strange thing to say but I fully believe it;

Right now we are more in need of goals than we are points!

This lack of goals and real genuine chances (not 25 & 30 yard potshots) has the potential to drain everything out of this group of players! We saw Soldado on the tunnel cam yesterday just looking like a player in pieces by what is happening to him. Players hate playing and not scoring, not creating and not enjoying their work, and nobody can tell me that any of our players are currently enjoying themselves! You can lose a game of football 4-3 and be gutted but there's also some form of contentment and adrenalin rushes in being involved in such affairs. Now I'm by no means suggesting that we play with reckless abandonment, but players don't want to play in chains or be asked to do what they don't do naturally either. We need to start finding goals and chances and we need to do it now even if it slightly compromises our solidity.

Here's the thing, it's far easier to stop chances and goals than to create them and score them, therefore to do it you need to remove the handbrake at least a few notches and take some risks and get some bodies forward and in the oppositions box.

Right back to the much maligned 442 and why IMHO we should go there. I think Man City are the best side in the league and will win it this season, they're not afraid to play 442 and even some dodgy away results will sort themselves out especially when a lot of those results have been down to very questionable goalkeeping. But they are allowed to play with expression and freedom and actually both we and they have very similar players, theirs might be a notch above ours but in styles and abilities it's similar. Forgetting the back 4 for a moment lets look at City's forward 6 yesterday;

Navas............Toure..........Fernandinho...........Nasri

...................Aguero...........Negredo......................


Now let's look at what we could play, forgetting favourite players and it would be easy to swap one or two out and in, but as an example;

Townsend......Dembele.........Sandro...........Lamela

...................Soldado.........Adebayor...................


For sure City have got a bit of extra quality but everyone of players is a round peg in a round hole, even swap Townsend and Lamela round or whatever you want but you still have round pegs in round holes. Then you gave the base of 2 solid central midfield players, you could swap either of ours with Capoue and it makes no difference you still have a solid base that should just back up the play when attacking and protect the CB's when not but should rarely be further advanced than backing the play up. Leaves you with an attacking block of 4 supported by the FB's. Soldado has the weight of the world taken off of him and will be massively boosted by the physical presence next to him and our wide players and FB's when looking for forward passes and crosses will have options. We have perfect FB's for this system and there's barely a player in our squad that this system doesn't suit, Paulinho and Holtby maybe exceptions. It even suits Eriksen as we can play with a winger one side and Eriksen can play as Nasri or Silva does for City.

If we give up a but of possession to have more threat ourselves then so be it, it's not the end of the world, far from it. We have good players and to watch them toiling away fame after game in the offensive areas is painful. And I'm not saying we should play 442 for ever, but right now this group is better suited to it than any other formation and we need chances and goals to break this cycle of almost miserable football that we are currently in, just to play in a few exciting games would give everybody a lift.

Adebayor and Soldado, if that clicks and gets the right service that's a pretty formidable front pairing and it will score goals, plus the wide player from the opposite side we are attacking from will have licence to get in the box as well and all of a sudden we will go from 1 isolated figure in there and quite often nobody in there to 3.

I still have every confidence in this group of players, change the system, take the handbrake off a notch or 2, play with round pegs in round holes and we can still fight for the top 4 this season and enjoy some entertainment in the process.
 

finch101

Member
Jun 4, 2007
146
9
Very much in agreement with this.

I'd personally like to see Left footed wingers on the Left and Vice versa.

So for me I'd play Lennon on the right and Townsend on the left

Not discounting Defoe either, him playing with a big man means he should get his starts if Soldado doesn't start to improve in a 4-4-2.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,031
29,612
Formation isnt the issue, its the instructions the players are getting that is the problem
 

Dinghy

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2005
6,326
15,561
The problem with your idea is that it requires a manager with a footballing brain to compromise and actually manage the resources at his disposal rather than almost religiously sticking to a given doctrine just because it has worked for him in the past...
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,420
7,287
4-1-2-2-1

A regular back 4

Sandro/Capoue Holding

Eriksen/Holtby/Lamela/Sigv in those 2 CM positions
Lennon/Lamela/Townsend on wing

Any of our useless strikes up front.
 

TaoistMonkey

Welcome! Everything is fine.
Staff
Oct 25, 2005
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The problem with your idea is that it requires a manager with a footballing brain to compromise and actually manage the resources at his disposal rather than almost religiously sticking to a given doctrine just because it has worked for him in the past...

Love the way you casually chuck that in.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
Formation isnt the issue, its the instructions the players are getting that is the problem

Kind of get where you're coming from. For it to work you need a workhorse striker and an interchangeable front 3 behind him IMO. Similar to how Benitez had Chelsea playing last year. Their inverted wingers could either come inside, go to number 10 or go outside to cross.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
Formation isnt the issue, its the instructions the players are getting that is the problem

Agree, we can change to 4-4-2 but unless the players play with some tempo it won't make any difference. We started the second half yesterday with 4-4-2

Lennon - Sandro - Paulinho - Lamela

Adebayor - Soldado
We conceded 2 goals in 10 mins. Formation changes can't save us at this point imo the problem is with how we're playing.
 

KILLA_SIN

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2008
7,949
14,688
It doesn't matter what formation you play if first and foremost your objective is not to win but to make sure you don't lose. He needs to take the shackles off because this is by far the best squad we have ever had in my memory and most other managers clubs looking in would be envious of the players we have. AVB he needs to realise this does squarely lie with him and his restricted tactics.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
Avoid passing to the box at all costs

Passing sideways is the key

Passing sideways is fine, unless you do it slowly and the passer then doesn't move.

So I think he's asking them to do it slowly and telling them not to move.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,031
29,612
I think i've warmed to the Spanish waiter. Come back Rafa, all is forgiven!
There loads of different ways to play a 4231 and really its the instructions that make it different from a 433 tbh

As for Rafa, I gained respect for him, since he has been at chelsea. Maybe its the fact that we have been poor that is making me delusional in regards to rafa but he is doing better than the special one at the moment
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,031
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Passing sideways is fine, unless you do it slowly and the passer then doesn't move.

So I think he's asking them to do it slowly and telling them not to move.
sideways passing with no movement, no effort to get the ball in behind, in to the box=stalemate
 

Legend10

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2006
10,847
5,277
Avoid passing to the box at all costs

Passing sideways is the key


But that obviously isn't the instructions he's giving, he's shoehorning payers into certain roles that they don't fit, we have no number 10 for a start and that kills 4231 straight away.
 

Legend10

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2006
10,847
5,277
Agree, we can change to 4-4-2 but unless the players play with some tempo it won't make any difference. We started the second half yesterday with 4-4-2

Lennon - Sandro - Paulinho - Lamela

Adebayor - Soldado
We conceded 2 goals in 10 mins. Formation changes can't save us at this point imo the problem is with how we're playing.


The fact we were chasing at 3-0 and basically demoralised makes a difference and no formation or instructions can legislate for Dawson's defending on the 4 the goal.
 
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