Time to hit the gym!

[theShiznit]

I didn't realize this was a thread debating his relative shit-ness.

Some people will never turn down the opportunity to call someone shit...



You shit!


(you're new so I'll explain, that was a joke. I am not really calling you shit... even though you may well be )

 

[mil1lion]

I'd rather they focus more on their technical ability and end product

 

[Shea]

It's not as simple as that.

You lose a lot of agility if you bulk up too quickly or in way that your body/muscle isnt suited too. Eriksen and Lamela rely on that- I agree that they need to work on strength, but it's not just about 'hitting the gym'.

Tom Carroll spoke about this once, he bulked up a lot over a summer to add strength to his game and then had to do a lot of conditioning work at the Club to lose it again as his agility, movement and reactions suffered.

That's not true at all

They don't need to bulk for nonfunctional hypertrophy of their muscles

All the training would be strength and power based, any size gains would be merely a biproduct and more to do with their diet and calorific intake than the weights and explosive or plyometric training they did to make them stronger on the ball and more powerful explosive athletes

Look how many rugby players have significant bulk on them and still have the functional agility to be the best at their sport

Did Ronaldo or Bale lose agility but adding strength and muscle mass? no they went from strength to strength

Lamela and Soldado especially could clearly stand to gain some explosive functional strength to be more competitive in this league and it wouldn't adversely affect the other aspects of their game like agility and reaction times

All sports specific training and conditioning - no one said they had to go on a bodybuilding program just to gain mass and performing some explosive power developing weight training and plyometric routines certainly wouldn't destroy their agility (basketball players press weights, as do track athletes they don't compromise their agility because of it)

 

[olliec]

Hmm, look at Neymar. The guy is tiny and he's quality. I think Lamela doesn't need to bulk up because he isn't a race horse like Bale or Ronaldo. He is more like Neymar who just needs to find his footing in the PL.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

That's not true at all

They don't need to bulk for nonfunctional hypertrophy of their muscles

All the training would be strength and power based, any size gains would be merely a biproduct and more to do with their diet and calorific intake than the weights and explosive or plyometric training they did to make them stronger on the ball and more powerful explosive athletes

Look how many rugby players have significant bulk on them and still have the functional agility to be the best at their sport

Did Ronaldo or Bale lose agility but adding strength and muscle mass? no they went from strength to strength

Lamela and Soldado especially could clearly stand to gain some explosive functional strength to be more competitive in this league and it wouldn't adversely affect the other aspects of their game like agility and reaction times

All sports specific training and conditioning - no one said they had to go on a bodybuilding program just to gain mass and performing some explosive power developing weight training and plyometric routines certainly wouldn't destroy their agility (basketball players press weights, as do track athletes they don't compromise their agility because of it)

The OP talked about adding muscle.

What I said was correct. Bulking up, just gaining muscle in other words, can be detrimental to a players physical attributes.

We've seen videos of Lamela doing muscle conditioning work to aid acceleration/explosive starts when running. It's work that is already being done.

There is a different between adding muscle and strengthening/conditioning your body.

 

[Shea]

The OP talked about adding muscle.

What I said was correct. Bulking up, just gaining muscle in other words, can be detrimental to a players physical attributes.

We've seen videos of Lamela doing muscle conditioning work to aid acceleration/explosive starts when running. It's work that is already being done.

There is a difference between adding muscle and strengthening/conditioning your body.

No because adding muscle will not necessarily make them lose any of their speed or agility

The weight training would of course be functional and sports specific and the nutritionist would manage their calorie intake and weight gain

You're saying adding muscle would adversely affect them and that simply is not true, if it were why do so many explosive athletes in sports that require elite level agility train with weights and add muscle to their frame? Basketball players, rugby players and world class athletes all do so

How do you explain both Ronaldo and Bale adding significant muscle to their frame and this only coinciding with their rise to footballing stardom?

You're just being pedantic suggesting the OP meant they should bulk up for the sake of adding muscle mass without making it functional - all gains in muscle mass would be the result of improved physical conditioning that far from hindering their performance would be improving it. No one is suggesting they bulk up and look like Arnie or Ronnie Coleman but as the op suggested Ronaldo and Bale are perfect examples of players who used training and conditioning programs to develop their body strength and explosive power and added significant muscle mass in the process while becoming better and better and certainly not compromising other aspects of their game

Lamela may already be doing something - but what he's doing clearly isn't working. He doesn't look any stronger physically of functionally on the pitch so things need to be adjusted

 

[Syn_13]

I'm too afraid of breaking copyright regulations but this would've been a good time to post a pic of Ade Akinfenwa.

 

[Shea]

I don't actually think Soldado would greatly benefit from a strength and conditioning program - that's the least of his problems really

It's his missing of so many presentable chances, even when completely unopposed. He barely hits the target and so much as forces a save. I can't imagine getting a decent PB for his power clean will magically help him keep a header under the bar or get a shot from the six yard box closer to the goal than the corner flag

Lamela on the other hand - I do think he could work of his explosive power, core strength and stability and improve his natural talent with some physical attributes that would allow him to showcase those natural abilities more in our league

Obviously he wouldn't be wanting to bulk up significantly (no more than what Ronaldo and Bale have done) so as to maintain his strength to weight ratio and keep all his dynamic functional agility but he could certainly benefit from some form of explosive training to which would include throwing some bar bells around I am sure to develop that burst of power to drive through defences and not get so easily knocked off the ball etc

 

[mattie g]

Some people will never turn down the opportunity to call someone shit...
You shit!

(you're new so I'll explain, that was a joke. I am not really calling you shit... even though you may well be )

Oh...but I am!

 

[Kendall]

Hitting the gym only benefits a certaint type of player. Modric as an example didn't need to go and bulk up.

Ronaldo and Bale's game was about pace and power way before they packed on muscle. It was natural for them to become built. I don't think Lamela lifting a few weights would help, same for Eriksen.

 

[peter_the_yid]

I will chime here as an actual qualified Strength & conditioning coach, I'm also going to bullet point it for super easy readability.

-All the players at this level will do Strength training, for the most part they will train like beginner level Olympic weightlifters.
-Strength is of secondary concern to the players which is generally a by product of footballs attitude. In the Strength coach world Real Madrid are famous for being the only team that take it really seriously.
-The coaches are limited by time, most teams fitness coaches teams will be under 5 people. When you only get 3x1.5 hour sessions with the entire playing staff from <17's to first team a week you cant coach world class strength athletes unless the players put some extra time into it.
- Generally in sports when players struggle to improve with strength gains they are put on hypertrophy regimes, or told to 'bulk up a bit'. You dont see this a lot in football because, as mentioned, the approach to S&C isnt that serious for whatever reason.
-Unless we are talking massive adding size usually equates to an increase in speed and power. Muscles are the things that move you after all. Go to any decent amatuer Olympic weightlifter or sprinter and tell them their muscles slow them down, see what response you get.
-It would blow your minds how relaxed most teams are on diet. Most players will have a minimum target of nutrients to hit a day but thats usually it.

I have been lucky enough to work with and meet coaches at all kinds of sports teams so ask whatever and I will try to answer it!

 

[DaSpurs]

When you look at the success Ronaldo and Bale had in the Premier League once they hit the gym and added some muscle, why haven't our players been given similar training regime's?

Players like Soldado, Lamela and Eriksen still look like skinny 15 yr old school boys.

I wouldn't lump Eriksen in that category, but I completely agree that Lamela, Mason, and Bentaleb should live in the gym this upcoming summer.

 

[Bergsy]

"I know I look like I can, Gohan, but these bulky muscles make it hard to move fast, and if I'm going to beat Cell, I can't have anything slowing me down. I may have great power, but what good is it if I can't catch my enemy? It takes more than brute strength to win a fight."

 

[parklane1]

I'd rather they focus more on their technical ability and end product

Is the right answer.

 

[Locotoro]

As another qualified fitness instructor and strength and conditioning coach I concur with @peter_the_yid

A reasonable increase in lean muscle will not adversely affect a players speed, stamina, agility or technical ability. On the contrary it would actually benefit the players in most cases.

 

[mil1lion]

The issue with Lamela is not his physical game but more his casual approach. He plays games like it's pre-season at times and rolls his foot over the ball too often.

 

[Shea]

The issue with Lamela is not his physical game but more his casual approach. He plays games like it's pre-season at times and rolls his foot over the ball too often.

I disagree

His physical game may not be his only problem - arguably not even his biggest problem but it certainly is an attribute he lacks to be as good as he could be in the physical league we play in

I agree he takes one to many stepovers and lacks penetration but if he were a more explosive athlete he would be able to burst through more readily too and opponents would find it harder to dispossess him

Developing more explosive power and core strength is one of several factors to his game that he could and should be working on and I firmly believe it would improve him

 

[mil1lion]

I disagree

His physical game may not be his only problem - arguably not even his biggest problem but it certainly is an attribute he lacks to be as good as he could be in the physical league we play in

I agree he takes one to many stepovers and lacks penetration but if he were a more explosive athlete he would be able to burst through more readily too and opponents would find it harder to dispossess him

Developing more explosive power and core strength is one of several factors to his game that he could and should be working on and I firmly believe it would improve him

He could bulk up like Hulk and still be as wasteful as him though. I don't disagree that it would benefit him and I actually think he is more physical this season than last albeit with more work to do. I think more attention to his playing style is more important though. His decision making is not good enough at this level, his execution isn't good enough and he is too predictable with always wanting to come infield.

 

[mano-obe]

Not everyone can bulk up it's just not in their genetics. It would be like getting Crouch to be an extra 30lbs while doing all the cardio he does, it's just not going to happen. Soladado is near 30 years old he isn't going to change now, and he's actually quite bulky when you see him in real life, he is strong too. Lamela could add a little more mass but he doesn't want to do it quickly like Gabby Agbonhlahor who lost a lot of acceleration and pace hitting the weights.

People often said the same about Nasri, Modric, Silva and Oscar too but they're hardly muscle men but it makes them a lot more agile

 

[Shea]

He could bulk up like Hulk and still be as wasteful as him though. I don't disagree that it would benefit him and I actually think he is more physical this season than last albeit with more work to do. I think more attention to his playing style is more important though. His decision making is not good enough at this level, his execution isn't good enough and he is too predictable with always wanting to come infield.

yea as I say improving his power isn't the fix all cure for his problems but it is one aspect of his game that is lacking, one that could make a significant difference and one that is maybe the most readily addressed