Tottenham have become a boring, tedious and irrelevant club

[NEVILLEB]

What there is running through the club and also, tragically, through a lot of the fans is a loser mentality.

Winners are never satisfied. They take risks and want to be the best.

Many fans are still wounded from the Sugar era and are scared to see the club attempt to outgrow the limits they've placed on it.

This all comes from the top down as with all organisations. The mess of the last ten years will undoubtably be a reflection of Joe Lewis's character for good and bad.

 

[jambreck]

What there is running through the club and also, tragically, through a lot of the fans is a loser mentality.

Winners are never satisfied. They take risks and want to be the best.

Many fans are still wounded from the Sugar era and are scared to see the club attempt to outgrow the limits they've placed on it.

This all comes from the top down as with all organisations. The mess of the last ten years will undoubtably be a reflection of Joe Lewis's character for good and bad.

The mess of the last ten years?

I've been a Spurs supporter since 1972 and I've been attending matches at WHL since 1979. And the last ten years have, by a wide margin, seen our most consistently high league placings in all that time.

And I think you're quite wrong to say that some fans have placed some kind of imaginary glass ceiling above us. The fans to whom you refer are merely realistic. They understand how football has changed. They understand that money is king; that the Sugar years saw us left behind during a critical period of the professional game's development; that Spurs missed the Premier League and Champions League boats; that the best laid plans were twice thwarted by other clubs winning the oil lottery; that Spurs consequently face a perennially uneven battle; and that lasting parity - short of a takeover by someone willing to lavish his / her vast riches on the club - will only be achieved over the long term.

These fans are just as ambitious as you. They crave success every bit as much. It's arrogant and gratuitously insulting to suggest otherwise. You shouldn't take their choice not to lash out and look for blame in everything that the owners do as evidence of meekly accepting "our place".

 

[SugarRay]

What there is running through the club and also, tragically, through a lot of the fans is a loser mentality.

Winners are never satisfied. They take risks and want to be the best.

Many fans are still wounded from the Sugar era and are scared to see the club attempt to outgrow the limits they've placed on it.

This all comes from the top down as with all organisations. The mess of the last ten years will undoubtably be a reflection of Joe Lewis's character for good and bad.

Can't blame the fans, not for having an apparent losing mentality ( not sure this can ever apply to a fan. I'm sure there are plenty of life's wasters who support Chelsea and the most successful person I know, financially speaking, is a passionate Gillingham fan who knows his side are awful, embraces it even! )

Levy isn't what could be considered to be a loser. Neither is Joe Lewis who has far more dash, acumen, success and balls than anyone involved with Man City will ever have.

If the fans are to be blamed, its for having an unreal level of expectation, but to be honest that applies to a lot of fans during the prem era. The clubs problem has been employing far too many average ( and below average ) managers, coaches, scouts and players for the past 20 odd years.

 

[NEVILLEB]

The mess of the last ten years?

I've been a Spurs supporter since 1972 and I've been attending matches at WHL since 1979. And the last ten years have, by a wide margin, seen our most consistently high league placings in all that time.

And I think you're quite wrong to say that some fans have placed some kind of imaginary glass ceiling above us. The fans to whom you refer are merely realistic. They understand how football has changed. They understand that money is king; that the Sugar years saw us left behind during a critical period of the professional game's development; that Spurs missed the Premier League and Champions League boats; that the best laid plans were twice thwarted by other clubs winning the oil lottery; that Spurs consequently face a perennially uneven battle; and that lasting parity - short of a takeover by someone willing to lavish his / her vast riches on the club - will only be achieved over the long term.

These fans are just as ambitious as you. They crave success every bit as much. It's arrogant and gratuitously insulting to suggest otherwise. You shouldn't take their choice not to lash out and look for blame in everything that the owners do as evidence of meekly accepting "our place".

The mess is having so many Managers and Directors of Football.

We've got fans more interested in our financial results than the quality of our football.

The reason we are next to Swansea and Southampton in the table hasn't been through lack of cash flow. It's been through disastrous decision making. Appointing AVB and Baldini for starters.

As usual there are threads picking apart the latest Manager through the door under a year into the job. Most fans wanted Redknapp gone even though we finished in the Top 4.

It is a loser mentality and it's why we are seen as a soft target by other teams.

I haven't seen any threads where members have admitted they were wrong about backing Levy to replace Redknapp with AVB. No ones had the guts to admit it.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Can't blame the fans, not for having an apparent losing mentality ( not sure this can ever apply to a fan. I'm sure there are plenty of life's wasters who support Chelsea and the most successful person I know, financially speaking, is a passionate Gillingham fan who knows his side are awful, embraces it even! )

Levy isn't what could be considered to be a loser. Neither is Joe Lewis who has far more dash, acumen, success and balls than anyone involved with Man City will ever have.

If the fans are to be blamed, its for having an unreal level of expectation, but to be honest that applies to a lot of fans during the prem era. The clubs problem has been employing far too many average ( and below average ) managers, coaches, scouts and players for the past 20 odd years.

I agree with your last sentence. It's been a mess.

 

[Ndombers]

Yeah we're irrelevant because we haven't fucking ruined the game with sugar daddy owners. They should take City and Chelsea and put them in a relevant league of thier own and let the rest of us have a fair fight for the league.

 

[ultimateloner]

We will never catch up but what we can do is try to take some silver like another CC.

It could happen. Another financial crisis or economic disaster in UK will change the order of things; the top clubs are laden with debt. When the investors are forced to take on more debt to fund other things they will sacrifice the club.

Admittedly we've been boring to watch but so are the other clubs. This season's PL has easily been the worst in my memory. Man Utd/Liverpool were both awful. Chelsea's always been boring. Even Arsenal's been unexciting. Man City (when on song) is the only team that's fun to watch. I think the golden era of PL may be coming to an end...

 

[jambreck]

The mess is having so many Managers and Directors of Football.

We've got fans more interested in our financial results than the quality of our football.

The reason we are next to Swansea and Southampton in the table hasn't been through lack of cash flow. It's been through disastrous decision making. Appointing AVB and Baldini for starters.

As usual there are threads picking apart the latest Manager through the door under a year into the job. Most fans wanted Redknapp gone even though we finished in the Top 4.

It is a loser mentality and it's why we are seen as a soft target by other teams.

I haven't seen any threads where members have admitted they were wrong about backing Levy to replace Redknapp with AVB. No ones had the guts to admit it.

I'm not sure what it is that you want to say.

On the one hand, we're a mess because we chop and change manager and DoF too often? On the other, we lack ambition under ENIC?

You do understand that the reason why Levy has chopped and changed manager as often as he has is precisely because he is ambitious and desperately wants the club to succeed?

You can argue that getting rid of Redknapp was the wrong decision. In fact, you can argue that any number of appointments or sackings were wrong. But you can't, with any justification, say that it is evidence of a loser mentality or that the club lacks ambition.

And you're also quite wrong about AVB. In my experience, the vast majority of those who initially backed his appointment have subsequently conceded that he was a huge disappointment.

 

[shelfboy68]

I'm not sure what it is that you want to say.

On the one hand, we're a mess because we chop and change manager and DoF too often? On the other, we lack ambition under ENIC?

You do understand that the reason why Levy has chopped and changed manager as often as he has is precisely because he is ambitious and desperately wants the club to succeed?

You can argue that getting rid of Redknapp was the wrong decision. In fact, you can argue that any number of appointments or sackings were wrong. But you can't, with any justification, say that it is evidence of a loser mentality or that the club lacks ambition.

And you're also quite wrong about AVB. In my experience, the vast majority of those who initially backed his appointment have subsequently conceded that he was a huge disappointment.

Trying to gauge levys ambition has been hard to determine during his tenure because most fans,media etc will base it on how we fare on the pitch.
As we all know only one trophy won during his time for a club of our size is not good enough and i will argue with anyone that is the case.
But when you take a deeper look at the training ground and see and hear what it boasts then you realise what an ambitious project it was as is the stadium when it finally gets built,all these pieces are part of levys jigsaw but so far he is lacking sorely the final piece which is to attain a stunning first class team.
For the fans in general this is the biggest frustration and with for the most part the poor fare served this year and for most of his time in charge wont ease off until we get a decent team to complement the ground, whether we have a manager able to see this through remains in doubt but if all the stars can collide then maybe levy becomes a genius.

 

[Mullers]

The mess of the last ten years?

I've been a Spurs supporter since 1972 and I've been attending matches at WHL since 1979. And the last ten years have, by a wide margin, seen our most consistently high league placings in all that time.

And I think you're quite wrong to say that some fans have placed some kind of imaginary glass ceiling above us. The fans to whom you refer are merely realistic. They understand how football has changed. They understand that money is king; that the Sugar years saw us left behind during a critical period of the professional game's development; that Spurs missed the Premier League and Champions League boats; that the best laid plans were twice thwarted by other clubs winning the oil lottery; that Spurs consequently face a perennially uneven battle; and that lasting parity - short of a takeover by someone willing to lavish his / her vast riches on the club - will only be achieved over the long term.

These fans are just as ambitious as you. They crave success every bit as much. It's arrogant and gratuitously insulting to suggest otherwise. You shouldn't take their choice not to lash out and look for blame in everything that the owners do as evidence of meekly accepting "our place".

In the 1970's we won 3 trophies, 2 league cups and one Uefa cup, in the last 15 years we've won one trophy. I'll swap the consistent high league places for trophies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Last season they jump from 7th the previous season to within a whisker, a whisker, of winning the title. They done that with a mixture of academy players and players that were within our price range. I do not accept that we have to accept winning nothing, if there is good plan in place and it is executed as it should be executed, win can win honours.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Pretty much sums it up

http://gfycat.com/ActualHiddenCopepod#

 

[fuzzylogic]

In the 1970's we won 3 trophies, 2 league cups and one Uefa cup, in the last 15 years we've won one trophy. I'll swap the consistent high league places for trophies any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Last season they jump from 7th the previous season to within a whisker, a whisker, of winning the title. They done that with a mixture of academy players and players that were within our price range. I do not accept that we have to accept winning nothing, if there is good plan in place and it is executed as it should be executed, win can win honours.

So you would swap what we have as a club right now, for the shite we had in indure in 99? Change league positions? With the rubbish we had to put up with previous? They won a trophy and they were murder! We are in a far better state as a club in general than the club I grew up supporting in the 80's. Don't moan about cup final defeats and champions league qualification. Finishing 5-7 in the league, they were things that were unrealistic then. The club has moved so far forward over the last ten years it's unbelievable.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I'm not sure what it is that you want to say.

On the one hand, we're a mess because we chop and change manager and DoF too often? On the other, we lack ambition under ENIC?

You do understand that the reason why Levy has chopped and changed manager as often as he has is precisely because he is ambitious and desperately wants the club to succeed?

You can argue that getting rid of Redknapp was the wrong decision. In fact, you can argue that any number of appointments or sackings were wrong. But you can't, with any justification, say that it is evidence of a loser mentality or that the club lacks ambition.

And you're also quite wrong about AVB. In my experience, the vast majority of those who initially backed his appointment have subsequently conceded that he was a huge disappointment.

No I don't understand why Levy would have 14 Managers in 10 years. It smacks of extremely poor judgement. If he wants the club to succeed that's exactly how to prevent it happening.

 

[double0]

Since the Levy era we as a club have imporved and stablised. We have consistantly been a top 6 team a couple of 4th place finishes 5th and 6th with the odd 8th...that is steady progression also we have competed in european football.

We all know football does not stand still and other clubs are too imporving so we have to stay on the upward curve, many of us would like to be ahead of the curve but thats gonna need big bucks or cute signings or great management or a combination of the sum.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

If constant improvement was easy then we would have 18 teams fighting for the PL title, not 2.

Bridging the gap between the rest of the league is incredibly difficult. Man City needed to spend £1.5 billion before they won a title - that's how much it costs to go from mid table to PL winners. However, the gap is shrinking (at least to the top 4). Ten years ago the top 4 was the same every single season, since then 3 new teams have managed to finish there - Us, Man City, and Everton.

I just don't get this farcical line of thinking that if Levy was 'doing his job right' then we would be fighting for the title. Do you not think every single chairman in the premier and football leagues are trying to do the same? And yet none have achieved it.

 

[whitesocks]

No I don't understand why Levy would have 14 Managers in 10 years. It smacks of extremely poor judgement. If he wants the club to succeed that's exactly how to prevent it happening.

Extremely bad judgement in selecting them in the first place, perhaps.
I can't understand why someone like Levy, who does take a very keen interest in the game,
would have appointed any of the last 3 managers.

My conclusion is that he did not willingly appoint any of them and he was forced to from afar, by someone who does not have a clue, (but is loaded).

 

[NEVILLEB]

Extremely bad judgement in selecting them in the first place, perhaps.
I can't understand why someone like Levy, who does take a very keen interest in the game,
would have appointed any of the last 3 managers.

My conclusion is that he did not willingly appoint any of them and he was forced to from afar, by someone who does not have a clue, (but is loaded).

I think the AVB appointment perfectly exposed his approach.

Anyone who watched the boring football of AVB's Chelsea team wouldn't have touched him. But Levy picked him because he appeared to be well thought of by other people.

Similarly he ditched Sherwood because he wasn't popular with other people.

If he truly understood the game then he'd be able to go out and find us a fantastic manager but he doesn't.

I hope he sticks with Poch.

 

[Mullers]

So you would swap what we have as a club right now, for the shite we had in indure in 99? Change league positions? With the rubbish we had to put up with previous? They won a trophy and they were murder! We are in a far better state as a club in general than the club I grew up supporting in the 80's. Don't moan about cup final defeats and champions league qualification. Finishing 5-7 in the league, they were things that were unrealistic then. The club has moved so far forward over the last ten years it's unbelievable.

The play right now isn't anything to write home about. In 1999 we finished 11th, this season we could finish anywhere between 5th to 7th. You get the same amount of trophies for finish 5th to 7th as you do 11th. If we were a club taking the Europa cup seriously I'd be overjoyed at qualifying for Europe but really the club doesn't give a shit. The cups we won in the 80's is part of the reason why the club is great, 5th to 7th finish in the league does not compare.

 

[eddiev14]

The mess of the last ten years?

I've been a Spurs supporter since 1972 and I've been attending matches at WHL since 1979. And the last ten years have, by a wide margin, seen our most consistently high league placings in all that time.

And I think you're quite wrong to say that some fans have placed some kind of imaginary glass ceiling above us. The fans to whom you refer are merely realistic. They understand how football has changed. They understand that money is king; that the Sugar years saw us left behind during a critical period of the professional game's development; that Spurs missed the Premier League and Champions League boats; that the best laid plans were twice thwarted by other clubs winning the oil lottery; that Spurs consequently face a perennially uneven battle; and that lasting parity - short of a takeover by someone willing to lavish his / her vast riches on the club - will only be achieved over the long term.

These fans are just as ambitious as you. They crave success every bit as much. It's arrogant and gratuitously insulting to suggest otherwise. You shouldn't take their choice not to lash out and look for blame in everything that the owners do as evidence of meekly accepting "our place".

That's a cracking post.