We need a miracle
- Thread starter ginola99
- Start date
Unfortunately the best players want to play for CL clubs. It is all well and good saying go and win a cup every other year but you need the players to do so.
We have continually lost our best players over the years because they wanted CL football, and there are rumors now of Lloris and Vertonghen wanting out because we are not in it. How long do you think Eriksen will want to stick around?
I'd also point out when we last won a trophy, we happened to sell Berbatov and Keane straight afterwards. Cup and a CL place? Who knows if they would have stayed.
Although in typical Spurs fashion, when we did make CL we did fuck all in the grand scheme of things, I imagine Liverpool won't make the same mistake this summer.
Bobbins
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- May 5, 2005
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But surely for us to have these CL-capable players, who want to leave constantly because we're not in the CL, they must be good enough for the CL? Which suggests they'd be good enough to beat Wigan and Hull in the last two rounds of the FA Cup?
It also suggests that every time we sell CL-level players, we go and buy more CL-level players, who also in turn want to leave.
But they're here for a while, aren't they? Shouldn't we try and win something while they're here?
I'd also make two other suggestions:
1 - We will not be able to finish in the top 4 for the next 5 years (reasoning being that there are 5 teams bigger and better than us above us - we might be able to overhaul one of them, but not likely two, plus we have to compete with Everton). The Liverpool-are-crap honeymoon we enjoyed for about 5 years is over, and the United one season of being shitter than us will be too. Arsenal have finally decided to spend big and won something, and City and Chelsea are completely un-catchable. Who do you think we should finish above?
2 - Even if we finished 4th and got into the CL, some of our best players would still ask to leave should the likes of Real Madrid come calling and the right offer come in. It might delay one or two players by a season, at best. Players are intelligent enough to know that finishing 4th does not make you a top club who will be capable of challenging long-term. Players like Lloris will still deserve to play for a title-winning side.
My final point is the same I and many others have made before - the history books will not record Arsenal as having won 4th place for 9 years. They will simply say Arsenal won nothing for 9 years. Same as they would for us.
I want silverware, and the strength of the teams getting to the semi's and finals of both domestic cups in recent years strongly suggests it wouldn't be beyond us, if only we spent less time throwing everything we've got at trying and failing to finish 4th.
- Oct 2, 2004
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In recent years I've been a great proponent of putting more focus on the league than the cups, because I think if we can regularly get into the Champions League, then that in itself will start to bring the trophies as your funds and your status increases. Arsenal were the exception to that, but City, United and Chelsea pick up trophies all the time, and it's that sustained success at the top that allows them to do it.
Unfortunately we are miles away from those clubs at the moment. The stadium still seems years off, and I think we'll start to see more of a gulf between us and the 5 top teams in the next few years.
At that point, winning the cups should become, if not our priority, certainly higher up the list. Until the funds are there to compete at the top regularly, we should simply focus on winning whatever we can...although at the moment I'm not sure what that is!
Unfortunately we are miles away from those clubs at the moment. The stadium still seems years off, and I think we'll start to see more of a gulf between us and the 5 top teams in the next few years.
At that point, winning the cups should become, if not our priority, certainly higher up the list. Until the funds are there to compete at the top regularly, we should simply focus on winning whatever we can...although at the moment I'm not sure what that is!
Mr Pink
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By appointing the right manager and sticking with him I don't think those five will pull away. We'll still be in and amongst it and I'm hoping the new manager will be able to balance all our needs. We should be looking to do as well as we can in every competition.
I'm more or less agreeing by the way lol
- Oct 2, 2004
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- #47
I hope you're right.
But as we now have to start again, which will probably again mean a transfer revolving door this summer, I think next year we'll do well to finish higher than 6th, and at that point we won't be a viable alternative to the top 4 for most incoming players.
Personally I think we are in the second tier of the league, and although we've tried bloody hard to break through into the top tier, we haven't done it and won't do it unless we get some oil money pouring in.
So at that point we may as well focus on the cups, or at least not marginalise them as we have in previous years.
Mr Pink
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- Aug 25, 2010
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Agree, they certainly shouldn't be marginalised but I wouldn't start prioritising them either. League and Cup games should have equal importance
I actually think our squad is very strong, and if we can improve our defensive options and a add a touch more guile we could do well next season under the right manager. Pochettino had a quick impact at Southampton its all worth noting.
I don't think we need wholesale changes, just a manager who understands how to utilise what's he got.
If we get the right manager in and he works in the coming years to implement a successful system with tactics to delop intelligent movement and quick fluid passing (along with pressing and defensive work) that we are able to have our players be interchangeable components of then we have the infrastructure in place to at least be as successful as the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal
We have been successful in the past buying diamond in the rough players and we should continue to do this (rather than trying to compete in the market for established stars as we will only ever get the ones the top teams turn thier noses up at and have to pay too much for them)
We have also invested well in the youth structure and trainiing facilities and this should start wreaping benefits in years to come too (to combine with our ability to sign and develop players like Bale, Modric, Erkisen etc)
At this point it really does seem all we are missing is the "right" manager, one who can get things ticking and give us a vision to move forward with. The one thing we've never had is a clear pattern and vision to take us forward (I know some think AVB had one or was developing one - but I didn't believe in his vision and neither did the chairman ultimately so we need someone who's vision is cohesive with the rest of the club from the top brass to the players to the fans)
I hope the next man is the man to implement such a system - I hope we become bigger than the sum of our parts. I think for years now we've actually been better man for man than Arsenal, but Wenger's system has had them performing better as a team (even if they've not been consistent enough to challenge for top honours)
We've always seemed to be about as successful as the sum of the indivdual talent of our players IMO - not because we're a strong team or have great tactics etc. If Wenger had been managing the squad of players we've had at our disposal since the Redknapp era I have no doubt he'd have made them a top top team for example, I want the next manager to be a man who can make our indivduals perform stronger as a unit and over achieve beyond their respective indivdual abilty.
what gets seriously overlooked is that you have city and chelsea with untold funds
man unt one of the three richest clubs in the world
then there is arsenal who for 17 years have had continuos champions league
this at a rough estimate equates to approx half a billion pounds
if you realise this fact you will also take on board that our club has done fantastically well to hold on to the coattails of these super rich
with the right manager we may be able to do an athletico madrid
we live in hope
man unt one of the three richest clubs in the world
then there is arsenal who for 17 years have had continuos champions league
this at a rough estimate equates to approx half a billion pounds
if you realise this fact you will also take on board that our club has done fantastically well to hold on to the coattails of these super rich
with the right manager we may be able to do an athletico madrid
we live in hope
Athletico Madrid are a nice analogy to us
They've aquired some great talented players, much like Dortmund in Germany despite not being able to compete with the big guns in their league for top players.
Then a great manager has instilled a system and work ethic/team spirit which results in the performing above their station and able to battle successfully with the lions.
Of course its even harder to sustain that success - but it does illustrate the potential to compete with the big guns if you have a talented manager able to get the best out of your players.
We've already proven we're able to assemble talented squads and develop world class players while competing against teams with deeper pockets - what we' ve always lacked is that special manager able to optimse our performance and make us better than the sum of our parts be it by tactics and or team sprit and desire.
I really want our next guy to be a manager who becomes the next Simione or Klopp capable of leading a team of lesser names into battle against the world's biggest teams and be able to compete with them (not fall to pieces like we've seen us do against the top teams all year)
markieboy
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- Aug 1, 2013
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Athletico Madrid are a nice analogy to us
They've aquired some great talented players, much like Dortmund in Germany despite not being able to compete with the big guns in their league for top players.
Then a great manager has instilled a system and work ethic/team spirit which results in the performing above their station and able to battle successfully with the lions.
Of course its even harder to sustain that success - but it does illustrate the potential to compete with the big guns if you have a talented manager able to get the best out of your players.
We've already proven we're able to assemble talented squads and develop world class players while competing against teams with deeper pockets - what we' ve always lacked is that special manager able to optimse our performance and make us better than the sum of our parts be it by tactics and or team sprit and desire.
I really want our next guy to be a manager who becomes the next Simione or Klopp capable of leading a team of lesser names into battle against the world's biggest teams and be able to compete with them (not fall to pieces like we've seen us do against the top teams all year)[/quote]
Thats why we have to get De Boer.
DogsOfWar
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- Jan 12, 2005
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We may have won 'only' 2 cups in the last couple of decades but there are 10 or so other London clubs that have won nothing in that period (I'm not including lower league trophies).
Villa and Everton haven't won anything for nearly 20 years.
We can compare ourselves to the 5 teams above us and whinge, or conversely, we could compare ourselves to the 86+ teams below us and be happy.
Our glass is is actually more than half full.
Villa and Everton haven't won anything for nearly 20 years.
We can compare ourselves to the 5 teams above us and whinge, or conversely, we could compare ourselves to the 86+ teams below us and be happy.
Our glass is is actually more than half full.
FishboneSoldier
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- Feb 1, 2005
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This has been my football mantra for a very, very long time...
hellava_tough
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We'll never have the money the others have, so we 'just' need 4 or 5 young players to come good at the right time.
A long-term manager would also help.
A long-term manager would also help.
Shadydan
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- Jul 7, 2012
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We don't need CL football to attact good players, we've down pretty well in that regard if you look at who we've signed under ENIC. I've always said that CL is often overstated especially if we're concerned whether we make CL or not it won't make much difference who we sign because the salary will be the same if we didnt qualify in the first place.
sunnydelight786
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- Jan 7, 2007
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Good point and I'll add further by saying both A.Madrid and BVB have lost a big player every year or two yet still are in amongst the top sides. It really is about getting the right man in with a vision and letting him get on with it. Our problem is the 'boo boys' won't allow any manager to.....
Wheeler Dealer
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- Jul 29, 2011
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I don't think we can ever find the right manager, as the club, board and fans expectations are far greater than what the club can realistically achieve. We will continually limp from manager to manager, delivering 5th -7th position, later stages of cups but no more. This is our level and unless something fundamental changes this will remain our level, so we should not expect any manager to deliver much more given the current circumstances.
We had our best chance of pushing forward when we had Bale, Modric, VDV and King.. We didn't grasp this opportunity and the rest is history.
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Sp3akerboxxx
Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
- Apr 4, 2006
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Chelseas colossal spending didn't start with abramovic. They weren't flirting with bankruptcy when he took them over due to them being prudent.
I agree with most of the op, except I would prefer cl qualification to a carling cup win.
ginola99
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- Sep 4, 2005
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Six.
1993: Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham Hotspur
1995: Everton 4-1 Tottenham Hotspuro the
1999: Newcastle 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur (AET)
2001: Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham Hotspur
2010: Portsmouth 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur
2012: Chelsea 5-1 Tottenham Hotspur
After the disatrous end to the 2011/12 season it was evident that what this club needed was a winners' mentality, it was there for all to see. For me that collapse would never happened if we had won more trophies. Since that nignt in Munich I have wished that instead of qualifying for the CL back in 2010, we had instead won the 2009 league cup final and won the FA Cup (2010). Three consecutive seasons ending with a trophy would've bred a winners mentality and I honestly believe that we would be far better off had that scenario happened.
Despite that thought two years ago I was still attracted by the lure of the CL but since that collapse and Tim's tears at the Bridge I've literally had enough of hearing about it. Hopefully for once we find the right man and this time concentrate on winning trophies.
