We need to talk about the Y word

[MattyP]

Good luck on Sunday, to those who are going.

That's aimed at the police btw, because I'll be there and I'm genuinely interested on how they are planning on tackling this. One person getting arrested and marched out will, as it always does, lead to chants of "yiddo", which presumably will lead to a domino effect until there's no one left.

This is in no way an admission that I intend to or will use any forbidden or offensive words in my chanting.

 

[SpurSince57]

Crazy.

There was a debate on this on a BBC Sunday morning programme a couple of weeks back, on which Harry Horseshit put in a surprisingly not-too-embarrassing appearance. The participants, who included a rabbi, didn't seem able to take on board why 'Yid Army' gets sung, and kept banging on about 'Yid' being a term of abuse.

"But Spurs fans don't use 'Yid' as a term of abuse!"

"'Yid' is a term of abuse."

Zzzzzz.

So what will the argument be if we switch to 'Jew Army'? 'Jew' itself can be a term of abuse. 40-plus years ago, when I was at school, 'You Jew!' was commonly thrown at anyone regarded as a bit tight, and 'to Jew' remains in dictionaries as a verb meaning 'to drive a hard bargain'. Perhaps it should be replaced with 'to Levy'.

 

[M.I.B.]

Jewish supporters should chant vociferously at the match (If I were going I would). The police would look absolutely ridiculous if they arrested anybody Jewish for anti-semitic chanting (which is one reason that I can't see them arresting any Spurs fan for it)

What we need is, Daniel Levy to grab a microphone at half-time, come down on the pitch, and chant "YID-ARMY" and see what the hell happens then!!

 

[MattyP]

For the record, if I so desire to join in any such chants, I will be using the word yad. As I am sure you know, a yad is a Jewish ritual pointer.

I don't believe this is a racist or offensive term, but if it is please do let me know before Sunday, in which case I will change it to promote the free of charge purpose diagramming program with a multi-document interface, yED.

 

[SpurSince57]

What we need is, Daniel Levy to grab a microphone at half-time, come down on the pitch, and chant "YID-ARMY" and see what the hell happens then!!

But he should preface it by leading a mass karaoke of Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys' 'They Ain't Making Jews Like Jesus Any More'.

 

[Star_of_Davids]

For the record, if I so desire to join in any such chants, I will be using the word yad. As I am sure you know, a yad is a Jewish ritual pointer.

I don't believe this is a racist or offensive term, but if it is please do let me know before Sunday, in which case I will change it to promote the free of charge purpose diagramming program with a multi-document interface, yED.

The word yad is Hebrew for hand (the pointer is in the shape of a pointing finger from a hand so is also given that name). Maybe David Baddiel can find something derisory about the word?

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Political correctness gone mad.

Next there won't be any chanting full stop at games, are they trying to suck the soul out of football and more specifically, our club.

 

[MattyP]

From the CPS website

Section 3 Football Offences Act 1991

To prove this offence, the prosecution has to show that the chanting, which means the repeated uttering of words or sounds, was threatening, abusive or insulting to another person because of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin.

Given the match commander says use of the word yid may, may, be committing an offence, can this actually be proven unless someone actually complains?

 

[absolute bobbins]

Article in this week's Jewish Chronicle suggests it's legit

Spoiler

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/112013/police-warn-spurs-fan-over-yid-chants
A Tottenham Hotspur fan has been given an official police warning for chanting the Y word, in what is believed to be the first such incident since the Football Association issued its crackdown on the use of the word.
Paul Baines was handed the written warning while watching last Saturday’s match between Spurs and Chelsea at Spurs’ White Hart Lane stadium.
According to Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust chairman Darren Alexander: “Mr Baines was sitting in block 32 of the south-east corner of the ground, where everyone was singing things like ‘we’ll sing what we want’ and ‘Yid army’.
“As he went down to take a refreshment at half time, he was pulled aside and issued with the warning, but he wasn’t ejected. We’re still waiting for the police’s version of events.”
The Metropolitan police confirmed Mr Baines, who is not believed to be Jewish, was issued with the warning:
A spokesman said: “An individual was spoken to by police and formally warned concerning their language. The individual complied and no further action was taken.”
He added that “leaflets warning fans about the use of unacceptable language” had been issued to supporters chanting the Y-word at the game.
The incident follows the Football Association’s guidance last month that supporters using the term “Yid” could be liable to criminal charges.
This move angered many Jewish and non-Jewish Spurs fans who refer to themselves as “Yid army” and to the club’s players as “Yiddos”.
According to Tottenham Hotspur spokeman Daniel Felstein, a statement had been posted on the club’s website before the game, warning that police may take action against supporters using the Y-word within the stadium.
He added: “But all actions are being undertaken by the police — it’s nothing to do with us.”
Mr Alexander said the supporters’ trust had taken legal advice on the issue. “This turn of events is a worry because we thought that the one place our fans would be okay was White Hart Lane. We will try to give Mr Baines as much support as we can.”

I'm guessing you're a fellow 'full' yid, are you irked by this too or is it just me?

If anything it's creating a two tier Spurs fan, those who can chant Yid and Yid Army (like me) and those who can't for fear of prosecution.

I've put a call in to the Met but am awaiting a return of the call

 

[southlondonyiddo]

I'll be chanting loud and proud

If the authorities can't tell the difference between me and a racist west ham scum **** hissing etc then 'Houston we have a problem'

 

[theShiznit]

Funny that we could sit/stand and sing a certain c word that we cannot type on here (or most forums) for the whole game, with just that one word on repeat for 90 minutes and nothing would happen (but for perhaps a bit of bad press) but by singing something we have taken onboard as our monika from being abused with it a few times a game we may get arrested...

Sounds fair.

No way any of these arrests (if they materialize) will ever stick. This is a bad move by those envolved. I just hope it doesn't take away from the match and other up coming matches and threaten to derail us.

 

[marmite79]

I sense a test case coming on. If that person takes it to trial and gets a not guilty, then we can all carry on.

 

[Spurs 1961]

[/spoiler]

I'm guessing you're a fellow 'full' yid, are you irked by this too or is it just me?

If anything it's creating a two tier Spurs fan, those who can chant Yid and Yid Army (like me) and those who can't for fear of prosecution.

I've put a call in to the Met but am awaiting a return of the call

You have an extremely good point here. By driving a wedge between supporters they hope to stop the chanting.

Someone like me does not use the chant as I can't make myself use the word, but I fully understand what it is to reclaim a word/phrase. So under the threat of arrest I am even more unlikely to follow the crowd and join in. The police don't need to arrest all; they will just pick one a few people out and make them the scapegoats. It will be easy enough for them to find a 'Baddiel' who will claim to be offended. I can see the tactic a mile off

 

[kr1978]

I just can't get over the time and energy the met and the fa are putting into this when they both have much more important and urgent stuff they could be dealing with.

Just a pathetic excuse to get a bit of PR and be seen to be doing something on an issue they know will get lots of media coverage whereas apparently the police don't have the resources to deal with all the anti social and crime crap round where i live and elsewhere.

 

[stevenurse]

I've seen arguments this morning that we shouldn't be singing it as many of our fans aren't Jewish and they don't have the right.

Surely if it's offensive, then it's offensive, whatever your religious beliefs? Should there be a mandatory foreskin search as we enter the ground to decide if they go into the acceptable stand?

Also the arguement that if we sing it, then it makes it ok for opposition fans. Personally I'm not Jewish so maybe it all nonsense I'm talking and I don't have a right to have an opinion to say its inoffensive, however I believe the only way to break down the fact a word is offensive is to degrade it yourself.

What is certainly not ok is the hissing and hitler chants, but they go unnoticed throughout all this despite ours (although a historically offensive word) being a term of endearment

 

[Leachie]

Easy solution - every match going Spurs fan should convert to Judaism and become officially Jewish. Then there will be nothing wrong with chanting Yid!

 

[Dundalk_Spur]

They should hand out Yarmulkas to all the Spurs fans at the game, see how the police would handle that.

Also is the word Yid not used among Jewish men to greet each other??

Thirdly, what if we started shouting "Yiddish". Ok doesn't make much sense but it contains the letters Y I D so surely its offensive????

 

[Mullers]

Crazy.

There was a debate on this on a BBC Sunday morning programme a couple of weeks back, on which Harry Horseshit put in a surprisingly not-too-embarrassing appearance. The participants, who included a rabbi, didn't seem able to take on board why 'Yid Army' gets sung, and kept banging on about 'Yid' being a term of abuse.

"But Spurs fans don't use 'Yid' as a term of abuse!"

"'Yid' is a term of abuse."

Zzzzzz.

So what will the argument be if we switch to 'Jew Army'? 'Jew' itself can be a term of abuse. 40-plus years ago, when I was at school, 'You Jew!' was commonly thrown at anyone regarded as a bit tight, and 'to Jew' remains in dictionaries as a verb meaning 'to drive a hard bargain'. Perhaps it should be replaced with 'to Levy'.

Still is.
The example you gave though is based on a stereotype. Yes spurs fans mean no harm, it still doesn't mean people are wrong to be offended. I don't think it's a big deal to stop yid chanting and chant something else.

 

[Mullers]

Easy solution - every match going Spurs fan should convert to Judaism and become officially Jewish. Then there will be nothing wrong with chanting Yid!

Except that some Jewish people are offended by it.

 

[Mullers]

From the CPS website

Section 3 Football Offences Act 1991

To prove this offence, the prosecution has to show that the chanting, which means the repeated uttering of words or sounds, was threatening, abusive or insulting to another person because of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin.

Given the match commander says use of the word yid may, may, be committing an offence, can this actually be proven unless someone actually complains?

Maybe someone did complain.