What has gone wrong?

[ultimateloner]

We don't have defenders that are good at defending, Naughton, Rose, Walker, Vlad, Kaboul are all awful. I know Fazio isn't as bad as he's looked but he's not a real quality CB, Verts can be a great CB when he can be arsed but sadly can be poor when he's not, Dier I think has potential but need to be eased in and partnered with an experienced quality CB and preferably two full backs that have some idea how to defend, Davies has looked better at Swans than he has for us, still a work in progress he looks OK as a defender but needs to improve his tackling

I actually don't think a lot of our goals can be merely blamed on individual error, no doubt situations have developed as a result of individual error but a number should have been dealt with by any decent defensive unit. Just look at the Bojan goal as a good example, I can't remember who lost the ball but a decent defence should never have allowed him to make that run and shot, he was practically unopposed. It's been the same with a number of others. Yes individual mistakes to create a problem but no cover to try and mitigate the error

I think consistency helps even with comparatively poor defenders and we have had too unsettled a selection, but with full backs that are really only attacking players with little defensive nous then you need a solid quality CB pairing which I don't believe we have and you can't just rely on two cm's to provide enough protection and provide the attacking impetus in getting the ball forward to the attackers quickly and accurately.

We have to get a quality CB to partner Verts and if we want to persist with full backs that can't defend we have to add a third central mid, ideally by adding a deep lying playmaker to two defensively strong cm's. I think short term Capoue, Stam and Mason could do a job even Bentalab in the mix but longer term we could do with adding a quality playmaker as a first choice with two others

I actually think defence is a major problem, none can play the high line well, we are easily beaten by the ball over or through and also get exposed by pacy players running through or down the flanks. Aerially we are generally poor at free kicks and corners, distribution other than passing across the back when we have time and space is by and large awful, players seem to have little idea of responsibilities and far too often we see players making weak challenges and turning away from shots rather than trying to get in the way

Of course if we could score a few more goals it would ease some of the pressure so addressing that would help as you can afford to concede a goal a game if you can score two, but if we want to have a serious crack at grabbing a CL place we need to address the defence

As for our next game, we thought that games against WBA, Barcodes and Stoke were good opportunities to get back on track so it would be foolish to get too confident

So simply put u still think we can buy our way out of trouble?
As in u think the main problem is we don't have the defenders.

 

[Barry Mead]

So simply put u still think we can buy our way out of trouble?
As in u think the main problem is we don't have the defenders.

Oh that it were that simple, no I don't think it's just a question of buying our way out of trouble and besides with Yedlin to arrive, Walker back in training and Davies still to get a run to show if he can be first choice I can't see us buying any full backs in January and I can understand that

What I do think is we need

1 quality first choice CB in January-Garay seems to be wanting out of Russia and he looks the kind of experienced quality player comfortable on the left or right side that could make a strong pairing with Verts

That's the second need, Verts has to be a regular starter and Kaboul dropped

The third is to cut out the high line, we are constantly exposed when we play it and don't have the players that are best able to cope with it

Fourth if we continue selecting attacking full backs with little defensive ability we have to have three players in central midfield to give better defensive protection, two is not enough allowing the defensive cover required and the need to get the ball forward to the attacking unit

If we want to play 2 cm's and keep the shape 4/2/3/1 then we need full backs with far better defensive ability

 

[ultimateloner]

Oh that it were that simple, no I don't think it's just a question of buying our way out of trouble and besides with Yedlin to arrive, Walker back in training and Davies still to get a run to show if he can be first choice I can't see us buying any full backs in January and I can understand that

What I do think is we need

1 quality first choice CB in January-Garay seems to be wanting out of Russia and he looks the kind of experienced quality player comfortable on the left or right side that could make a strong pairing with Verts

That's the second need, Verts has to be a regular starter and Kaboul dropped

The third is to cut out the high line, we are constantly exposed when we play it and don't have the players that are best able to cope with it

Fourth if we continue selecting attacking full backs with little defensive ability we have to have three players in central midfield to give better defensive protection, two is not enough allowing the defensive cover required and the need to get the ball forward to the attacking unit

If we want to play 2 cm's and keep the shape 4/2/3/1 then we need full backs with far better defensive ability

Ok some tactical changes and buy someone to replace Kaboul given no one trusts Fazio.
I don't disagree. It makes logical sense. But then it's not what changes needs to be made that matters...it's how. I think Poch knows our probems he just hasn't show he could fix it.

 

[Barry Mead]

Ok some tactical changes and buy someone to replace Kaboul given no one trusts Fazio.
I don't disagree. It makes logical sense. But then it's not what changes needs to be made that matters...it's how. I think Poch knows our probems he just hasn't show he could fix it.

Yeah it's curious him having played as a defender and yet he has made some strange decisions. I think it's a shame Musacchio never happened and I can't shake the feeling that Poch and Verts have fallen out. Defence wise I believe we would have looked stronger with Musacchio and Verts as a consistent CB pairing

 

[Ossie'sAardvark]

The place stinks.
We have seen the heart ripped out of the club with our best players being sold
No news on the new stadium meanwhile WHL in its current form is crumbling and looks very run down
We pay the most money per game than anyone in the country
Our so called rivals are forging ahead of us.
There is little hope or optimism things will change.
ENIC/LEVY OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a shame. Levy/Enic seemed to me to start so positively and for a few years after but now we are just a selling club. Anyone who says differently is blinkered. History proves we sell our best players, it also proves ENIC/Levy make money. They must be laughing at us....£30 to get on the season ticket list whilst selling our best players, what a fucking joke. You can't ask people not to go, but we can stop buying merchandise.

 

[longtimespur]

You can rationalise anything on a positive or negative slant, and this stage of the season with less points played for it's easier to suggest we are x points away from this team or that team, but

18th placed Leicester are on 9 pts we on 14

Newcastle have turned things around and had a run but Cisse recently coming back into the team and starting to score has probably helped. Pardew also though hardly a great manager is pretty experienced and to be fair Barcodes had a pretty horrible bunch of injuries that are starting to clear. Surprisingly we have hardly had any injuries bar Walker

United even with a poor defence can take a certain comfort looking at the likes of Van Persie, Rooney and Falcao knowing they have a history of consistently scoring goals season after season, we can look at Ade historically erratic goals wise, Soldado great goal history in Spain but little yet in the PL, Kane still learning the game and having to show it consistently in the PL. Hardly the best comparison to give comfort that we'll score more than we concede compared to United

Teams we should be more than three points above like Stoke, Wham, Newcastle, Soton and Swansea have more points and the likes of Hull, WBA, Villa and Sunderland are all within 3 points or less than us

So you can draw a completely different set of conclusions especially when you consider that in a couple of our wins we were lucky to get those wins with last gasp goals when we were hardly the better team. Obviously you take your luck where you can find it, but it doesn't make the picture exactly bright

I don't like to be too negative and nothing I'd like more than to see things all turn around in the coming weeks and we start moving up the league and playing good football, but looking at the way we are playing, the lack of goals, the weakness in defence, the passing that seems to be getting sloppier, the seeming lack of motivation and desire, the constant changing of players and the curious selections and decisions it's hard to see any real positives right now or things changing any time soon

 

[Barry Mead]

It's true, I don't like being too negative, but sometimes it's hard not to be negative, especially when your scratching around looking for a few positives and keep coming up empty handed

 

[ultimateloner]

Yeah it's curious him having played as a defender and yet he has made some strange decisions. I think it's a shame Musacchio never happened and I can't shake the feeling that Poch and Verts have fallen out. Defence wise I believe we would have looked stronger with Musacchio and Verts as a consistent CB pairing

No point looking back at who we could have bought. Deals can fall through for many reasons and even if the player was good he still might not be worth the money.

I agree that vert is on his way out but I don't care. As I've said I feel defense is an area where you need to play as a unit so it mattes more if the coach can work with them, compared to say an attacking player where it's more about the individual.

For me vert thinks he could go to a better place so I wish him luck. We sell at the right price.

 

[riggi]

Saw one of coaches at work today. Told him to sort it out. Ive done my bit.







He was probably an under 16 or something coach......and he was a manu fan!

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

It's true, I don't like being too negative, but sometimes it's hard not to be negative, especially when your scratching around looking for a few positives and keep coming up empty handed

I feel the same way!

 

[Barry Mead]

No point looking back at who we could have bought. Deals can fall through for many reasons and even if the player was good he still might not be worth the money.

I agree that vert is on his way out but I don't care. As I've said I feel defense is an area where you need to play as a unit so it mattes more if the coach can work with them, compared to say an attacking player where it's more about the individual.

For me vert thinks he could go to a better place so I wish him luck. We sell at the right price.

Well a defensive unit needs players who can defend you don't build a defensive unit with players that can't. Verts may be a player who thinks he could go to a better place, but if he's your best defender and you don't like his attitude you turn around and say OK you think you are good enough for Barca or Real Madrid or wherever then you go out and show that, if you want a move you have to convince them you are good enough. One things for sure you don't sell at the right price a player you aren't even starting regularly

There is no point in looking back about players you didn't get, but that's why you have to make things work with the ones you have. That means tearing up ideas of playing a certain way if you don't have the players to do so. Instead you have to make what you have work. That's why I am concerned about Pochettino, he hasn't got the players for a high line, yet we continue with it, he hasn't got full backs with any defensive strength and yet we stick with two central mids, instead of working with the best players he has he uses the weaker ones

 

[prawnsandwich]

It is all down to the manager. Berahino was picked for WBA this season after proving at the end of last season he was good enough but only against Stoke was Harry tried. Against Shawcross on his own up front.
MoPo is stubborn. That is a trait I detest.

 

[SpursManChris]

Are the players still recovering from being mentally scarred after being thrashed last season?

LOL, you mean the trashings by City and Pool? I'd laugh if THAT was what our problem was.

 

[SteveH]

So simply put u still think we can buy our way out of trouble?
As in u think the main problem is we don't have the defenders.

Good defenders are like rocking horse shit.

 

[nowayjose]

Feels a bit like the whole mentality talk is something they buy into themselves more than they should and end up doubting their quality even more. Maybe worrying more about the opponents than their own powers. They end up trying to not do mistakes instead of making short work of opponents putting them to the sword. Harry had them quite incisive on the break, maybe the tactical stuff that worked in the past should be revisited. Maybe pochs soton players thought they were underdogs without entitlement and had to work hard whereas spurs thought they were good(and they are) but had that rug of confidence pullled away without the underdog fighter mentality to substitute.

 

[SteveH]

Feels a bit like the whole mentality talk is something they buy into themselves more than they should and end up doubting their quality even more. Maybe worrying more about the opponents than their own powers. They end up trying to not do mistakes instead of making short work of opponents putting them to the sword. Harry had them quite incisive on the break, maybe the tactical stuff that worked in the past should be revisited. Maybe pochs soton players thought they were underdogs without entitlement and had to work hard whereas spurs thought they were good(and they are) but had that rug of confidence pullled away without the underdog fighter mentality to substitute.

Should these "mentality" problems not be the domain of the coach to sort out?
Don't see us sending the complete squad to psychoanalysis as the answer.

 

[ultimateloner]

Should these "mentality" problems not be the domain of the coach to sort out?
Don't see us sending the complete squad to psychoanalysis as the answer.

Agree it's in coach domain but over the years we never found one who succeeded. So either we continue our search or else?

 

[SteveH]

Agree it's in coach domain but over the years we never found one who succeeded. So either we continue our search or else?

Pulis or

 

[double0]

Yeah it's curious him having played as a defender and yet he has made some strange decisions. I think it's a shame Musacchio never happened and I can't shake the feeling that Poch and Verts have fallen out. Defence wise I believe we would have looked stronger with Musacchio and Verts as a consistent CB pairing

Just get Vertonghen off your head his totally inept and overrated only because his a left sided defenfer. He does not possess the correct mentality to form a solid base...I reckon Dier Fazio pairing given games and time might work a treat...both have stronge characters imo.

I also like Chiriches but his on a hiding to nothing amongst the majority.

 

[longtimespur]

It's true, I don't like being too negative, but sometimes it's hard not to be negative, especially when your scratching around looking for a few positives and keep coming up empty handed

They're there if you look deep

Just get Vertonghen off your head his totally inept and overrated only because his a left sided defenfer. He does not possess the correct mentality to form a solid base...I reckon Dier Fazio pairing given games and time might work a treat...both have stronge characters imo.

I also like Chiriches but his on a hiding to nothing amongst the majority.

This for me too