When will it end

[Bails]

Tottenham have been developing as a team for the last few years, building the team around a core of British talent coupled with the correct purchases of players taking us to the next level.

We have gone from a mid table team in the 2003 era

To a team challenging for champions league in 2006 [only playing 40 games that year]

To a team that can combine the league and cup runs with european position finishes in 2007-2009

To recently being in the champions league

The next steps should be regular CL campaigns with silverwear

Then winning league and CL


However I have been getting frustrated with draws against Everton, Sunderland and Birmingham; after reflection I have thought these are not bad results but the anticipation is so high. Where do we end?

Thats the point of this thread

If we were to win the league (or hit the top we could ever achieve) such as a Man united treble then after will be a string of disapointments. All draws will be seen as a bad result and as fans we will become arragont and feel we deserve to win every game like the other teams.

We are progressing and getting better and better, but how much more can we improve and get better before we are reflecting on what was and we lose prespective of the Pleat 4-3-3 and manager merry-go-round we used to have. How long can we go saying we have potential and future?

I am not being pessimitic but just wondering how much further can we go and be a devloping team and when and what point will we reach that. Already I am becoming a fan that gets angry at any draw as i believe we should be winning every game. Is this what will await a succesful team where only winning is good enough? This would of course be ideal if the team did meet the expectations!

 

[tommyt]

Good post.

As long as I, personally, was able to maintain a rational level of perspective, then I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a problem. That perspective would depend on how I felt that the team / club was continuing to develop and move forward.

But that "RIGHT TO WIN" attitude would make this place unbearable after a draw or defeat I'm afraid.

 

[dvdhopeful]

Interesting post and something I have thought about as well, although not in such a focused way.

I can remember the many many many times Spurs have let themselves down in the last decade and those let downs get more and more painful the better the team gets, because of that expectation. Results, like a draw against Birmingham, which would have been a good result previously are suddenly 2 points dropped.

During those let downs I've often thought what it is like being a Man U fan, or in recent years, a Chelsea fan - what do they get out of football?; they expect to win every game, when they win it is just what should happen, when they lose, it is devastation, but so few and far between, it is pretty quickly forgotten.

Disappointment has just become part and parcel of being a Spurs fan, I cannot really envisage a time when Spurs are winning game after game and winning is expected in 95% of the games we play. I'm not sure how I'd cope with that - but it is beginning. The past few days I've been thinking forward to the Chelsea game and for the first time in years, I'm genuinely thinking about the game as though we are favourites and if we draw it, let alone lose, I know I'm going to feel shocking about the result.

Disappointment is part of supporting Spurs for me, the depression makes the ecstacy just so much more beautiful. Had we not been humbled on so many occasions by Arsenal, the result two weeks ago would not have been half as incredible as it was.

I've no idea if I'll ever get used to a genuine title challenging Spurs team (Too young to remember the glory glory days), but I am so excited about the fact I'm going to have to get used to it soon. COYS

 

[Lilbaz]

I will only be satisfied when I am pissed off because we didn't win the CL and League in the custom that I am used to, it was a bit scrappy and we had a draw on the way.

 

[edson]

I would suggest that you remember the days when a Spurs side would go over 10 games without a win, and for every top player we had we also had 2or3 bad players. this is the best Squad we have had since the 80s and over the next few years will get better and better, but never get too upset when we loose or draw a game or you might find yourself sounding like a Chelsea fan AND YOU DON'T WANT THAT.

 

[Mr Pink]

Interesting post and something I have thought about as well, although not in such a focused way.

I can remember the many many many times Spurs have let themselves down in the last decade and those let downs get more and more painful the better the team gets, because of that expectation. Results, like a draw against Birmingham, which would have been a good result previously are suddenly 2 points dropped.

During those let downs I've often thought what it is like being a Man U fan, or in recent years, a Chelsea fan - what do they get out of football?; they expect to win every game, when they win it is just what should happen, when they lose, it is devastation, but so few and far between, it is pretty quickly forgotten.

Disappointment has just become part and parcel of being a Spurs fan, I cannot really envisage a time when Spurs are winning game after game and winning is expected in 95% of the games we play. I'm not sure how I'd cope with that - but it is beginning. The past few days I've been thinking forward to the Chelsea game and for the first time in years, I'm genuinely thinking about the game as though we are favourites and if we draw it, let alone lose, I know I'm going to feel shocking about the result.

Disappointment is part of supporting Spurs for me, the depression makes the ecstacy just so much more beautiful. Had we not been humbled on so many occasions by Arsenal, the result two weeks ago would not have been half as incredible as it was.

I've no idea if I'll ever get used to a genuine title challenging Spurs team (Too young to remember the glory glory days), but I am so excited about the fact I'm going to have to get used to it soon. COYS

Cracking line that...

 

[Spurger King]

When will it end? Well firstly we would be wanting to achieve a period of dominance. Being favourites for most competitions, being the team everyone fears. I expect we'd be looking for the team to set records, and to maintain a continuous stream of success.

It would end with a decline, a dip, a falling from the pedestal...which in turn would lead to the expectation of another upturn in form.

I've thought about the scenario you have mentioned before, and though I wish nothing but success for Tottenham, I know that if we were to continuously win trophies a large part of the enjoyment I get from football would disappear. As others have said above, the lows make the highs more significant.

For me a trophy is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...I never expect us to get to it, but it doesn't stop me believing/praying that it is obtainable. Success becomes the stuff of dreams, and if and when we achieve it, it feels like I have slipped into some wonderful state of delirium that I subsequently find out to be real.

If we were winning all the time, success would be considered a 'right' or the minimum. Everthing would be flipped on its head, and suddenly instead of striving forward we would be scared of falling from our elevated position. The only emotional peaks would be those of anger and frustration when 'failing' to meet our imagined high standards.

Not only that but we'd have to contend with all the glory hunters getting in on the act. Plastics 'aint fantastic. Just look at Katie Price.

 

[Zimmy]

Cracking line that...

Indeed, happiness is found in contrasts. The people who sneer at us for lapping up every minute of this journey are either jealous or so spoilt rotten that they've forgotten what it really means to be a football fan.

City fans have fallen into this trap all too eagerly, if/when they finish in the top four I'm willing to bet they wont exact half as much enjoyment from the privilege as we have.

 

[mil1lion]

Um, our fans already expect us to win most games. Nothing will change apart from we would actually win more of those games. The fans will still have something to moan about. Its the Tottenham way. Bottom line is, you can never win too much in football. Once you win one trophy you go on to ntry and win it again. We have a long way to go to set new heights. We're many League titles from Man Utd, many FA Cups from Man Utd, many Champions League winners from AC Milan. There is always something to strive for.

I would say we're a club that strives for perfection. The only trouble is it doesn't exist in football. When Barcelona won everything in site, they still wanted David Villa, Cesq Fabregas etc to add to the squad. What more is there for the club to do? Continue winning in amazing style and to do so over a long period of time. They want to be considered the greatest of all time, and to do that they need to perform like they have the past few years for several more years. I think our ultimate goal would be to live up to the Bill Nic era and create a team and style of football that will be remembered in history forever.

Every individual will obviously take the success differently. Some will become arrogant, hell some people will start following us off the back of our success. But me personally, I will always be respectful to other teams and i'll be more than happy to compliment some of the smaller teams. I refuse to be an arrogant prick like so many Utd, Chelsea and even Arsenal fans. Football is a sport for the people. We all have banter amongst other fans and its fun, but there's a fine line between a bit of banter and being an annoying arsehole.

I'd like to think most of our fans would just hold their chins up high and be proud that we finally done it. But after so many years of underachieving and hearing rival fans knock us, I can also understand why some will go the other direction. There's obviously a long way to go before we can even get that far. Hell its going to take a long time for us to catch up with Arsenals years at the top end and playing regular Champions League football. Thats before even thinking about Man Utd. We need to establish ourselves as regulars in the Champions League, challenge for the League title on consecutive seasons, then start winning the Champions League and get our FA Cup winners count up (I remember when our 8 was so so impressive).

Its also worth thinking about future generations like having kids and grandchildren etc depending on your age. Thats whats great about football, it really never ends. You can enjoy some bad times, then times can get great, then you can have kids who grow up and enjoy the good times, then they can have kids and even if the good times continue, you can witness them grow up as fans like you and enjoy all the good times you missed out on at that age. It would be great to speak to future generations about the legendary Spurs side of the 2010s era, just like the Bill Nic era. You can also tell them how it wasn't always this good and teach them not to take the success for granted. Tell them about the Christian Gross era, tell them about a player named Jenas who frustrated us, or the number of managers we had, the 2 points in 8 games etc.

Football is all about the highs and lows. I tend to focus as much on the highs as possible, but I also strive for perfection. I want us to always get better and play better football. So even if we do reach great heights, there will always be that part of me that wants us to improve and keep winning things. But i'll never let it get to my head.

 

[mil1lion]

One of the things I compare it too really is winning the lottery. You spend all your life working for money, trying to earn more and more money so you can afford more things. There's something satisfying about finally earning money to pay for something you've always wanted. I dont know how it would feel to win the lottery and not have to earn that pay anymore. Suddenly you can afford everything you've ever wanted. I'm not sure if there is as much joy out of that. I guess we'll never truely know how we'd feel until we have it.

Reminds me of Only Fools and Horses. Del Boy and Rodders working hard to earn a small amount of money to support themselves and Grandad (and then Uncle Albert). Then the final episode before they revived the series for a few more episodes, they had become millionaires. They're clearing out the old flat and the phone rings, Del Boy answers it and tries to do another deal. Rodney reminds Del that they're not trading anymore and Del has to pass up a deal. It left a sort of empty feel about it, because after all that work to become rich it seems like the years of chasing that wealth was the exciting part of the journey. All of a sudden there was nothing left to chase. The dream was over.

 

[danielneeds]

I think our ultimate goal such be to win back-to-back titles, that is the mark of a great team, and is something even Bill Nic couldn't manage.

 

[BPR_U16]

Reminds me of Only Fools and Horses. Del Boy and Rodders working hard to earn a small amount of money to support themselves and Grandad (and then Uncle Albert). Then the final episode before they revived the series for a few more episodes, they had become millionaires. They're clearing out the old flat and the phone rings, Del Boy answers it and tries to do another deal. Rodney reminds Del that they're not trading anymore and Del has to pass up a deal. It left a sort of empty feel about it, because after all that work to become rich it seems like the years of chasing that wealth was the exciting part of the journey. All of a sudden there was nothing left to chase. The dream was over.

Exactly why I want us to do it the hard way, not with some rich arabs money or whatever. At least then IF it ever happens we might at least appreciate it.

 

[si_yidarmy]

all the other teams are struggling for "easy game" points too!

 

[EastLondonYid]

so long as we are improving each season, and we are, we will be ok.

 

[t79boy]

Um, our fans already expect us to win most games. Nothing will change apart from we would actually win more of those games. The fans will still have something to moan about. Its the Tottenham way. Bottom line is, you can never win too much in football. Once you win one trophy you go on to ntry and win it again. We have a long way to go to set new heights. We're many League titles from Man Utd, many FA Cups from Man Utd, many Champions League winners from AC Milan. There is always something to strive for.

I would say we're a club that strives for perfection. The only trouble is it doesn't exist in football. When Barcelona won everything in site, they still wanted David Villa, Cesq Fabregas etc to add to the squad. What more is there for the club to do? Continue winning in amazing style and to do so over a long period of time. They want to be considered the greatest of all time, and to do that they need to perform like they have the past few years for several more years. I think our ultimate goal would be to live up to the Bill Nic era and create a team and style of football that will be remembered in history forever.

Every individual will obviously take the success differently. Some will become arrogant, hell some people will start following us off the back of our success. But me personally, I will always be respectful to other teams and i'll be more than happy to compliment some of the smaller teams. I refuse to be an arrogant prick like so many Utd, Chelsea and even Arsenal fans. Football is a sport for the people. We all have banter amongst other fans and its fun, but there's a fine line between a bit of banter and being an annoying arsehole.

I'd like to think most of our fans would just hold their chins up high and be proud that we finally done it. But after so many years of underachieving and hearing rival fans knock us, I can also understand why some will go the other direction. There's obviously a long way to go before we can even get that far. Hell its going to take a long time for us to catch up with Arsenals years at the top end and playing regular Champions League football. Thats before even thinking about Man Utd. We need to establish ourselves as regulars in the Champions League, challenge for the League title on consecutive seasons, then start winning the Champions League and get our FA Cup winners count up (I remember when our 8 was so so impressive).

Its also worth thinking about future generations like having kids and grandchildren etc depending on your age. Thats whats great about football, it really never ends. You can enjoy some bad times, then times can get great, then you can have kids who grow up and enjoy the good times, then they can have kids and even if the good times continue, you can witness them grow up as fans like you and enjoy all the good times you missed out on at that age. It would be great to speak to future generations about the legendary Spurs side of the 2010s era, just like the Bill Nic era. You can also tell them how it wasn't always this good and teach them not to take the success for granted. Tell them about the Christian Gross era, tell them about a player named Jenas who frustrated us, or the number of managers we had, the 2 points in 8 games etc.

Football is all about the highs and lows. I tend to focus as much on the highs as possible, but I also strive for perfection. I want us to always get better and play better football. So even if we do reach great heights, there will always be that part of me that wants us to improve and keep winning things. But i'll never let it get to my head.

:bowdown: This

 

[andyw362]

Tottenham have been developing as a team for the last few years, building the team around a core of British talent coupled with the correct purchases of players taking us to the next level.

We have gone from a mid table team in the 2003 era

To a team challenging for champions league in 2006 [only playing 40 games that year]

To a team that can combine the league and cup runs with european position finishes in 2007-2009

To recently being in the champions league

The next steps should be regular CL campaigns with silverwear

Then winning league and CL


However I have been getting frustrated with draws against Everton, Sunderland and Birmingham; after reflection I have thought these are not bad results but the anticipation is so high. Where do we end?

Thats the point of this thread

If we were to win the league (or hit the top we could ever achieve) such as a Man united treble then after will be a string of disapointments. All draws will be seen as a bad result and as fans we will become arragont and feel we deserve to win every game like the other teams.

We are progressing and getting better and better, but how much more can we improve and get better before we are reflecting on what was and we lose prespective of the Pleat 4-3-3 and manager merry-go-round we used to have. How long can we go saying we have potential and future?

I am not being pessimitic but just wondering how much further can we go and be a devloping team and when and what point will we reach that. Already I am becoming a fan that gets angry at any draw as i believe we should be winning every game. Is this what will await a succesful team where only winning is good enough? This would of course be ideal if the team did meet the expectations!

Eventually everyone finds their level no matter how well run the club is. The level is determined by the wage bill in relation to the rest of the league/Europe. More wages, better finish. Now before some smart person says what about Newcastle/Man city? I mean a wage bill spent sensibly!

If you compare our wage bill to the rest, we aint gonna get much better, so enjoy it will its there.

Our natural position is 5th based on our access to resources. Anything above that is overperformance. But such is the strength of the PL, if we get to the CL we would automatically be QF material. Our success in that comp is no fluke.

 

[dooey123]

I agree with the sentiment in a way.

Arsenal supporting mates after the invincibles season would try to rub it in but I would always say that we still have the good times to look forward to where as for them the only way is down. Look at them now, no trophies in 5 years and every season is a dissapointment. Already, after we beat them they were saying their season is over.

I think we do feel like that at times especially when we beat Inter then lose the next game and it is similar to say, a situation of being 3-0 up at Old Trafford and them coming back to 3-3 in injury time, it feels like a loss but we should appreciate the point.

 

[dontcallme]

While I'd love to see us win titles and the CL that actually isn't the be all and end all for me.

I really believe in the notion that football is the beautiful game and I get upset when I see cheating, diving, poor sportsmanship and the attitude that winning is everything.

I want to see us playing excting football with a mixture of great team play which allows for individual brilliance. I want to see us playing hard but fair. I want to see the players truly committed and I'd love to see a few players that we can say are Spurs through and through like I had growing up watching Gary Mabbutt.

That's the end for me, it's not the trophies.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Good post.

As long as I, personally, was able to maintain a rational level of perspective, then I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a problem. That perspective would depend on how I felt that the team / club was continuing to develop and move forward.

But that "RIGHT TO WIN" attitude would make this place unbearable after a draw or defeat I'm afraid.

I am afraid that time is already here. I dont even bother to post after a game now as there is so much knee jerking

 

[dickyid]

Success in football is cyclical, in my lifetime the best teams have been Man U now, Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Forest (tell someone under 20 that Forest were the best team in Europe, you usually get laughed at)

I'd like to be able to look back on the "Teenies" or whatever they'll call the 2010's, and say "yes, we were that team". For a bit, anyway.