Why don't the BBC or Sky Sports know the offside rule

[bigturnip]

I think the idea of the thread is that it is not the "most offside goal ever" or 2-3yards offside.

Exactly, I was merely trying to point out that this was a much closer call than was being made out by the TV coverage (which I think the amateur detectives amongst us have now proven) and that Defoe and the officials were getting a lot more flak than they deserved for what was essentially a marginal decision and an honest mistake.

I don't agree with the TV pundits much of the time, but the fact that they don't even know one of the most basic laws of the game absolutely amazed me.

Sky corrected their mistake after the game when most people had probably stopped watching, but seeing the same mistake on MOTD2 six hours after the goal was what prompted me to start the thread.

I have to say I was expecting a slightly easier ride than I got in convincing fellow Spurs fans that the mud being slung in Defoe's direction was more than a little undeserved, but I guess it just shows how few people understand the offside law or how many take what they are told on TV as gospel.

So what if BBC and Sky don't understand it, what's more concerning is the number of refs who don't understand it. I used to pride myself on being able to explain, using coins and condiment shakers on a cafe or pub table, the offside rule. Now you'd need a full pocket of change, salt, pepper and vinegar dispensers, three elderly gentlemen and a hammer before you can even begin to explain it.

It's gotten too complicated now. In the past it was very easy and the players knew where they stood. Now it's been played with soo much no-one can say for sure what is or isn't, so the players come up with ways to use the new rules, such as the way Henry would stand offside, then bomb back and confuse the oppo with a dummy, leaving a runner from midfield to tear through, or Man Utd a while back, when one of their attackers was basically shielding the oppo keeper and he jumped at the last minute, letting the ball pass under his legs, but as he didn't touch it was deemed not interfering with play - how the f*ck is that not interfering, simply because it didn't touch him?????

Just make it as it was, if ANY attacking player is forward of the last defender as the ball is played then it will be deemed offside. Simple, job done, tell the players to stfu and deal with it.

I don't think there is any confusion amongst refs about the law of being in an offside position, the only confusion comes in when the question of whether a player is interfering with play or not is raised. That is irrelevant in this case, this was a simple case of Defoe's position, we all know he was involved in play, he scored the goal!

 

[Chris12345]

I would credit most people on this forum with more intelligence than this, did you never do vanishing points at school? It's quite a baisc concept that was part of the GCSE syllabus, at least it was when I was at school 10 years ago.

You have two lines of reference here, the 18 yard line and the faint line about a yard in front of the penalty spot. Continue these lines on beyond the top of the pictue and they will eventually cross, now draw a line from where they cross to the ball and carry it on to get the 'offside line'. My guess is the red line is far closer to being correct than the blue or green lines.

Thank fuck some of us are sane Big Turnip... (although I feel somewhat insane saying 'Big Turnip')

Yeah, I used the 18 yard line and the faint Rugby marking, although yeah I did my image in a hurry with a track pad lying on a sofa so is slightly out, my point was that if I can do that like that, and still get closer than BBC who had 5 hours and proper tech to do it... wtf is going on!

 

[Chris12345]

I don't think there is any confusion amongst refs about the law of being in an offside position, the only confusion comes in when the question of whether a player is interfering with play or not is raised. That is irrelevant in this case, this was a simple case of Defoe's position, we all know he was involved in play, he scored the goal!

Indeed, it's unbelievably simple, it's 'expert' pundits that confuse things by introducing concepts such as 'daylight' and the like, which simply don't exist in offside law, the only time in recent memory I can remember a referee getting the offside law wrong (as opposed to judging it wrong) was Defoe's 'goal' against Liverpool.

 

[brasil_spur]

Eek

Does anyone here have any idea about perspective at all?!?!

I give up.

It is very scary isn't it.

 

[bigturnip]

Thank fuck some of us are sane Big Turnip... (although I feel somewhat insane saying 'Big Turnip')

The Big Turnip thing is a reference to Black Adder

 

[cwy21]

Never tried this before, but I don't see why it shouldn't be very accurate.

I measured the number of pixels between the goal line and 18 perpendicular to the ball and Defoe, then measured the distance in pixels between the ball/Defoe and goal line. Used the calculator a bit and came up with Defoe being about a foot offside.

PS: I measured from his foot. It is probable his upper body was up to a foot closer to the GL.

 

[bill]

I think this thread should be sent to the BBC and SKY

 

[sloth]

Chris12345, i think you are correct

Bigturnip, it certainly does have relevance. If Bale and Defoe and through on goal, no defenders, Defoe is behind Bale, Bale slides the ball across goal forwards, Defoe is offside.

If he slides the pass backwards, Defoe is onside

That's just wrong. From the same article you linked to:

"A player is in an offside position if he is in his opponents' half of the field and is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the next to last opponent."

In other words even if the recipient of the pass is beyond the last defender and the pass to him is forwards as long as he was behind the ball when it was played he was onside. The point Turnip and others make is a valid one, Defoe was offside, however not because he was beyond the last defender and received a forward pass but because he was a foot beyond the ball when it was played. Offside then, but marginally.

 

[duffman22]

I pointed this out to my dad today. I also can't believe how many people in this thread don't understand the offside rule. The ball is closer to the goal-line than the last defender, so the defender is irrelevant. And those early attempts at working it out by using Paint were hilarious. :lol:

 

[brasil_spur]

Never tried this before, but I don't see why it shouldn't be very accurate.

I measured the number of pixels between the goal line and 18 perpendicular to the ball and Defoe, then measured the distance in pixels between the ball/Defoe and goal line. Used the calculator a bit and came up with Defoe being about a foot offside.

PS: I measured from his foot. It is probable his upper body was up to a foot closer to the GL.

I agree, it should be accurate.

Here's my take on it:

Ball leaving Bale's foot = 480 inches from goal
Defoe's head = 471 inches from goal

So yeh like we'd worked out originally - about 9/10 inches offside.

 

[CaptainCat]

This thread is fantastic! Well done to (almost) all you photoshoppers! :-D

 

[3Dnata]

What annoys me about this is not the commentators, not the officials, but that it was almost a carbon copy of Defoe's disallowed goal from the Leeds reply again from a Bale cross.
There's no excuse for either, he really should be able to look along the line, he might end up costing himself and Spurs.

 

[Chris12345]

Indeed, that extra 10 inches gave him no real advantage, he'd of scored either way!

Grrrr! :bang:

 

[worcestersauce]

What annoys me about this is not the commentators, not the officials, but that it was almost a carbon copy of Defoe's disallowed goal from the Leeds reply again from a Bale cross.
There's no excuse for either, he really should be able to look along the line, he might end up costing himself and Spurs.

As Pav did for both his goals!

So we're all agreed then the commentators are numbnuts who don't know the rules and the Lino' was not the complete idiot that they thought, as I said on the match thread on day one.
I think the commentators should be suspended one or two games like the officials when they get something like that wrong, arsholes.

 

[Zammo]

I have enjoyed reading this thread immensely. Thank you to all that participated.
Some people seem to need to go back to school though.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Oh, please… He was a mile off (OK, a yard or maybe two) when the ball was played. It was a shocking decision. On the other hand, we've had numerous shockers against us over the years, so what the hell?

Defoe Vs Liverpool sticks in the throat from me.

 

[Houdini]

Maybe that's what we need to keep Jermain onside, 4 blokes in the stands firing high intensity lasers at him every time he strays offside. A few burns or his shirt catching fire and he would soon learn.

Good idea.....:grin:

The referee's decision is final, therefore he was not offside.

That's what I was always taught.

We have to swallow, and live with the fact, that Defoe's goal stood....:wink:

 

[TopSpurMan]

quite right he was off - we only won 0 - 2 not 0 - 3

 

[Chris12345]

Clearly level.

Of course it helps that the red line in the pic is NOT parallel with the 18 yard line.

Well, it is supposed to be parrallel to be fair. That's how it's judged if the ball is forward or backwards. And the ball is level with the last defender as I said.

Why don't you just draw a line down the 18 yard line, and then move it across?

Your wish is my command.

Quoted for LOLZ

:lol:

Just shown this thread to some non-Spurs mates... they enjoyed it :lol:

 

[brasil_spur]

I do feel it makes the average Spurs fan look more idiotic than most though, i think for the sake of some on here we'd be better off hiding this thread.