Will FFP finally put spurs where they belong?

[vegassd]

There'll be hell to pay if City are perceived to have been dealt with leniently. I think they could well be given a long transfer ban (or cap) on top of points deductions over a few seasons. They might even be given a lower FFP threshold for a few seasons. Whatever it is, I hope they can't get it out of the way in a single season being as they've cheated for nigh on a decade.

I don't think there will be any leniency about it. It's simply a case of what you can prove, and if the prosecuting panel cannot 100% prove that the revenues were dodgy, the salaries were not fully disclosed, and that City didn't cooperate, then there isn't much judgement to make.

We all know they were bending rules left, right and centre, but I think it's going to be a very difficult process trying to prove it to the level of punishment we all want to see.

Even then, City are just one team. The best outcome overall is for all teams to fall in line, and make sure the Qataris or whoever can't buy West Ham and spend £1bn on winning the league there. I would love to see City get relegated for example, but it would be for nothing if a new City came along.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

The government pushed through the Saudi purchase of Newcastle. Why wouldn’t they stick their nose in again. The murky world of politics.

Crooked politicians of the current government lobbying on behalf of the Saudis is one thing , interfering with a judicial panel made up of eminent King's Counsel lawyers and former Deputy High Court judges is another thing.
By the time a verdict is given current load of spivs and conmen/women might have been thrown out in the next election.
And considering UK governments have often lost cases in UK law courts not sure the judiciary are that scared of the Government.

 

[tommo84]

I don't think there will be any leniency about it. It's simply a case of what you can prove, and if the prosecuting panel cannot 100% prove that the revenues were dodgy, the salaries were not fully disclosed, and that City didn't cooperate, then there isn't much judgement to make.

We all know they were bending rules left, right and centre, but I think it's going to be a very difficult process trying to prove it to the level of punishment we all want to see.

Even then, City are just one team. The best outcome overall is for all teams to fall in line, and make sure the Qataris or whoever can't buy West Ham and spend £1bn on winning the league there. I would love to see City get relegated for example, but it would be for nothing if a new City came along.

(Re NUFC expanding St James’ Park) Yes they could but their season ticket prices are a fraction of ours. Their cheapest is £417, ours is £807. Their most expensive is £1055, ours is £2233. And they are not going to be able to generate other revenue at their stadium like we can.

I was worried when they got taken over, I even thought Madders would choose them over us as I expected them to spend spend spend but I'm so glad I was wrong. If the rules remain in place it will surely take them years and years before they can catch up to the likes of City.

Thought I’d reply to the @Colonel_Klinck post from the Opposition Fans thread in here rather than take that (further) off topic. It seems to me that the PSR rules are having an additional impact on the transfer activity of clubs that is seriously affecting some clubs’ transfer strategies. Namely, clubs can’t afford to spend big and get it wrong (or at least not as much as some could previously). Chelsea’s now stopped tactic of amortising fees over very long contracts was an attempt to get around this but whereas Chelsea under Abramovic could stockpile talent and loan 60% of their acquisitions out to Werder Bremen and Vitesse, Newcastle can’t do that and still stay within PSR. So instead we’re seeing clubs be more cautious in the transfer market.

This in turn reduces the risk of ‘another City coming along’.

This should be a good thing, and could level the playing field somewhat as it means that having an extra £100m in revenue a year is only a competitive advantage if you spend it wisely (hi Man Utd & Antony). Of course that stops being the case if we go back to seeing smaller clubs bailing out the bigger clubs by taking the expensive flops off their hands (eg when Crystal Palace bought Benteke from Liverpool after an awful season but for the same fee Liverpool paid to Villa!).

 

[MR_BEN]

Couldn’t agree more but for this to occur they need to throw the book at city and Chelsea not just punish the smaller clubs without the same power. they have a chance to make the premier league a true competition again where the best run clubs will have the advantage not the sugar daddy oil state clubs which we all agree would be a better watch. However they won’t want the league to lose pep and de bruyne etc as the big stars are money spinners for the league. Will they be strong enough to do the right thing or will they cave to the tv rights they might lose by losing city.

The league wouldn’t lose the likes of Pep and De Bruyne… City would.

 

[MR_BEN]

N

While I agree that the biggest step is one of the biggest clubs getting punished, just the threat of punishment appears to be having an impact on rival spending.

If Newcastle had come into the level of money their owners having over 10 years ago, they'd consistently be spending huge right now, just as City and Chelsea did when their owners took over. Instead it sounds like they are curbing their spending and might even sell a few.

So who knows, maybe this coinciding with our currently productive transfer committee is going to boost us pushing on.

Newcastle have spent £400m since the Saudi’s came in.

£400m.

Now they can’t even consider a £6m loan fee. They are in trouble.

£75m loss last year. They will breach FFP this season unless the make a lot of sales.

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

I had this debate with a friend (a city fan ) last night in pub and in the end he said so what

we have gained success

he could not answer though when I asked if he thought they would have won any trophies without financial doping

he next table then joined in

a Georgie and manure fan

They both think city are fucked

i pointed out to the united fan they are also fucked
Frequent Managerial change Large turnover of players over inflated transfer fees and wages

then selling/loaning players at a loss

this could be the time for well run clubs

Like us

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Re above post on Newcastle & FFP, I find Newcastle financial reports quite bizarre. All their yearly company accounts available at the Companies House site. Their matchday income figures which are for season tickets, matchday tickets and corporate hospitality
June 2007 revenue £33,557,000 average home attendance 50686
June 2014 revenue £25,910,000 average home attendance 50395
June 2022 revenue £27,529,000 average home attendance 51487

The years picked at random to give a spread, think in accounts for 2007 they had euro football but how can you be earning less on gate receipts over a 15 year period and paying players wages in the millions in 2022.
With the attendances they get their revenue should be so much higher, maybe then they wouldn't have FFP problems.

 

[1882andallthat]

Indeed. City I believe as far as spend to turnover are fine as far as the books are concerned. With City it's about payments that have come through 3rd parties and either not been disclosed or have come from a completely seperate entity than the club itself. I think it's a similar case with Chelsea. They both basically cooked the books to meet FFP levels, which in itself tells you that FFP is and always has been a concern to them. Basically it's a lot worse than what Everton and Forrest have done.......If it can be proved.

Which means that as far as I'm concerned, for me to be truly satisfied that FFP is fit for purpose it must really make the punishments fit the crimes, so I want to see no half measures if they finally issue rulings against Chelsea and Man City and find that they have breached the rules in much more sinister and underhand ways and means. Punishments and levels of sanctions against Chelsea and Man City should completely dwarf the 10 point deduction issued to Everton, if they don't then FFP is not fit for purpose. Until I see this I remain to be fully convinced that it is doing what it was supposed to be doing.

 

[Metalhead]

This is the key for me - let us follow our own strategy and let the chips fall where they may.

It feels like whenever we have spent money, there has always another team (or handful of teams) who have spent considerably more than us, or maybe spent the same on what should be a more limited budget. Fans are left thinking "if they can spend X, why can't we?". I think the truth is that those clubs can't really spend X, which will hopefully be what FFP brings back into balance.

I agree with @guernman that the likelihood of City being thrown to the wolves is unlikely. But if clubs as a whole start to spend within their means, then all the frustration we have suffered as fans over the past 10-odd years should start to reap rewards.

This is spot on. No need to get overly optimistic or pessimistic. Doing what we do - especially at the moment (and let's hope it continues) is the right way of doing things.

 

[robotsonic]

N

Newcastle have spent £400m since the Saudi’s came in.

£400m.

Now they can’t even consider a £6m loan fee. They are in trouble.

£75m loss last year. They will breach FFP this season unless the make a lot of sales.

Does make you wonder exactly what their plan was. It dragged on for months and had to be forced over the line by the Tories, so they had a lot of time to plan.

You'd presume if they planned to pump money in by dodgy sponsorships to offset the spending that they'd have done the requisite due diligence to know whether they could get away with it these days or not.

Looks like maybe they didn't. Actually doling out a points deduction for once really does have everyone running scared. It's excellent.

 

[only1waddle]

I had this debate with a friend (a city fan ) last night in pub and in the end he said so what

we have gained success

he could not answer though when I asked if he thought they would have won any trophies without financial doping

he next table then joined in

a Georgie and manure fan

They both think city are fucked

i pointed out to the united fan they are also fucked
Frequent Managerial change Large turnover of players over inflated transfer fees and wages

then selling/loaning players at a loss

this could be the time for well run clubs

Like us

Not so sure about Utd, IF Ratcliffe puts a sensible recruitment team in place and they basically do what we've started to do and decide on a clear direction, they could use their superior revenue stream to take advantage if City are removed.
They have a ton of players out of contract in 2025 so could be back in a few seasons, but hopefully they recruit badly again and fuck it all up.

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

Not so sure about Utd, IF Ratcliffe puts a sensible recruitment team in place and they basically do what we've started to do and decide on a clear direction, they could use their superior revenue stream to take advantage if City are removed.
They have a ton of players out of contract in 2025 so could be back in a few seasons, but hopefully they recruit badly again and fuck it all up.

The problem for Utd is their player turnover has been pretty big with crazy transfer fees and wages

 

[DogsOfWar]

The key to footballing success is a triangle of Money/Manager/Players so levelling the playing field financially doesn't guarantee success.

Although City and Chelsea fundamentally cheated, their revenues weren't larger than United's or much larger than Liverpool's (although City have achieved that now).
They still needed the right managers and to buy the right players.

I've always defended Levy because his sole interest was to get to the stage where we had the money to compete in the first place.
Now we pretty much have the money it's the manager and player purchases that will take us over the line.
And since we've had that money over the last couple of seasons we haven't got a lot wrong.

 

[only1waddle]

The problem for Utd is their player turnover has been pretty big with crazy transfer fees and wages

I know, what I'm saying is that their situation could change quickly, we're talking around 11 players ending in 2025, a couple at the end of this window, within 3 seasons they could be a major player in the league again.

 

[rossdapep]

N

Newcastle have spent £400m since the Saudi’s came in.

£400m.

Now they can’t even consider a £6m loan fee. They are in trouble.

£75m loss last year. They will breach FFP this season unless the make a lot of sales.

That Tonali signing was really poorly thought out.

 

[goughie1966]

Not so sure about Utd, IF Ratcliffe puts a sensible recruitment team in place and they basically do what we've started to do and decide on a clear direction, they could use their superior revenue stream to take advantage if City are removed.
They have a ton of players out of contract in 2025 so could be back in a few seasons, but hopefully they recruit badly again and fuck it all up.

Utd currently owe £384m in transfer purchases. This is a record amount. They've also made a loss of £26m in the first quarter despite an increase in turnover.

 

[BPR_U16]

I know, what I'm saying is that their situation could change quickly, we're talking around 11 players ending in 2025, a couple at the end of this window, within 3 seasons they could be a major player in the league again.

Of course it will take a fair bit of money to replace those 11 players (already owe a significant amount for transfers made) - so they will be trying to sell some of those where contract is to 2025.

For them to be able to operate successfully they will need to get good returns on players still under contract who they deem not good enough - Maquire, and Varane for example

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

BBC doing a bit on this now

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

Of course it will take a fair bit of money to replace those 11 players (already owe a significant amount for transfers made) - so they will be trying to sell some of those where contract is to 2025.

For them to be able to operate successfully they will need to get good returns on players still under contract who they deem not good enough - Maquire, and Varane for example

The huge outlay on players like casimero with little to no sell on value due to his age don’t help

 

[Westmorlandspur]

N

Newcastle have spent £400m since the Saudi’s came in.

£400m.

Now they can’t even consider a £6m loan fee. They are in trouble.

£75m loss last year. They will breach FFP this season unless the make a lot of sales.

I think you will find it’s 300m