Will FFP finally put spurs where they belong?

[kernowspurscoach1977]

I watched 5/10 minutes of SSN last night DLD borefest

Lee Hendrie and a couple of others (whose names escape me) bemoaning the fact that FFP is stopping Newcastle, with the richest owners in world, from spending what they want, which is unfair and spoiling the league and making it less competitive

I truly don’t get how they have this narrative

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I watched 5/10 minutes of SSN last night DLD borefest

Lee Hendrie and a couple of otters (whose names escape me) bemoaning the fact that FFP is stopping Newcastle, with the richest owners in world, from spending what they want, which is unfair and spoiling the league and making it less competitive

I truly don’t get how they have this narrative

Because they are idiots. I hardly watch Sky now other than matches because everything is about getting insta and x hits. The level of entertainment, presenter, guests and so called specialists is up there with daytime tv chat shows. Utter drivel.

 

[Col_M]

I watched 5/10 minutes of SSN last night DLD borefest

Lee Hendrie and a couple of otters (whose names escape me) bemoaning the fact that FFP is stopping Newcastle, with the richest owners in world, from spending what they want, which is unfair and spoiling the league and making it less competitive

I truly don’t get how they have this narrative

broadcasters want high spending clubs because it draws talent to the league and means they can sell their products across the world and in turn pull in advertising revenue. So naturally FFP is bad for them.

 

[easley91]

I watched 5/10 minutes of SSN last night DLD borefest

Lee Hendrie and a couple of otters (whose names escape me) bemoaning the fact that FFP is stopping Newcastle, with the richest owners in world, from spending what they want, which is unfair and spoiling the league and making it less competitive

I truly don’t get how they have this narrative

Because if nobody is spending then deadline days are boring. Without it they can't generate the views, clicks and hits like they used to. Being honest it was as dull a deadline as I can remember, even on here it was dead quiet until the Bergvall stuff at the end (which is irrelevant because he won't come until the summer).

SSN and the like need major spending and lots of big transfers to keep their aura. Without it nobody cares.

 

[muppetman]

Wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but a write-up in The Athletic about the recent window and why FFP may have finally helped us.

Spoiler

Tottenham’s January transfer window: What does it tell us about the club’s future?​

By Charlie Eccleshare
1h ago

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It started with a flurry of activity and ended with one of Europe’s most exciting youngsters downing down Barcelona to join them, this was no ordinary transfer window for Tottenham Hotspur.
The decision of Lucas Bergvall, a Swedish midfielder who turned 18 on Friday, to choose Spurs over long-term admirers and apparent frontrunners Barca, capped a very satisfying month or so. A month that also saw Radu Dragusin turn down another European superpower Bayern Munich to join Tottenham.
For a number of reasons, this felt like a significant window for Spurs.
First of all, they did their business early. In the previous 12 years, seven of their 11 winter-window signings for the first team had been on deadline day — or later, in the case of Ryan Nelsen (not including making Giovani Lo Celso’s loan permanent in late January 2020).
This time, Timo Werner and Dragusin were comfortably in place for Tottenham’s first league game of the new year, away to Manchester United on January 14. Spurs had fielded three winter-window signings across the previous 12 Januarys — Lewis Holtby in 2013, Gedson Fernandes in 2020 and Arnaut Danjuma in 2023. But here they were, fielding two in the same game — before the month was half over.
Ange Postecoglou was clear in private and in public that he wanted Spurs to do their business early, and he got his wish, suggesting a synergy between head coach and hierarchy that has been all too rare at the club in the previous few years. Signing a centre-back was the priority for Postecoglou and the club responded by fending off Bayern Munich to land Dragusin, one of the most highly-rated young defenders in Europe, for £25.8million ($32.9m) including add-ons.
Postecoglou also wanted another forward to slot into the team straight away. Technical director Johan Lange had worked hard with his team since his arrival in November to bring in someone who would fit the bill. They landed on Werner and signed him on loan from RB Leipzig with impressive efficiency. Postecoglou is very pleased with Werner, who has registered assists in both his first two league games. Postecoglou said on Tuesday how valuable it was to sign him and Dragusin swiftly, so they could hit the ground running rather than waste time late in January or even into February acclimatising.
On November 2, Postecoglou said: “If you can get your business done early in January, it is more helpful. Sometimes, you can miss that opportunity by waiting a whole month. That’s sometimes out of your control, so having him (Lange) in is good”.

GO DEEPER
How Spurs pipped Bayern to the signing of Radu Dragusin
Spurs spending so much on Dragusin made them comfortably the Premier League’s biggest spenders this window, even if we don’t include the roughly £8.5m plus add-ons they will part with for Bergvall in the coming days (he won’t officially join Tottenham until the summer). These deals and the fact that Tottenham were looking at other significant purchases this window — Antonio Nusa at Club Bruges, Chelsea’s Conor Gallagher and Jacob Ramsey at Aston Villa — saw them massively stand out in a window dominated by concerns around the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules (PSR).

Lucas Bergvall is set to join Spurs in the summer (Michael Campanella/Getty Images)
Spurs were an outlier, and there is a sense the club are belatedly benefitting from the self-sustaining model that has seen them resist the temptation to spend beyond their means.
According to Swiss Ramble, the football business blogger, Tottenham were the most profitable team in the Premier League across the 10 seasons from 2012-13 to 2021-22. They also spend a smaller proportion of their revenue on wages than anyone else in the league, with the figure at just 47 per cent for 2021-22.
It sets up an exciting summer, knowing that Spurs have held something back and should be able to press on and deliver the players Postecoglou wants while others are left worrying about PSR punishments. They were able as well this window to get some long-serving players with big salaries off the wage bill.
January also saw Spurs overtake Chelsea to become the eighth-richest club in the world — and the richest in London — in Deloitte’s Football Money League, with annual revenues of £549.2million. In the next month or so, they will publish their accounts from the 2022-23 season, which are expected to include record revenues and possibly see them become the leading club in the league when it comes to matchday revenue, even ahead of Manchester United.

---

Going into this year’s winter window, there was a sense of opportunity at Spurs. With many of their rivals struggling, there was a good chance of securing Champions League qualification by finishing in the top four (or possibly five) if they could make some high-quality mid-season additions.
And with a popular new head coach who had such a clear idea of the type of players he wanted, it wasn’t a window to hang about.
Spurs are trying to balance two objectives with their recruitment — continue to build the squad into one that can play Postecoglou’s style of football over the next few years, while also plugging gaps in the short term to secure a Champions League return.
Bergvall ticks the first box, Dragusin ticks both. Werner may end up ticking both, too, but he was signed primarily as a short-term fix to strengthen an area of the squad that has looked underpowered this season.
Postecoglou is aware that squad-building is a gradual process and saw this window as one step of many. “Nothing magical is going to happen in January,” he said after Spurs had been beaten 4-2 away by Brighton & Hove Albion at the end of December. “What we need to do is keep building — we’ve (only) had one window with this team to change it around.”

Dragusin has made two substitute appearances since signing from Genoa (Marc Atkins/Getty Images)
Spurs also wanted to sign a central midfielder and looked at Gallagher and Ramsey.
Previously, they would have been out of reach because Chelsea and Villa wouldn’t have considered selling to a direct rival. But in the new era of the Premier League’s PSR having some teeth, one or both of those clubs might have needed to make a big sale this window. In the end, Chelsea and Villa decided against doing so, but don’t rule out them selling an important player between the end of the season in May and June 30, which is the last day of football’s financial year. If they do, Tottenham will be in a good position to pounce.
And had Spurs succeeded in shifting Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg, they might have pushed harder for Gallagher or Ramsey. In the end, though, it was the same story as the summer, when several clubs were interested in Hojbjerg, but none were willing to spend what Tottenham were after.
This time, they wanted around £20million and weren’t interested in a loan, unless there was an obligation to buy. Ajax, Lyon and Juventus were among the clubs who made enquiries and there was interest from Saudi Arabia, but Hojbjerg was told if he went there he would not be part of Denmark’s European Championship squad this summer.

Has FFP killed the transfer window?​

Feb 1·The Athletic Football Podcast​

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35:45

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But while Gallagher and Ramsey were out of reach, Tottenham’s solid financial footing also allowed them to go after players for the future, and ultimately pull off the stunning signing of Bergvall.
It’s a purchase that will make Spurs the envy of most of Europe’s top clubs — just as they were when they signed 16-year-old Croatian defender Luka Vuskovic in September.
Nusa, Club Bruges’ 18-year-old Norwegian winger, was another youngster Spurs pursued this window, holding talks with the Belgian club about a possible €30million (£25.6m; $32.6m) move. Nusa was enthused about the idea but decided that Brentford, and the greater chance to play regular Premier League football on offer across London, would be better for his development — however, that move also fell through in the end.
Had Spurs landed Nusa, they would have immediately loaned him back to Club Bruges for the rest of the season, which would have made him a signing similar to Pape Sarr in 2021 and Destiny Udogie a year later. Both are now key first-team players for Tottenham, and the fees of £15.6million plus add-ons for Sarr and £15m plus add-ons for Udogie feel like a pittance.
Spurs hope Bergvall, who will spend the rest of the season with current club Djurgarden, will be another in this category.
On the outgoings front — an area they have struggled with in recent years — Spurs were able to secure promising loan moves for a few of their youth and fringe players.
Ashley Phillips and Alfie Devine both joined Championship side Plymouth Argyle, Alejo Veliz signed for Sevilla on deadline day, Japhet Tanganga has crossed London to Millwall, also of the domestic second tier, and Djed Spence went to Genoa as part of the Dragusin deal. Eric Dier and Ivan Perisic were also technically loaned out, though with their contracts expiring at the end of the season, they have played their last games for the club. Moving on senior players deemed surplus to requirements was another reason this window felt significant, with the captain for close to a decade Hugo Lloris also leaving the club.
It’s worth pointing out that the Tanganga and Spence moves came after returning from other loans in the first half of the season that didn’t work out — and they weren’t the only ones. Finding the right loan for a player is never an exact science, but the high number of returnees is something the club will surely look at going forward.
Some of the loans also reflect the recent struggles Spurs have experienced in selling players, though this is a Premier League-wide issue.

---

As for the process behind what Spurs have done in this window, there was a big contrast from the one last summer — Postecoglou’s first in charge.
Back then, with Fabio Paratici’s status downgraded following his FIFA ban and subsequent appeal, and Lange yet to arrive, there was no technical director or sporting director. Postecoglou had support from Paratici in his role as ad hoc consultant and chief scout Leonardo Gabbanini, but he had to be far more hands-on than he should have been. He has commented a few times on the strangeness of that arrangement, including on the summer window’s deadline day, September 1.
“It’s unusual,” Postecoglou said. “If you look at the way the club’s worked previously, (a sporting director has) always been in place. So that means it’s different, which I assume won’t be the case moving forward.”
Given that context, it’s even more impressive that Spurs had such a successful summer in the market, with James Maddison, Micky van de Ven and Guglielmo Vicario excelling since.

Vicario has shone this season after signing for Spurs in the summer (Catherine Ivill/Getty Images)
This time, with Lange officially starting on November 1 and bringing in chief scout Rob Mackenzie soon after, there has been much more of a process in place.
The feeling around the club has been much calmer compared to the previous few years, which, given some of the key protagonists during that period were the famously volatile Antonio Conte and a Paratici who was having to deal with the serious allegations being levelled at him, is perhaps not surprising. There was also more of a sense this time of everyone pulling in the same direction — another contrast to Conte’s “club signing” or equivalent claims of previous windows.
Postecoglou has the final say on transfers but liaises with Lange and his team. Lange employs a data-led approach and he led the pursuit of Werner, executing his signing with typical diligence and discretion. Lange was just as influential in the Bergvall signing, which reflects very well on his work and, not for the first time, Postecoglou’s powers of persuasion.
Before that Manchester United game last month, Postecoglou emphasised how much Lange has run the recruitment operation. He also namechecked chief football officer Scott Munn, who didn’t officially join Tottenham until after the summer window closed. And Postecoglou said this week: “It’s key that us three are aligned in what we want to do from a football perspective.” He said something very similar about how “aligned” they are earlier in the winter window. Alignment was conspicuous by its absence during the Conte-Paratici period.
As for Paratici’s role nowadays, he was more involved in the signing of Dragusin, whom he knew very well from the player’s mid-teens, when he signed him for Juventus. This week, Postecoglou described Paratici as “a smart guy” with “a great eye for talent” but added that, apart from exchanging calls or messages now and then, they don’t speak a great deal. Postecoglou said on Tuesday that having Lange in place this window has meant that “it has been a little bit different and I’ve been less involved than I was in summer”.
With Lange leading and Paratici liaising with him when required from the sidelines, Spurs’ transfer operation is functioning smoothly. It will be interesting to see how things shake out in the next few years.
Either way, Tottenham appear to have a structure in place that will allow them to kick on — especially given their wealth, as evidenced by those Deloitte numbers, and compliance with PSR.

---

So, was it a good window? One has to be wary of recency bias given the lateness of the Bergvall deal, but such an exciting signing, coupled with Werner and Dragusin seeming like smart buys certainly makes it feel like a very encouraging one. A few of the younger players will hopefully benefit from regular game time out on loan, too.

GO DEEPER
How and why Spurs moved so quickly for Timo Werner
Postecoglou said nothing magical was going to happen, but Bergvall’s decision was a spectacular moment, especially in the context of a window that for most teams was so drab. And the Spurs head coach expressed his satisfaction with Spurs’ winter window this week, before placing it in the wider context: “Every window, you measure it on whether we’re coming out stronger than we went into it — and we are (stronger).
“Compared to where we need to be in the next year or two, there is still a way to go. That’s why every window will be important. If we can improve the quality of the squad and develop our players, we’ll get to that point quicker. But there is still a long way to go.”
Postecoglou’s Spurs rebuild is in its infancy, but there’s a feeling that all his big decisions are making the team stronger.
This window felt like another example of that.
Additional reporting: Jack Pitt-Brooke
(Top photos: Getty Images)

 

[bubble07]

Stadium naming rights could bring in 30m a year

 

[neilp]

Very pleased with how we are building and running our club, particularly in this financial mess of all the others.

Does anyone know if the others are going to be in the same position come summer window, or will matters have reset for some/all of them?

 

[superted4]

Very pleased with how we are building and running our club, particularly in this financial mess of all the others.

Does anyone know if the others are going to be in the same position come summer window, or will matters have reset for some/all of them?

I think most are hoping for a swiss rambler update once the majority of clubs have released their latest statements.

 

[Shanks]

Stadium naming rights could bring in 30m a year

I read somewhere that the club weren't selling naming rights anymore, its worth more for our brand as rhe Tottenham stadium or something

 

[dovahkiin]

 

[For the love of Spurs]

In the summer Chelsea will get bids of £10m for Lukaku, £15m for Gallagher, £20m for Colwell, £5m for Broja. Everyone knows Chelsea have to do a full on fire sale come June and only players with FFP worth such as youth products are valuable. Unless the owner of a club is stupid nobody is bidding high or even at par value for their players. Then Chelsea will have to decide to sell massively under value or breach FFP badly.

 

[Japhet]

The key part in this (for my money) is how there are no extenuating circumstances like there were for Everton. Chelsea (Boehly) just blatantly went out and spent 1 billion that they can't possibly cover and that won't be taken lightly. It was giving FFP the middle finger and now the pigeons are coming home to roost. Also the fact that they can't expect to sell players for the money they want because there aren't buyers when everyone else tries to play by the rules.

 

[Coolpudge]

Very pleased with how we are building and running our club, particularly in this financial mess of all the others.

Does anyone know if the others are going to be in the same position come summer window, or will matters have reset for some/all of them?

I think a lot of clubs will be in similar positions in the summer. Depending on what happens to Nottingham Forest it could see the 30th June become like a mini deadline day for teams at risk of breaking the PSR.

 

[vegassd]

In the summer Chelsea will get bids of £10m for Lukaku, £15m for Gallagher, £20m for Colwell, £5m for Broja. Everyone knows Chelsea have to do a full on fire sale come June and only players with FFP worth such as youth products are valuable. Unless the owner of a club is stupid nobody is bidding high or even at par value for their players. Then Chelsea will have to decide to sell massively under value or breach FFP badly.

I don't full agree with the idea that all other clubs will be lowballing Chelsea. For example, if Ange really wants to sign Gallagher then I think it's fine for us to come up with our own valuation of him and still offer that. If we made a crazy low offer out of spite and ended up losing out on the player, that would hurt us more than it hurts Chelsea in my opinion.

The key part in this (for my money) is how there are no extenuating circumstances like there were for Everton. Chelsea (Boehly) just blatantly went out and spent 1 billion that they can't possibly cover and that won't be taken lightly. It was giving FFP the middle finger and now the pigeons are coming home to roost. Also the fact that they can't expect to sell players for the money they want because there aren't buyers when everyone else tries to play by the rules.

There will be a lot of legal scrutiny going into it. I think Everton are trying to make a case that they were forced to accept a lower offer for Richarlison than they wanted because of PSR, whilst Forrest are saying part of their breach was because they didn't sell Johnson early for low money and instead got more money out of us.

I'm not saying their either of those arguments hold water, but since they are both sides of the same coin I think Chelsea will be able to cut their cloth according to whatever verdict comes back on those decisions. Will it be better for them to sell players early at lower fees and then claim that's the cause of their breach, or do they hold out for big money and then claim that is the reason.

Hopefully they get absolutely stung - and not just for this season - but you can be pretty sure they will be fighting it all the way through the court rooms.

 

[razor1981]

Very pleased with how we are building and running our club, particularly in this financial mess of all the others.

Does anyone know if the others are going to be in the same position come summer window, or will matters have reset for some/all of them?

There's a meeting scheduled in the next couple of weeks for all 20 PL clubs to discuss changing from PSR to a 'squad cost ratio' measure of FFP (in line with what UEFA are moving to) from next season onwards.

This means that rather than being limited to a fixed amount of losses a club can make, the amount of money they spend on transfers & wages will be limited to a certain percentage of their annual turnover.

Clubs with huge wage bills and amortisation costs relative to their income (*cough* Chelsea *cough*) will still be in big trouble.

Our relatively small wage bill and amortisation costs will see us remain in a very strong position.

 

[neilp]

I think a lot of clubs will be in similar positions in the summer. Depending on what happens to Nottingham Forest it could see the 30th June become like a mini deadline day for teams at risk of breaking the PSR.

Yes this is what I was thinking

 

[Japhet]

I don't full agree with the idea that all other clubs will be lowballing Chelsea. For example, if Ange really wants to sign Gallagher then I think it's fine for us to come up with our own valuation of him and still offer that. If we made a crazy low offer out of spite and ended up losing out on the player, that would hurt us more than it hurts Chelsea in my opinion.


There will be a lot of legal scrutiny going into it. I think Everton are trying to make a case that they were forced to accept a lower offer for Richarlison than they wanted because of PSR, whilst Forrest are saying part of their breach was because they didn't sell Johnson early for low money and instead got more money out of us.

I'm not saying their either of those arguments hold water, but since they are both sides of the same coin I think Chelsea will be able to cut their cloth according to whatever verdict comes back on those decisions. Will it be better for them to sell players early at lower fees and then claim that's the cause of their breach, or do they hold out for big money and then claim that is the reason.

Hopefully they get absolutely stung - and not just for this season - but you can be pretty sure they will be fighting it all the way through the court rooms.

I don't think those arguments will hold much water when the time comes. Chelsea have paid through the nose for some proper dross too but I don't think anyone would accept that as an extenuating factor either. I think they'll get butchered in the summer personally with clubs well aware they have to sell at whatever price or face the consequences. I'd also add that they've had the 1.5 billion Abramovic 'lent' them written off and are still in the shit regardless. It's quite pathetic when you think about it.

 

[robotsonic]

The key part in this (for my money) is how there are no extenuating circumstances like there were for Everton. Chelsea (Boehly) just blatantly went out and spent 1 billion that they can't possibly cover and that won't be taken lightly. It was giving FFP the middle finger and now the pigeons are coming home to roost. Also the fact that they can't expect to sell players for the money they want because there aren't buyers when everyone else tries to play by the rules.

Even if they do sell the players to get out of the hole this season, I don't see how it can hold water for the subsequent ones either. The jerk-off session over how clever they were amortising the purchases over such a long period was grotesque, and is going to look pretty stupid very shortly if they have a fire-sale to cover themselves this year, while staring down the barrel of being 60-80m in the hole on amortisations per year, with no big stadium income, no CL, and no players left to sell.

I think they're going to be in for this every year for a few, and that's without accounting for signing absolutely anyone. It's going to take its toll, hopefully, on possibly every area of the club. They won't be able to commit any spending to buy prospects in and when that pipeline dries up, they are fucked.

 

[mmidgers]

If there's one club I want to see get fucked hard for this it's Chelsea.

 

[muppetman]

Part of the excitement (worldwide) of the PL is around the amount of money being spent and hence most of the best players want to be here. With that in mind (and the damp squib that was deadline day), I wonder if we will see some rule changes.