Will the return to Europa League action derail our push for 4th?

[Lilbaz]

We can afford to leave a few at home for this. It will give others a chance to prove themselves and give them game time.

If we can win it. It will give us a lot of good publicity and people will take notice. Will also give the players a great lift and taste.

 

[Syn_13]

Travelling to the Ukraine is surely a lot more tiring I would of thought. And for instance Arsenal are playing Bayern this Tuesday, they'll have a clear four days to recover...where we'll have two flying back from the Ukraine. That's a huge difference in terms of recover time.

I get what you're saying, but I'm talking about the whole tiredness excuse in the following weekend games. I'm talking hypothetically but what I'm trying to point out is that it's not always a difference case with Champions League teams. Sometimes in the CL you've got to play Shakhtar on a Wednesday followed by a game on Saturday. Makes no difference to us playing a team like Dnipro on Thursday followed by a game on Sunday. Well, apart from the CL team being a lot harder and therefore having a higher chance of being a more tiring match.

The only exception is, as you pointed out, playing on Tuesday and then Saturday as you'll get the extra day rest before the PL game. However, on the flipside it means you get one less day of rest after you previous game. And when your game is against the likes of Bayern I think I'd rather have 1 more day of rest/preperation time beforehand than after.

 

[Mr Pink]

I get what you're saying, but I'm talking about the whole tiredness excuse in the following weekend games. I'm talking hypothetically but what I'm trying to point out is that it's not always a difference case with Champions League teams. Sometimes in the CL you've got to play Shakhtar on a Wednesday followed by a game on Saturday. Makes no difference to us playing a team like Dnipro on Thursday followed by a game on Sunday. Well, apart from the CL team being a lot harder and therefore having a higher chance of being a more tiring match.

The only exception is, as you pointed out, playing on Tuesday and then Saturday as you'll get the extra day rest before the PL game. However, on the flipside it means you get one less day of rest after you previous game. And when your game is against the likes of Bayern I think I'd rather have 1 more day of rest/preperation time beforehand than after.

Not with you mate on your last point? If you had a Champions League tie on a Tuesday and then a PL game on a Saturday that would be four clear days rest...if you're talking about less days rest after the PL game it wouldn't matter unless you mean it would only be two days rest....which is the point I'm not really following?

What I'm saying is it wouldn't matter if you were getting one less days rest after the Saturday providing you're still getting a clear three days rest minimum.

Its just the two days rest which is the killer.....and that's all you ever get in the Europa League, where as the CL, in essence, is split between three and two thus rendering it less taxing in terms of a cumulative effect.

Even the sports science lot say the difference between two clear days and three is significant.

 

[Vulcan10]

Europa is only a hinderence if you let it be, unlike with a big cl match against a top side there is no need at all to take ade, dembelle, walker etc when we have the likes of soldado, Kane, Townsend, Chadli all crying out for games. These are internationals not kids & we still stand a great chance of going through. Manage the squad until the later stages & protect the key players.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand the why push for cl if we can't cope mindset. Regardless of the extra day you can get between games which i dont think matters that much personally (although the arsenal do have 5 days between playing munich & us), it's a fact that mid/lower table teams fully admit the best time to play the top sides is before or after cl games as it can affect their performance slightly - the simple difference is that with the CL it's worth it, especially in term of money & players you can keep/attract etc. So of course it's still worth pushing for cl, that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of the europa being a weaker competition and rest key players in early rounds and dodgy away trips. It's not about not coping it's about being smart & not letting one hinder your chances of qualifying for the other so you don't end up as perennial bridesmaids. If you go full tilt at it over god knows how many rounds & daft away trips to the middle of nowhere you risk loosing those few vital points that stop you dining at Europe's top table the following year. In my opinion the competition needs a serious revamp which would alleviate most of these discussions, but that's another matter.
Norwich for sure will be absolutely delighted if they see Ade etc starting or even travelling ahead of the weekends games, as will all our rivals for 4th.

Thankfully as an earlier poster said, with tim being more of an anti avb my money would be on him thinking along these lines as well. Especially after consultation with the chairman.

 

[nightgoat]

At the start of the season I would have agreed with you, however, with a change in management (to a manager with no previous experience) coupled with the form of our rivals, our injuries, the players we lost on loan, failure to get another LB and the fixtures around the time we would play Benfica (assuming they win) if we win.

Because of this, I would only want to play players that have returned from injury that need match practice before returning to the first team and squad players that need match practice but wont be in the first 11 for the weekends game. In fact, I would go as far as saying I wouldn't want any first 11 players or TS to go to the games, just stay at the training ground and prepare for the weekends games. Sir Les and Ramsey can take charge of the EL games.

Our fixtures would look like this, with each of our biggest games having EL games before and/or after:

Chelsea (a) - 08/03
EL round of 16 (Benfica?) - 13/03
Arsenal (h) - 16/03
EL round of 16 (Benfica?) - 20/03
Southampton - 23/03

then:
Liverpool (a) - 30/03
EL 1/4 Final - 03/04
Sunderland (h) - 06/04
EL 1/4 final - 10/04
Fulham (h) -

We'd only have one of our three biggest league games the weekend after any potential EL tie, though. Arsenal go to Bayern the same week we could potentially be playing Benfica at home. The benefit in confidence we could get if we went into that game having just beaten Benfica with Arsenal having lost to Bayern would be significant. Most of the later EL rounds coincide with our supposedly favourable run in.

We've got a big enough (and good enough) squad to be able to move players around and rest the likes of Adebayor, Paulinho, Eriksen etc whilst still fielding strong teams in the EL - just look at the Team for Dnipro thread.

Of course all the people suggesting we should just sack off the EL wouldn't be suggesting the same were we in the Champions League. Which strikes me as bizarrely twisted logic - go all in for a competition we'd have no chance of winning but completely give up on one in which we have a very good chance.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There is no doubt that not playing European games has helped Liverpool's league push, but the simple truth is, if you want to be a top 4 side then you have to acclimatise to coping with European and league football.

 

[beats1]

Whole reason we brought so many bloody fringe players was to play them in the cup competitions. IMO only one player should be playing both Europa and PL and thats Lloris!

 

[spurs9]

We'd only have one of our three biggest league games the weekend after any potential EL tie, though. Arsenal go to Bayern the same week we could potentially be playing Benfica at home. The benefit in confidence we could get if we went into that game having just beaten Benfica with Arsenal having lost to Bayern would be significant. Most of the later EL rounds coincide with our supposedly favourable run in.

We've got a big enough (and good enough) squad to be able to move players around and rest the likes of Adebayor, Paulinho, Eriksen etc whilst still fielding strong teams in the EL - just look at the Team for Dnipro thread.

Of course all the people suggesting we should just sack off the EL wouldn't be suggesting the same were we in the Champions League. Which strikes me as bizarrely twisted logic - go all in for a competition we'd have no chance of winning but completely give up on one in which we have a very good chance.

Arsenal have 4 days to recover/prepare for our game where as we have 2. People within sports science have said the difference between 2 and 3 days recovery time is massive. Plus, it is only a psychological advantage if we beat Benfica and Arsenal lose to Bayern. We could just as easily lose to Benfica and a worse Arsenal side beat Bayern in the 2nd leg last year.

For what it is worth, at the start of the season I too wanted to go hard out for the europa but our situation has changed.

 

[spurs9]

There is no doubt that not playing European games has helped Liverpool's league push, but the simple truth is, if you want to be a top 4 side then you have to acclimatise to coping with European and league football.

I agree but you also have to take the recovery period into account. CL you get either 3 or 4 days, EL is always only 2.

 

[Wolf_Autopsy]

Juve or Napoli are going to win the Europa league either way, definitely would prefer if timmy focused 99% of his efforts on the top 4 push.

 

[Skrong]

Does the winner of the Europa League qualify for CL?

 

[markieboy]

Does the winner of the Europa League qualify for CL?

Not this season.............it starts next year.

 

[Skrong]

Not this season.............it starts next year.

Damn it. Well I'm sure we can go far in it...It'd be nice to see how well we'd do against some decent European sides (Benfica, Juve, Napoli, Fiorentina, etc).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree but you also have to take the recovery period into account. CL you get either 3 or 4 days, EL is always only 2.

You can play Saturday after Wednesday(CL) can't you ?

 

[spurs9]

You can play Saturday after Wednesday(CL) can't you ?

Yes it does happen but it would be like 2-3 times as oppose to the 10 times we will have played with 2 days rest even if we get knocked out by Dnipro.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yes it does happen but it would be like 2-3 times as oppose to the 10 times we will have played with 2 days rest even if we get knocked out by Dnipro.

Hhmm..it's not ideal the Thursday/Sunday thing I know. Maybe the solution would be to alternate CL weeks and Europa weeks.

 

[camaj]

Yes it does happen but it would be like 2-3 times as oppose to the 10 times we will have played with 2 days rest even if we get knocked out by Dnipro.

AFAIK, the only time you have the option to move to Sunday is if you're playing in the Europa League on Thursday. Otherwise both clubs must agree and the other club would only agree if it meant they were on TV. Champions League clubs are more likely to have a game moved to Sunday because of TV anyway.

I checked Arsenal's fixtures for this season and they've played three games on a Saturday, following a Wednesday game, but only two on Sunday. Playing on a Tuesday isn't much better because you might only have one or two days rest beforehand.

 

[chinaman]

Being no longer involved in the two domestic cups, I think our squad can cope rather well.

 

[spurs9]

AFAIK, the only time you have the option to move to Sunday is if you're playing in the Europa League on Thursday. Otherwise both clubs must agree and the other club would only agree if it meant they were on TV. Champions League clubs are more likely to have a game moved to Sunday because of TV anyway.

Even if we were unlucky and never got on TV and the opposition never agreed to it, we would play half of the games on a Tuesday and there are 2 weeks between legs after the group stage as oppose to 1 week of the Europa. Also EL has 2 extra games than the CL.

 

[spurs9]

Hhmm..it's not ideal the Thursday/Sunday thing I know. Maybe the solution would be to alternate CL weeks and Europa weeks.

The problem is UEFA are all about TV money and I don't think there are enough weeks (with International breaks and domestic cups) to have them on different weeks all the time.