would you trade places with City?

[AngerManagement]

Watching Man City, they are riding high.... an array of fantastic world class players at their disposal, top of the league and breaking records for goal scoring after 8 games.

They look like they will be in the title race for years to come and will probably win the title sooner rather than later, this will of course also mean them playing year in year out in the CL.

Much like Chelsea before them who's Billionaire take over bought them League and Cup success, ever present CL entry and of course a CL final which they lost only by the width of a post in a shoot out.

Would you as a loyal Spurs fan swap our current position for Man City's?

Would the success be all that matters to you? or would you have some moral objection to acquiring success in such fashion and prefer to battle on as we do (still spending large amounts of money) and probably never win the title and at best challenge for the CL places and maybe a cup success.

I know this debate has been had a few times before, but I felt as if I wanted to gauge opinion by numbers with a poll to get some idea of the percentage of Spurs fans who would want success for the club regardless of how it was attained and those who would resent success being bought by rich investors.

(I know this poll will only represent the internet fans of this forum and may not accurately reflect the thinking of fans in general....much like the move to Stratford poll, but still I am interesting to see popular opinion and when we have these debates it usually only airs the opinions of the more vocal posters and we do not see numbers for mass opinion)

Personally I wouldn't care, I have been a Spurs fan since the late 80's and in this time I have only seen us lift 3 cups and the last two seasons have been by far and away the most successful I have seen....and I WANT MORE.

I feel as though I have put my shift in of supporting a club which under performs and under achieves while my friends support Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U and watch their club (most of whom don't even go to games like I do) lift silverwear year in year out and I would happily swap places with Man City and have more days like my trip to Wembley when we beat Chelsea in the Carling cup.

I want to see Spurs win the league before I die, I want to see Spurs playing against Europe's finest like we did last season year in year out and if I was given the choice of sticking as we are and hoping to build ourselves up against the odds or trading places with City and having been taken over by their owners and bought potential success when they were I would happily make the exchange. (would have loved to have swapped our last 7-8 years with Chelsea's double winning Russian oil money years)

 

[spurs mental]

No, I want to see us win titles, but I don't want to do it the way City are doing it. They disgust me as a club just buying for fun and paying extortionate wages. Their fans disgust me, they go on like they have a God given right to win things, to be in the CL. I don't want us to be like that.

 

[mattyspurs]

I understand what you are saying AM, and yes, I want everything that Man City hve, but not at the expense of my morals.

I didn't like it when Chelsea did it, and i sure as hell don't like it now City are doing it. To me it's not football, well not football as I know it. When they bought Kun Aguero, they did the whole deal in a matter of days. From start to finish with the club and personal terms with the player, and this isn't some journeyman we are talking about here, it is one of the best footballers in world football. There should at least be some negotiations involved.

Nope, I want us to win things, but I want us to win things the way we are doing it. we are building smething nice here, yes it has taken a while, but it is going along nicely. With another striker, somone for the right of midfield and another CB, we could well be vying for the title next year, and I would love it to be done in the right way.

 

[Azazello]

Personally, I'd hate for our club to be turned into a vanity project for some Johnny-come-lately billionaire.

Citeh will kill the EPL as a meaningful competition (to the extent it is already).

 

[Mr Pink]

Absolutely not, I'll never respect an approach like that which is ultimately buying success in the most grotesque fashion...in short its just cheating.

I think we have been moving in the right direction for some time now and Levy deserves enormous credit for running the Club very astutely.

Success just tastes a million times sweeter earning it the right way.

If we finish in the top 4 this season are progress will continue.

Sorry but integrity matters to me.

 

[Dougal]

No way. I'm not letting them sleep with my wife.

 

[AngerManagement]

but if the League is going to be killed as a competitive entity anyway and only the few super rich clubs will be able to compete....wouldn't it be better to be one of the competing clubs than an also run sent back to the mid table obscurity we have all endured since the early 90's to the late 2000's?

I resented Chelsea, I resent to an extent Man City (mostly because of the player wages situation) but I am at a stage where I just want to see Spurs winning things, playing against the best teams and this is the way football is evolving ( I am also sure clubs not involved in the so called BIG 5 looked at us in a similar light when we engineered a changing of football with the break away from the football league all those years ago)

I don't think the Fair Play rules will stop the likes of Chelsea, Man city or Man U and I am sure the future of football for as long as it holds the attention of the globe will be that of money buying success and personally I would honestly rather have it and succeed than not and hold the moral high ground with an empty trophy cabinet like Arsenal.

 

[MattyP]

I wouldn't want to swap places with Man City - it can be difficult enough to get up to WHL, let alone having to get all the way up to Manchester to watch games.

 

[Blake Griffin]

nah, i'm not ashamed to say i jumped around the living room screaming like a girl when rafa and jermain scored yesterday, i couldn't see myself having the same passion for it if we became an artificial club like city, i don't even think of them as a football club anymore, if they win the league then it means nothing to me.

 

[Spurger King]

In a way it reminds me of the situation in F1, and Williams in particular.

Back in the 80s and early 90s they were one of the very best teams...with the best drivers and the most up-to-date cars. Since then they've struggled to secure the big money sponsorship to compete at the top, but have managed to keep afloat.

The Williams team routinely gets a lot of praise for being a well run F1 team (the word 'honest' gets thrown about quite a bit). Every now and then they nurture a talented driver who helps them to punch above their weight, before joining a more successful team.

Instead of being one of the major players they are now essentially well-run also-rans, making up the chasing pack, with no real possibility of seriously competing.

If it's a straight choice between Spurs being respected also-rans that are there simply to make up the numbers (and maybe get into the occasional Carling Cup final), or being at the front competing for the major honours...I know which one I'd go for.

At the end of the day I'll support Spurs through thick and thin, but I'm not going to say I'd be upset if we were able to challenge for the title and compete for the best players...because that's simply never going to happen with the current set-up and wage structure...regardless of how well the club is run.

 

[AngerManagement]

Say for Arguments sake City's next 5 years brought them similar success to that Chelsea have seen since Oil money bought it for them and we were to continue to progress at our slow pace and in the next five years maybe qualify for the CL twice and even win a cup once.

Would you still rather stick to our moral highground and have 2 runs in the CL and a cup win or would you prefer the bought success that saw us play every year in the Champions league, win two league titles one of which being a double (obviously there is no guarantee City will win these thiings or that we can't do better, so just for the hypothetical sake)

 

[kaz Hirai]

its not ideal but to be honest realistically we will never be anymore than 4th at best, might have one off wacky years were he hit 3rd but when teams like chelsea and city just have the finacial muscle to buy success there isnt much you can do, no matter how big the stadium is, just ask arsenal fans

so i voted yes, i would have spurs run by some oil criminals

 

[kishman]

Man City epitomize everything that's wrong with football.

 

[AngerManagement]

nah, i'm not ashamed to say i jumped around the living room screaming like a girl when rafa and jermain scored yesterday, i couldn't see myself having the same passion for it if we became an artificial club like city, i don't even think of them as a football club anymore, if they win the league then it means nothing to me.

While it may mean nothing to you, and you can dismiss their success because of the way they obtained it.

Do you think it will mean nothing to their fans? do you think the fans who followed them all the way down to the third tier of Engish football and back up will agree that they success means nothing or that they are not a real football club?

I have to say I disagree and I suspect if we were in their position you would still consider us a real football club, indeed YOUR football club and I personally think you would enjoy the success no less.

But I don't know you or how you think (same goes for all poster who disagree with me) so I am only really reflecting on my own opinions and assumptions.

I do however think that the bulk of Spurs fans (even those voting against this currently) would have a different opinion if the scenario were actually real.

To me it would still be my club winning things, to me I would feel we as fans deserve the success regardless for having to watch us win nothing for so many years while our rivals clean up....and personally I think the modern era of football has been all about money for some time, its just been on a larger scale in since Man City came in to the game.

Ever since the PL era only Man U have been successful long term, fair play (and as much as I hate to say this) Arsenal and Wenger competed well with them without paying massively disproportionate amounts of money but other than that Blackburn had to buy success which they couldn't sustain, as did Chelsea and now Man City.

I don't think football has been a level playing field for many years, and City rather than changing the game are only taking things to a further extent.

Ever since Chelsea were taken over and bought success the English game has been all about money and that is why Wenger has been unable to compete since Chelsea first one the league (Man U fired back with big spending and Arsenal who stuck to their ethics were left behind)

 

[AngerManagement]

In a way it reminds me of the situation in F1, and Williams in particular.

Back in the 80s and early 90s they were one of the very best teams...with the best drivers and the most up-to-date cars. Since then they've struggled to secure the big money sponsorship to compete at the top, but have managed to keep afloat.

The Williams team routinely gets a lot of praise for being a well run F1 team (the word 'honest' gets thrown about quite a bit). Every now and then they nurture a talented driver who helps them to punch above their weight, before joining a more successful team.

Instead of being one of the major players they are now essentially well-run also-rans, making up the chasing pack, with no real possibility of seriously competing.

If it's a straight choice between Spurs being respected also-rans that are there simply to make up the numbers (and maybe get into the occasional Carling Cup final), or being at the front competing for the major honours...I know which one I'd go for.

At the end of the day I'll support Spurs through thick and thin, but I'm not going to say I'd be upset if we were able to challenge for the title and compete for the best players...because that's simply never going to happen with the current set-up and wage structure...regardless of how well the club is run.

Excellent post, great analogy and you express my way of thinking on this subject far better than I have been able to articulate.

Agree or disagree with this post, I think it sums up the argument for why some of us would trade situations with Man City perfectly.

Success or moral high ground, which is more important to you I suppose.

 

[ExpatFan]

"Here's a billion bucks, go buy, sorry win, the EPL title."
"Oh, you came 5th. Oh well, here's another billion."
"Oh, you came 4th. Oh well, here's another billion."
"Oh, second this time. Never mind, here's another billion."
"Oh, you've won the title. What a fantastic achievement to have won fuck all for three decades and now be champions. Truly deserved. And it's only cost my country a few billion. We earn that from our oil money in about a fortnight."
"Now for the CL. Here's another billion..."
And so on, and so on.
All said with a foreign accent.
No thank you, never.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

The thing is, Blackburn proved that any club with money can win the title. If you have the best players, eventually you will win the league. And it's the same with City, not only do they have some of the best players in world football in their first 11, they even have some of the best players in world football that they can happily keep on the bench or not even in their 18.

If every top 5 club had billionaire owners then for sure I'd want Spurs to have one too. Despite the fact that player wages would be at an astronomical level at least things would be more a level playing field. At the moment we have 2 of the top 6 clubs more or less unlimited funds, albeit Chelsea have slowed down lately. Utd already pay wages 2-3 times the amount we do, if Liverpool and Arsenal get bought at some point buy some rich guy then that would just leave us far behind still scrimping to pay our top players £80k a week.

I must admit that I voted "No" but if all the other top teams are going to go that way then we'll have to face being mid-table again or will need to start looking for a sugar-daddy.

If they're not already then it won't be too long before qpr are paying better wages than us.

It's a sad state of affairs that football is in but not a lot that any of us can do about it.

 

[StartingPrice]

Interest Yankee Yid blogging on Yahoo ATM.
Said yesterday that we are getting a lot of attention amongst Yanks as a team who has done things the right way, not bought success, and plucky underdogs.
Very laudible.

The problem for me reamins, simply, if the governing bodies make regulations and enforce them to arrest this Sugar-Daddy cancer within the game, them I am happy for us to soldier on. Otherwise, every club should just 'ho themselves to the richest bidder and put things on more of an even keel. Hell, if that means that the richest man/woman in the World comes from Bognor Regis, so they become the most successful club in English football history, it is just tough titties on a game that seems more intent on selling its soul season on season.

 

[tobi]

No I wouldn't swap places.

We are close and can achieve what we want if everyone is on the same wavelength and have the new stadium confirmed.

Some consistency, better coaching and a change of mentality would help too.

 

[AngerManagement]

No I wouldn't swap places.

We are close and can achieve what we want if everyone is on the same wavelength and have the new stadium confirmed.

Some consistency, better coaching and a change of mentality would help too.

Do you really think all we need is some better coaching and we will suddenly be able to challenge for the title every year and play CL football year in year out?

Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd can blow us out the water in the transfer market whenever they feel to or need to.

Liverpool have already shown greater spending power than us and have beaten us in head to head battles to sign players. they made up all the ground they lost on us in one transfer window and now we are head to head with them challenging for fourth (in coming years they will continue to out spend us, pay higher wages and attract players we cannot also)

Arsenal are the exception, although their wage cap is higher than ours as is their spending power with a vastly bigger income to ours, its just Wenger refuses to spend (but how long before either Wenger leaves and a new man decides to splash the cash or Arsenal's lack of title contention finally pushes them into transfer market action?)

We were neck and neck with Chelsea last season until they blew us away with a transfer window which they outspent us and kicked on while we struggled over the line with what we had.

I personally think some people have an unrealistic and over romantic very of football and how it SHOULD be done, its not the real world anymore. You say we are CLOSE to achieving our goals....but how close is close? when was the last time we were in a title race or even looked like being in one?

In my opinion where we are is about as high as we can go without billionaire investment, at the top of the glass ceiling, we can see the title race but we can't join it long term because we can't compete with the spending power of the bigger (maybe wrong choice of words) clubs.

This summers window was interesting, and somewhat encouraging as for the first time we fought of interest from a bigger fish in one of our star players. How long can we continue to do this though? how long before the big clubs want more of our players? how long before these players refuse to extend or sign longer term contracts if we continue to show the best we can achieve is a race for fourth place?

If Modric had gotten his move he would instantly have been in a title race this year and playing CL football this season and no doubt next, not to mention he would be earning double maybe treble what he does now.

It started years ago, with Sol Campbell, we couldn't match his ambition on the pitch and couldn't offer the same wages he could get else where. Does anyone really think we would have been able to keep Ledley had he not been so plagued with injury and had the biggest clubs in Europe offering to treble his wages and deliver him top footballing honours?

Ok we have a new stadium in our plans, how much will this cost us? how much will it negatively effect our spending power in the transfer market? and how long before we reap the benefits of the extra income it could provide and enable us to compete with the richer clubs?

My personal opinion is that this is the current state of football, what happens if more of the top teams begin to get this type of investment? what if 2 more clubs play the game City have been playing? and we have 5-6 teams we simply cannot compete with? would you still be happy with being a nicely run team who goes back to at best competing for a Europa cup spot and a Carling cup win every year? or would you then want a piece of the pie and see the same type of investment City have?

I hope some how the fair play rules level the playing field for everyone, I don't see it happening though and I believe City have already illustrated the type of loop holes such clubs can and will exploit.

Without Billionaire investment I firmly believe we will never win the league for as long as the game stays in its current state, at best we will challenge for CL spots and even that may slip out of our grasp in the coming years if current trends continue. I also think that if and when we start to show we are becoming less competitive we would find it harder and harder not only to attract the type of players we need but also to hold on to our best players.

I hope you are right, I hope all we need is more constancy and "better coaching" to turn our current crop into title contenders, I hope I am simply being over pessimistic with my outlook of the future and the glass ceiling that separates us from City/Utd/Chelsea.

Regardless though, to me personally....a title win would be just as sweet if we won because of money as it would if we won with a group of home grown players (that type of thing doesn't really mean a great deal to me anyway....we all saw how much being home grown meant to Sol Campbell for example) So that explains why I would happily switch with Man City and be competing for the top honours in the here and now rather than stick with "doing things the right way" and hope to some day become competitive on the level they are already.