Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

Kalim said:

Unless he is better than anyone we've got. If the club deem him better then it improves us, just because we have decent youngters in certain positions it doesn't mean there aren't better out there.
If we had a chance to get Wilshere in even though we've got Carroll, it would be pretty blinkered to say "no thanks" mate we've got Carroll.
I confess to being one of he many that want ed to see Carroll in instead of TheHud at the end of last season.

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I do agree as earlier in the post I did say I've nothing against us signing exceptional talents, and as I've only ever seen Can come on as sub tonight I'm probably being a bit unfair on him without watching more of him

beats1 said:

It doesnt matter if the players are good enough, if the manager doesnt feel the confidence to play them, then they could be potential world beaters and it wouldnt matter. AVB said the players have to prove themselves on loan if they want to be a part of his plans. Rumours are than Tim has been saying the younger players more which have been rebuffed by the manager. Personally I dont agree with this ethos as people at young age can improve insanely within a small period of time for example, with that ethos players like

Verratti - played for a second division team in Italy Pescara and then wouldnt be good enough for our team yet last season he was one of PSG's best players against Barca

Townsend - AVB prefers Dempsey and Sig to play out of position rather than give Townsend a chance yet he goes on loan and was QPR's player of the season, also worth noting had alot of successful championship loans and 100 games in league appearances, so hardly a youth player

Falque - Again hardly gets a look then goes on loan and gets called the one of the best player in the segunda and the best dribblers in that league, will be a la liga player if he doesnt come back

I honestly have no idea why we are linked with Mcmanaman and co. when we have 3 wingers. I dont think AVB is a manager that trust unproven youth unlike other managers like Ancelotti. Looking his record at Porto most of his squad was all 23 or over that he trusted, the only young person to be a fixture was Maicon at the age of 21. Even Rodriguez only started 15 matches out of 53 or so.

Same thing happened at Chelsea except Sturridge who was 21 played alot and strangely Romeu got like 24 appearances despite being only playing 18 in Segunda the season before and not seen since. Also the season before McEachran appeared in 17 games and only 5 under AVB, as well as Piazon who this season is playing for Malaga in la liga wasnt seen once last season despite Chelsea fans saying he was one of the best players for the reserves.

So if anything AVB prefers established players instead of promoting within and doesnt tend to play players under 23 unless they have been signed for the first team.

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Tbf prior to us, the maximum AVB had ever spent at a club was one season and not even that at Chelsea. How many youth players can you bring through.

Porto, I understand he inherited a pretty decent squad first season and at the start you'd play your experienced players, then they went on a run to be unbeaten (was it) and a treble so he is probably not going to want to disturb the team/squad.

Chelsea look at how much pressure he was under from the start, even successful managers there get sacked, and he was given instructions to bring average age down. He was doing that, as you say Romeu, Sturridge Bertrand all played then he had all of the older players on his back and got sacked for it.

He comes here, and is under even more pressure than at his previous job with plenty of journalists and even his own fans expecting him to fail. He's also following the controversial sacking (general public view not mine) of one of the media's favourite managers. Furthermore he has a new style that he wants to implement and a severely disrupted squad (7 new players in over the season including 3 major losses) that he has to gel together. Plus he has learnt from his mistakes at Chelsea and does not want or need to chuck in the youngsters early.

He hasn't had a chance in his individual seasons to really bring young players through. Next season is different however, and his policy of them proving themselves on loan isn't a bad one. Of course I can't predict what will happen but he has said on different occasions that he expects Rose and Townsend to be in his squad next year, which is a fair method. He also gave chances to Caulker and Carroll. At the start of the season Caulker was one of our main CBs and I remember two identical mistakes he made which directly lead to goals. Both involved trying to clear a ball when Lloris called to leave them and as a result he was rightly dropped to learn from his mistakes. Carroll also got decent game time and I would say AVBs only main criticism regarding bringing youth through was that he should perhaps have played Carroll instead of Thudd near the end of the season. He even gave Livermore games and got stick for it and let's not forget he has let various young players train with the first team over the season and during matchdays.

I expect next season with Rose,Townsend,Caulker,Carroll (if he doesn't go on loan) and Livermore (if he is not sold) we will see more of our youth players get good game time.

With regards to the signings. Well we all know what we need, well this is what I think we need, as a matter of priority - a Striker and a Winger/Striker

Our strikers would look something like : Ade, Damiao/Villa/Soldado, Defoe/Dempsey, with one of the younger ones getting game time if needed unless loaned out. If we don't get Damiao/Villa we will have fallback option

Our wingers would be Bale, Lennon, Townsend and new Winger/Striker. Options from transfer rumours are Villa, Son, PEA, Bernard and if none of those come off we will have a fall back option in Mcmanaman. As much as I don't want us to buy McManaman I don't think signing him would be a snub to our youth system. Like if we got one of our main options, I don't think he'd be brought in to replace Townsend as Townsend has proven himself now on loan, but so that we have 4 options for 2 winger spots. As much as I'd like a winger that is an improvement on our 2nd best winger (Lennon) if we didn't get that, getting MacManaman who has PL experience and is probably on Townsend's level is still better than leaving us arguably short with players from our academy as you know he could defninitely come in now and do a job. But if im honest I don't think we'll sign him and if we do no more than 3/4m.

I would be gutted if we brought in a young CM with potential like Jordie Clasie and I guess Eriksen as we have Carroll and Holtby. For me, as Moutinho has now gone Monaco we should not tamper with that position as we will stall their development unnecessarily. CM options of Dembele, Sandro, Sig, Holtby, Carroll with our winger and strikers options should allow them to develop nicely and still score plenty of goals. I wouldn't be averse to getting a new DM if we sell all of Parker, Livermore and Thudd which could be why we are linked to Emre Can. Maybe Luongo could get some game time as backup next year.

And Rose will defintely provide decent competition at LB.

I think basically what I'm getting at is that I don't think we can really judge AVBs ability to bring young players through as he hasn't really had the time to.When he did try it (Chelsea), it didnt work out for him, whereas when he stuck to established players (Porto) he broke records, so I think there's enough to justify him not playing too many youth players this season. his is more likely to be the reason as opposed to not rating them. Additionally I think this is exactly why having someone like Baldinini (if he comes) will be good for the club. He has been known to promote youth and give them a chance, and he will provide a link between AVB (who deals with the first team) and Sherwood (who knows the youth setup) so that we can help set up good loans and have a trusted person AVB can turn to, when deciding what young players to try out. So when you say that 'some young players can develop insanely quickly' which I agree with, knowing which player that will be is a gamble and exactly what I thnik Baldini should be helping AVB with. Giving a chance to those young players he think can make the grade.

If Rose, Caulker, Townsend, Caroll don't get many chances next season I think we can then really be critical of AVB in not playing the youth. I would also be a bit disappointed if he didn't give some chances in the COC or Europa to Luongo, Ceballos, Pritchard and Falque assuming they are either not sold or loaned out

Carroll certainly didn't get decent game time(in the league anyway). 7 sub apps and pretty much every one of those when we were in the shit. It seems he was trusted to try to turn a game but not so much that he could play a part so the game didn't need it.

al_pacino said:

Carroll certainly didn't get decent game time(in the league anyway). 7 sub apps and pretty much every one of those when we were in the shit. It seems he was trusted to try to turn a game but not so much that he could play a part so the game didn't need it.

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I agree.

Whilst I buy into the reasons that IG has put forward, they are not valid next season.

I'd like to see AVB having a policy of including 2 of the youth (including perhaps one place for a Townsend/Rose/Falque/Carroll/Smith ie experienced youth and one place for an inexperienced youth such as a Luongo/Ceballos/Kane or whoever AVB fancies) in most game squads - ie 16 first team squad players plus 2 youths. That way AVB can judge when to bring younger players into the game. Probably the onlly games not to apply that rule would be PL games against the 'top 4 teams' and maybe post group stage EL games. For games against non-PL opposition in domestic cups I'd suggest having 4 or 5 youngsters in the match day squad.

For those concerned about first team squad players not getting into the match day squad - there are 16 places available so anyone not making it should be asking themselves questions.

If we did something like this, I think we could test out and give experience to some of our youth, without taking undue risks.

I really hope we see more of Carroll next season!

We'llWinThePrem said:

I really hope we see more of Carroll next season!

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I think he will be out on loan

beats1 said:

I think he will be out on loan

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Hopefully somewhere where he'll get alot of playing time.

Would love to see him playing most weeks in the Prem.

http://lesrosbifs.org/ryan-mason-tottenham-hotspur-and-his-non-start-in-lorient/

Good articke on Ryan Mason by Windy, although doesn't guess what happens next season !

Under 20s Sunday get to hopefully watch Kane and pritchard

Riga Cup ‏@Riga_Cup
I am glad to report, Tottenham H teams in age group U14 and U15 are confirmed their participation in Winter Riga... http://fb.me/2rKW1qZ1C

Good to hear that the next generation are getting experience of playing international tournaments to meet other teams who are likely to play different tactics and formations.

BTW, Windy's article on Ryan Mason (see a couple of posts above) has attracted a large readership, so lots of Spurs fans in and outside of this thread interested in Spurs youth !

mason is never gonna make it with us

Is Carroll with the England U20's?

No his too old

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
Watching Harry Kane for the England U20s vs Iraq - Alex Pritchard on the bench. 0-0 after 38, cagey so far.

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
Fantastic run and shot from Kane, good save from the Iraq captain in goal.

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
1-0 from resulting corner, captain Conor Coady heads home at the back post after a Kane flick-on!

Ray Lo ‏@RayLo18
Kane had a hand in England's U-20 opening goal against Iraq. England are playing as bad as the U-21 side.

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
2-0, superb counter attack from England after a superb double save from Johnstone! Williams taps in Kane's brilliantly precise low cross.

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
Second assist of the game, of course, for #Spurs striker Harry Kane, who has mostly been isolated. That was a real moment of quality though.

2-1 - Iraq penalty brings them back into it after a foul from goalkeeper Johnstone. Kane then forces a save at the other end.

The FA ‏@FA
Harry Kane forces Hameed into another save after being played through by Barkley. Still 2-1.

Chris Miller ‏@WindyCOYS
2-2 in stoppage time - two goal lead let slip. Fantastic weaving run and firm finish.

The FA ‏@FA
FT: #EnglandU20s 2-2 Iraq. The Three Lions will be very disappointed with that.

Spurs idol on what u saw do u think Pritchard is good enough? I think we need a clever player from epwhat I saw.

newbie said:

Spurs idol on what u saw do u think Pritchard is good enough? I think we need a clever player from epwhat I saw.

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Don't think Pritchard got on the pitch tonight. He demonstrated last season that he could physically cope with Championship and looked good in only a couple of games due to injury - so this coming season will be interesting to see if he can continue to impress. ATM its too early to be sure if Pritchard will make it or not, but signs are promising.

Kane had a decent game tonight according to most pundits with 2 assists and a couple of chances, but maybe not involved enough. Certainly one of England's better performers tonight.

Yes, agreed he did ok shame he does not have pace though ;(

newbie said:

Spurs idol on what u saw do u think Pritchard is good enough? I think we need a clever player from epwhat I saw.

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Nowhere near good enough based on his performance against Iraq. He was completely anonymous - not sure he touched the ball all game. Totally immobile as well.

We'llWinThePrem said:

He didn't play against Iraq???

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