The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

VegasII · Sep 2, 2014

nedley said:
Did we ever find out from JJ and others who the other forward player was? (Welbeck obviously being one)

No, but I wondered if it might have been Negredo on loan.

spurslenny · Sep 2, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
Sorry to be pedantic but fourth to sixth is not one spot, and the decline has been bloody evident by the fact that our Chairman has fired three managers in that time.

Your pedantry is excused.

But you know what I meant (y)

Locotoro · Sep 2, 2014

SpursDave88 said:
Bollocks, sorry. Toure did start for Liverpool last year, and if Agger is so good why has he gone back to Bromby? Both Kos and Mert are far superior players to Liverpool's CBs, ably demonstrating that just because one player plays for a team that finished higher, that doesn't make him better.

I say that MM must be better, because in trusting Poch's judgement, he obviously felt we were better off spending 20m on MM than 8m on FF. Hence we bid for MM....if they were of roughly equal ability, we would never have bid for MM in the first place, we would have just signed Fazio...surely

I agree with the first part.

But I dont think that the two signings of FF and MM were alternatives. They are too dissimilar in style for one to be a fall back option.

Whilst they are both able to play from the back, one is very much a physical, no nonsense towering defender and the other is far more the sweeper type. It would be like comparing Puyol to Pique.

Ossie85 · Sep 2, 2014

Franchise60 said:
You are blaming the coach for our transfer window without anything even semi concrete to base it on. It's funny how its the "head coach's" fault on sept 1st but all summer it's the vaunted committee getting praise for dealings.

So you're blaming Poch for not having backup plans to Schneiderlin when we signed a cheaper version of Schneiderlin? That makes zero sense. And no, nothing makes less sense than blaming Poch for our dealings this summer. Nothing. At. All. Especially considering many of what people consider failings this summer are carbon copies of previous Poch-less windows.

I'm fine with blaming no one, everyone, being happy, whatever anyones opinions are. But if you single out the manager as the problem with this summer then you are either from a different planet or have an agenda.

Yeah, I might have an agenda. I've been busting balls for us to sign Pochettino since we were first linked, but I don't agree with something he did, so I surely must have an agenda against him. Some of you have a bizzare way of accepting everything a manager does like if he were perfect. He can have mistakes, and one can express differences with how he procedes without meaning to be against him.

The new french guy is a DM. Scheniderlin was supposedly coming to be the CM that dictates our play. Stambouli is not a cheaper version, he's a different player, just as Fazio is a different player from Musacchio.
I cannot blame Levy for not wanting to pay 27m for Schneiderlin or 20m for a crocked soon to be out of contract J Rod. The same way I cannot blame Levy for not spending 30m on Moutinho before.
I repeat, I'm solely basing myself on Trix ITK. He said Pochettino insisted on those two regardless of other incomings. So, yes, I blame Pochettino for being stubborn, because he might have accepted Stambouli and Welbeck, but he nonetheless wanted the soton pair. We didn't get Welbeck or another LW like Remy or Depay because Pochettino would've still wanted J Rod, now or in January. That's being stubborn. Levy was not going to spend +15m on Welbeck if Pochettino would still want us to spend another 15m for J Rod.

Locotoro · Sep 2, 2014

WexfordTownSpur said:
"who I believe will turn out to be just as good if not better" If this were the case why didn't we go after him in the first place, what are our scouts, Manager and Baldini playing at bidding for MS - I think probably because they know something you don't.

And I am glad we filled those "massive gaps at the back" as shown against Liverpool last week. All working to plan.

The difference between Schneiderlin and Stambouli is that Poch knows Schneiderlin, has worked with him and is far less of a gamble than bringing in a player who may or may not adapt to the country, league, language and will at best require some time to get used to things here.

It is my opinion, only my opinion mind, that Stambouli is the same level, ability wise, as Schneiderlin. Both have the right mental attitudes required but Stambouli has the added bonus of having won the French Championship and played Champions League despite being a year younger.

Franchise60 · Sep 2, 2014

Ossie85 said:
Yeah, I might have an agenda. I've been busting balls for us to sign Pochettino since we were first linked, but I don't agree with something he did, so I surely must have an agenda against him. Some of you have a bizzare way of accepting everything a manager does like if he were perfect. He can have mistakes, and one can express differences with how he procedes without meaning to be against him.

The new french guy is a DM. Scheniderlin was supposedly coming to be the CM that dictates our play. Stambouli is not a cheaper version, he's a different player, just as Fazio is a different player from Musacchio.
I cannot blame Levy for not wanting to pay 27m for Schneiderlin or 20m for a crocked soon to be out of contract J Rod. The same way I cannot blame Levy for not spending 30m on Moutinho before.
I repeat, I'm solely basing myself on Trix ITK. He said Pochettino insisted on those two regardless of other incomings. So, yes, I blame Pochettino for being stubborn, because he might have accepted Stambouli and Welbeck, but he nonetheless wanted the soton pair. We didn't get Welbeck or another LW like Remy or Depay because Pochettino would've still wanted J Rod, now or in January. That's being stubborn. Levy was not going to spend +15m on Welbeck if Pochettino would still want us to spend another 15m for J Rod.

Maybe the issue was with waiting until Southampton to sell all of their other players before going in for Schneiderlin and Rodriquez ,ever think of that?

Stambouli is a similar player to Schneiderlin, read a scouting report. He brings similar quick passing from the DM position that Schneiderlin was valued for. So again, your blaming Poch for being stubborn and only wanting Schneiderlin when he did in fact buy a cheaper version of Schneiderlin. As for LW, we tried for Welbeck and failed, is that Poch's fault? We were interested in Depay and you have literally zero evidence, not even the faintest of rumors, that Poch was in anyway to blame for us not getting Depay. So basically, its Poch's fault we missed backup LW targets now too? Sorry but it doesn't add up.

Truth is you have very little evidence to blame Poch for anything this window yet you will. You want to blame someone, and won't blame Levy, so best be blaming (another) manager. Rinse/repeat.

JamieSpursCommunityUser · Sep 2, 2014

yido_number1 said:
I'm not surprised with the amount of abuse they are getting but it would be a sad day for the club.

Which would you say is the biggest motivator for ENIC to sell?

1) Some disapproving remarks on Spurs Community.

Or

2) Turning a £250m profit.

St José Dominguez · Sep 2, 2014

WexfordTownSpur said:
"who I believe will turn out to be just as good if not better" If this were the case why didn't we go after him in the first place, what are our scouts, Manager and Baldini playing at bidding for MS - I think probably because they know something you don't.

And I am glad we filled those "massive gaps at the back" as shown against Liverpool last week. All working to plan.

Fazio wasn't playing in that game. Nor was Walker. Or Davies. Pochettino has clearly identified defence as weakness hence why we've bought 3 new defenders, one for January and a back up GK. To judge 3 games in that no improvement has been made is ludicrous.
Perhaps they genuinely couldn't get Schneiderlin or the price was far too high. And Stambouli was next on list, at a low price due to last year of contract and Poch is more than happy with him.

nedley · Sep 2, 2014

VegasII said:
No, but I wondered if it might have been Negredo on loan.

I doubt it.

JJ said he was hoping to see two forward players come in. And that tweet was after Valencia were in talks iirc.

JayB · Sep 2, 2014

WexfordTownSpur said:
"who I believe will turn out to be just as good if not better" If this were the case why didn't we go after him in the first place, what are our scouts, Manager and Baldini playing at bidding for MS - I think probably because they know something you don't.

And I am glad we filled those "massive gaps at the back" as shown against Liverpool last week. All working to plan.

It's pretty obvious why we'd prefer MS to Benji, he's experienced both in the league and in Poch's system and would therefore have slotted in seamlessly and eased the transition period that we are currently going through. The reason MS's valuation was so high was because Soton were flush with cash and had successfully negotiated outsized fees for everyone they sold this summer. Benji on the other hand was so cheap due to his contractual situation. Simply because there was a massive disparity in the two players' valuations does not mean that Benji must certainly be a drastically inferior player, though TBF he is obviously unproven in this league.

Ossie85 · Sep 2, 2014

Franchise60 said:
Maybe the issue was with waiting until Southampton to sell all of their other players before going in for Schneiderlin and Rodriquez ,ever think of that?

Stambouli is a similar player to Schneiderlin, read a scouting report. He brings similar quick passing from the DM position that Schneiderlin was valued for. So again, your blaming Poch for being stubborn and only wanting Schneiderlin when he did in fact buy a cheaper version of Schneiderlin. As for LW, we tried for Welbeck and failed, is that Poch's fault? We were interested in Depay and you have literally zero evidence, not even the faintest of rumors, that Poch was in anyway to blame for us not getting Depay. So basically, its Poch's fault we missed backup LW targets now too? Sorry but it doesn't add up.

Truth is you have very little evidence to blame Poch for anything this window yet you will. You want to blame someone, and won't blame Levy, so best be blaming (another) manager. Rinse/repeat.

I'll write it one last time, as you don't seem to understand what I write (or you don't want to).
To begin with, I might add this recent post from Trix on COYS

expect Tombola to be Capoue's regular CM partner before too long. Poch rates him and he was on Poch's list even if we got MS in

*Tombola=Stambouli
Stambouli is a destroyer from what I've seen, MS is more b2b. He is not MS backup. The fact that we still tried for MS even after getting him, should give you an idea.
As for Welbeck we failed because we tried only on loan (again verified by ITK), because Pochettino still would've wanted J Rod. I don't know for a fact if we would've signed him, but we surely would've had a better chance instead if we offered what they wanted. But no, Pochettino still wanted J Rod.

I might also add that I've practically always blamed Levy before for delaying everything til the last minute. I've also been more patient than most with manager. Basically everything you are accusing me of is wrong.

And i end it here, I don't have time for this. If you don't like my opinion, I don't care. I'm still going to say Pochettino was stubborn

Franchise60 · Sep 2, 2014

head in sand at its finest

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...-schneiderlin-mould-consistent-technical-meet

Schneiderlin and Stambouli don't have to be the same players to fill the same needs the side is lacking. Schneiderlin's main value is his quick, decisive passing to the front 4 giving a squad speedy transitions. He is also one of the best tacklers in the league. Stambouli brings quick passing from deep, good technique, and strong tackling. See a common value there?

Also, just because Poch wants both doesn't change the fact that Stambouli was a backup. We didn't move for him until Schneiderlin was pretty much out of the picture. We could still move for Schneiderlin next window, and then we'd have two more players who fill a valuable need in the same position, which would be quite good.

But keep reaching to toss out that blame.

scat1620 · Sep 2, 2014

Caught up on this thread since last viewing on Monday evening, and I'm absolutely loving your work, @SpartanSpur - don't think I've ever given so many positive ratings to one poster in such a short time. Have agreed with every word you've posted in this thread since last night, top quality debating, sir.

Only 1 Spurs · Sep 2, 2014

So when will Vertonghens new deal get announced? Or could he be having second thoughts on the whole thing?

Jonesywasbestever · Sep 2, 2014

coopsieyid said:
Not really saying much for the talent on this forum, considering there was no one on our pitch other than the groundsman last Saturday

OK, apologies to a clever dick, my mistake I of course meant Sunday.

Jospur · Sep 2, 2014

Is this closed transfer window the end of any incomings for us until the January window? For example, what about players from clubs in the Ukraine?

prawnsandwich · Sep 2, 2014

Jospur said:
Is this closed transfer window the end of any incomings for us until the January window? For example, what about players from clubs in the Ukraine?

http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/leagues_transfer_window.htm

Breezer · Sep 2, 2014

Probably my last bit of info for this window. The new guys looked great in training. Fazio strong as a Ox. Stambouli super sharp and confident. Sorry that's literally all I've been told.

yido_number1 · Sep 2, 2014

JamieSpursCommunityUser said:
Which would you say is the biggest motivator for ENIC to sell?

1) Some disapproving remarks on Spurs Community.

Or

2) Turning a £250m profit.

have you heard of tongue in cheek?

prawnsandwich · Sep 2, 2014

Clubs outside the Premier League can now utilise the loan window which opens on Tuesday, September 9.

It shuts on November 24 and reopens January 1.

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