The Mauricio Pochettino thread

buttons · Nov 10, 2019

It’s a really sad state of affairs but it really does feel like we’re watching the last days of Poch’s tenure. They say a team is a reflection of their manager and I am not sure that’s more true than right now; confused, lacking direction, not sure whether they really want to be here, tired, bordering on depressed.

really sad but I think we might need to make a change. It’s certainly not all on Poch, far from it, but we need someone who can come in, lift the depression and make these players believe they are as good as they can be again, even if it’s short term.

did not think I’d been typing this back on June 1st :cry:

double0 · Nov 10, 2019

VancouverSpur said:
There are always many moving parts at a football club. However when things are going poorly the quickest way to try and affect change is by bringing in a new manager. Changing ownership is a once a generation event or more and ENIC are not in it for the emotion or the love of the game and we have known that forever. For them money talks and nothing is going to change that.

Poch rightly can be frustrated with the way we operate but he has known it was this way from the start.. Factor in the talent we have in the squad and regardless of the wantaway players we should have more than enough to be competing for Top 4. You cannot tell me we should not be beating Colchester or Newcastle or Brighton or Watford or Sheffield Utd with the players we have.

Things are clearly not Right and yes that’s down to more than just Poch however no one can tell me that his selections or in game management or tactics have been amazing this season because at times they have been just awful. We can limp on for a while but it’s clear a change needs to be made.

Who do you suggest can take us forward.
Ponder this thought, you take away (the want aways and players past their best) ie Rose Toby Jan Eriksen Aurier Wanyama we have inexperienced EPL players in key position ie Foyth Sessesgnon Lo Celso Ndombele. Dier Davies Alli ain't fully up to speed. Is Sissoko really good enough?

We need to speed money and allow the rebuild to take place

Shadydan · Nov 10, 2019

wrd said:
What I meant by current ability is for example Wanyama now vs Wanyama at his peak as a DM. Same goes for Dier with the illness but unlike Wanyama he has the ability to come back. I'd agree on the CB's although Soyuncu is an unknown to me but I do think it goes to show that balance is key and it's no good having 6/7 good offensive options if you're missing 3 key ingredients as you say but that's why I think people overestimate our squad because we are missing key components of what makes a strong 11 which can compete. It's no good having great options like Moura and Lamela in reserve if your 11 has key holes and you only have to look at City to see that to be the case.

I disagree on Liverpool, they have a world class goalie, fullbacks are worldclass or at the minimum top class I don't there's many better than what Trent is offering atm. Van Dijk is best CB in the world, Matip is decent, Fabinho is a top level DM and they have varying CM's who are used predominately for workrate alone and a world class front 3. Their squad depth lets them down a little but they seem to get away with it and they've been too consistent over 2 seasons now to say they're punching, I think they're where they belong.

Liverpool are punching above their weight due to finances and resources which is what I meant in particular compared to Man City, they shouldn't be on par with them really but they are.

Again you're just agreeing with me lol Klopp is the reason why these players are playing at the level they currently are, Van Dijk, Robertson, Trent, Fabinho weren't anywhere near that level before they played for Liverpool but they've been given a platform in which they've been able to improve themselves. Liverpool have a system that works for their players where everyone understands their roles and they function perfectly as a team. Jordan Henderson is a perfect example, one of the most important players for Liverpool and rarely looks out of place but yet for England he stands out...and not in a good way.

The same way these players can improve over the last year or so is the same way players can deteriorate over the past year and what is happening to our players is the total opposite of what's happened at Liverpool.

hughy · Nov 10, 2019

He still here?

wrd · Nov 10, 2019

Shadydan said:
Liverpool are punching above their weight due to finances and resources which is what I meant in particular compared to Man City, they shouldn't be on par with them really but they are.

Again you're just agreeing with me lol Klopp is the reason why these players are playing at the level they currently are, Van Dijk, Robertson, Trent, Fabinho weren't anywhere near that level before they played for Liverpool but they've been given a platform in which they've been able to improve themselves. Liverpool have a system that works for their players where everyone understands their roles and they function perfectly as a team. Jordan Henderson is a perfect example, one of the most important players for Liverpool and rarely looks out of place but yet for England he stands out...and not in a good way.

The same way these players can improve over the last year or so is the same way players can deteriorate over the past year and what is happening to our players is the total opposite of what's happened at Liverpool.

Ah I see yeah I misunderstood, yeah completely agree they're punching compared to the vast resources of United and City.

WannaDanceWithUdogie · Nov 10, 2019

I want to know what that fucking 'promise' was that was made before the final

LeParisien · Nov 10, 2019

teenageYIDDO said:
I want to know what that fucking 'promise' was that was made before the final

Oh yeh.. what was that again ? About if they win ?

Lighty64 · Nov 10, 2019

WiganSpur said:
Pretty sure this is a troll account, easier to just ignore like I do

I also have 1 person on this forum to prove I go to games @rawhide , I would have had 2 others if @Dougal or @riggi had been able to turn up on the Palace match.

wonder how many games you've ever been too in your life.

I'm not bothered about being ignored by a knee jerker, and someone that complains every transfer window

Gb160 · Nov 10, 2019

Lighty64 said:
I also have 1 person on this forum to prove I go to games @rawhide , I would have had 2 others if @Dougal or @riggi had been able to turn up on the Palace match.

wonder how many games you've ever been too in your life.

I'm not bothered about being ignored by a knee jerker, and someone that complains every transfer window

He's quoting the poster he's talking about Lighty, click 'show ignored content'.

Spunkmonkey · Nov 10, 2019

Hercules said:
Does not bode well. I cannot just sit back and enjoy this dross. ENIC is all about corporate, and less about the football. So much of the corporate suites empty, and much more. Poch should of left in the summer with how he felt, but he didn’t. I would of. Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy too friggin stubborn.

They rather puppets as managers who will play the violin they are given. We are more than likely to loose major, major assets in the summer. They will take in all the cash, and spend piss all in comparison. Our ‘almost there’ days will flicker into the corridors of time. Ten more years will pass with fak all to show for it, but a training complex and stadium.

sadly it is more reality than I can even fathom to have nightmares about. Poch’s fall was his moods and loosing the plot all over the place. Very difficult to get the players back on his side. I sense more backroom staff in important departments of the club will seek pastures new. The asset stripping will gleefully please ENIC, as this will of nullified the stadium debts.

so in conclusion we are damned. And I wish Poch could perform a Lazarus, and awaken us. I would be among the first to applaud him. But in all honesty it is beyond repair now. What a mess. And the ones I feel really sorry for is us tgr fans.

Maybe I’m missing something but didn’t we spend over £100m on new players this Summer.
Last time I looked Levy doesn’t decide the tactics and substitutions during the game. Maybe he should!
As I’ve said before Poch should have left after the Champions League final. He was an emotional wreck before and after. The man needs a break from football.

VancouverSpur · Nov 10, 2019

double0 said:
Who do you suggest can take us forward.
Ponder this thought, you take away (the want aways and players past their best) ie Rose Toby Jan Eriksen Aurier Wanyama we have inexperienced EPL players in key position ie Foyth Sessesgnon Lo Celso Ndombele. Dier Davies Alli ain't fully up to speed. Is Sissoko really good enough?

We need to speed money and allow the rebuild to take place

Been well documented that Jan wants to stay and Aurier is a liability and Wanyama is finished at the top level. Eriksen has stunk the place out for the best part of a year and Rose has seemingly lost what he once had. The issue for me are not the want away players per se as even without them we should still have enough to be beating the teams I mentioned.

if you are looking at a short term 2 or 3 year fix then Mourinho is your guy. If you are looking for longer project then NagelsMann is your guy. Or if you want to go balls deep and make a statement you go all out for Simeone. He would be my ultimate pick if I could choose.

Shadydan · Nov 10, 2019

VancouverSpur said:
Been well documented that Jan wants to stay and Aurier is a liability and Wanyama is finished at the top level. Eriksen has stunk the place out for the best part of a year and Rose has seemingly lost what he once had. The issue for me are not the want away players per se as even without them we should still have enough to be beating the teams I mentioned.

if you are looking at a short term 2 or 3 year fix then Mourinho is your guy. If you are looking for longer project then NagelsMann is your guy. Or if you want to go balls deep and make a statement you go all out for Simeone. He would be my ultimate pick if I could choose.

Give me Mourinho whilst we can still enjoy Kane.

skaz04nik · Nov 10, 2019

Again you're just agreeing with me lol Klopp is the reason why these players are playing at the level they currently are, Van Dijk, Robertson, Trent, Fabinho weren't anywhere near that level before they played for Liverpool but they've been given a platform in which they've been able to improve themselves.

Sorry but that is not 100% correct

VVD has already had a proven reputation of one of the best defenders and Pool paid a then world record fee for reason. City were also for VVD
Same with Allison, Fabinho for me is great but not a world class yet

Note Klopp had a privilege to buy players he wanted for huge fees for several seasons in a row. Pretty much all of his recent signings are 60+ mill (and player worth 60 mill is already excellent for any club except United)

He has also had a privilege to throw out the players he didn't like and ask for top quality replacement. And the board agreed to that

Klavan, Sakho, Markovich, Benteke, Karius, Sturridge, Skrtel, Grusic, Clyne, Ings, Leiva, Allen, Alberto, Ibe, Solanke, Caulker, Ilori, Ward, Steward - all thrown out of the club by Klopp in 2016-2018

Lighty64 · Nov 10, 2019

Gb160 said:
He's quoting the poster he's talking about Lighty, click 'show ignored content'.

no he has already admitted he has me on ignore, he doesn't like people that disagree with him

edit: though I can understand why people would put @cookiemonster on ignore, only shows up when things are gloomy

shelfboy68 · Nov 10, 2019

skaz04nik said:
Sorry but that is not 100% correct

VVD has already had a proven reputation of one of the best defenders and Pool paid a then world record fee for reason. City were also for VVD
Same with Allison, Fabinho for me is great but not a world class yet

Note Klopp had a privilege to buy players he wanted for huge fees for several seasons in a row. Pretty much all of his recent signings are 60+ mill

He has also had a privilege to throw out the players he didn't like and ask for top quality replacement. And the board agreed to that

Klavan, Sakho, Markovich, Benteke, Karius, Sturridge, Skrtel, Grusic, Clyne, Ings, Leiva, Allen, Alberto, Ibe, Solanke, Caulker, Ilori, Ward, Steward - all thrown out of the club by Klopp in 2016-2018

He has been backed by an ambitious board something we don't have but klopp is still a better manager than poch tactically and from a motivational perspective.

Shadydan · Nov 10, 2019

skaz04nik said:
Sorry but that is not 100% correct

VVD has already had a proven reputation of one of the best defenders and Pool paid a then world record fee for reason. City were also for VVD
Same with Allison, Fabinho for me is great but not a world class yet

Note Klopp had a privilege to buy players he wanted for huge fees for several seasons in a row. Pretty much all of his recent signings are 60+ mill

He has also had a privilege to throw out the players he didn't like and ask for top quality replacement. And the board agreed to that

Klavan, Sakho, Markovich, Benteke, Karius, Sturridge, Skrtel, Grusic, Clyne, Ings, Leiva, Allen, Alberto, Ibe, Solanke, Caulker, Ilori, Ward, Steward - all thrown out of the club by Klopp in 2016-2018

Sorry but it is.

When he was at Southampton he wasn't considered as a World class defender, when did he win the player of the year? When did he win UEFA player of the year for example? He's only won that in the last year because he's been playing at that level at Liverpool. At Southampton he was merely a good defender with high potential, exactly the same comparison can be made with Maguire leaving Leicester, that's where Van Dijk was at.

I don't understand the how the rest of your post relates to mine, I'm not turning this into a transfer comparison, my point is about the form of our players and how they are punching below their weight and used Liverpool as a comparison who are the opposite to us.

mike_l · Nov 10, 2019

skaz04nik said:
Sorry but that is not 100% correct

VVD has already had a proven reputation of one of the best defenders and Pool paid a then world record fee for reason. City were also for VVD
Same with Allison, Fabinho for me is great but not a world class yet

Note Klopp had a privilege to buy players he wanted for huge fees for several seasons in a row. Pretty much all of his recent signings are 60+ mill

He has also had a privilege to throw out the players he didn't like and ask for top quality replacement. And the board agreed to that

Klavan, Sakho, Markovich, Benteke, Karius, Sturridge, Skrtel, Grusic, Clyne, Ings, Leiva, Allen, Alberto, Ibe, Solanke, Caulker, Ilori, Ward, Steward - all thrown out of the club by Klopp in 2016-2018

All of those players "thrown out" were either loaned out multiple times as we had to do with our deadwood, left for free at the end of their contracts, or were sold because a club actually made a bid and the player actually agreed to go there. They didn't exactly terminate any contracts.

Mr Pink · Nov 10, 2019

dondo said:
Your missing the point imo. Reading between the lines the he board have let him down
Pochettino wanted certain players out to rebuild the squad (the shot players) and ENIC wouldn’t buy until we sold (familiar story) so as it stands we are left with players not up to the way Pochettino wants them to play

I'm not missing the point, I've completely hit it.

We can speculate on who's at fault for different factors all day long, but he's responsible for coaching, motivating, preparing and picking the team that he has at disposal now.

It's not been good enough for far too long now, and this current group is capable of a lot more.

phillipjpalmer · Nov 10, 2019

12 games into the season and he doesn't have a clue what his best 11 is, hell he doesn't even know what formation he wants to play with.
I would still be behind him if he continued the high energy press and mentality he preached through our better seasons, even if it meant blooding younger players like lampard has at Chelsea.
Appreciate all he has done but sometimes you can only go so far with someone.

scat1620 · Nov 10, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
I'm struggling here to get this right here. If I want Levy/ENIC to leave or sell up, how do I go about it?

If you ever spend any money directly on the club (tickets/merchandise etc), stop doing it. I think more of us should, to send Levy a message in a language he understands.

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