Jose Mourinho

SpartanSpur said:

I think mug is a bit strong. It's quite common for long term capital commitments to have minimal impact on short term activity. Most of us here will have had experience of that with mortgages.

I believe the annual debt servicing has been reported at around 30-40m. The majority of that could have been covered by the naming rights (unlikely now!). The increase in revenues from the stadium were to be at least double that, so in reality we were better off than at WHL despite the scary looking debt figure. There was also the situation with the project that a lot of money was put down prior to the completion of the stadium. The loans were for £600-700m despite the cost being over £1bn. In many ways some of the austerity was front loaded.

I think there were merits to what Levy and Collecott were saying at the time. The outlay last summer was also significant.

That said this has also made us one of the worst hit by Covid-19 and playing games behind closed doors. We have a much higher % of turnover from matchday income than pretty much any other PL club I'd imagine, and are now probably 2nd behind Utd in debt repayments. Couple this with missing out on the CL windfall and it paints a pretty bleak picture.

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Bloody hell, I didn’t even consider the CL revenue. Pity they don’t do parachute payments.

SpartanSpur said:

Mourinho added: "What happens inside stays inside - I think that's a golden rule - but it was a very honest meeting.

"It wasn't a monologue, it was a dialogue, because the players also had the chance to speak with me, and we shared views, and we shared emotions, and we shared analysis.

"I've lost many matches in my career but the ones that gave me the worst possible taste are the ones where I feel we should do much more than we did."

This meeting makes me a lot more interested in watching tonights' game.

Attitude/Motivation - Big response tonight and you'd assume the meeting was positive and hope Sheff Utd was a bit of a blip. Another limp dick display and it's possible he's already lost the dressing room.

Lineup/Tactics - He said it was a two way dialogue, so you'd hope to see a few changes to how we setup tonight. Changing to a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 would give us a bit more stability and control, and probably wouldn't hurt our attacking threat. The attackers seemed to get in each others way at Sheff Utd.

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I'd like to see this given the fact (I thought) this was his meat and potato's ...

It's been a while since I felt this way about the end of a season.

spursfan77 said:

Only in the short term though and we took out a £170 million loan to cover that. Once the stadium is back up and running and fans are back in the stadium things will be back to normal.

We don’t actually know how profitable the stadium has been since we’ve been back in it as the last set of accounts didn’t take into consideration of all of the time we were back in it. We had record profits again off of the back of it.

It‘s why I’m wary of thinking that we won’t be active in the transfer market When it opens. Sure we might not be spending £100 million net but we’ve been linked with quite a few players valued around the £20 million mark. We will have to be creative in the transfer market for sure but I really can’t see us not spending money. Maybe not as much as we won’t be in the champions league but there will have to be investment.

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It's going to be lower budget stuff, but I agree in terms of numbers I expect us to get a fair few in, we need to.

Jose may well compromise on the cost of the additions, but he will not be wanting to go into next season with such an unbalanced squad as we have now.

Hopefully the loan will soften the blow for us, but the longer BCD carries on the harder it will hit us.

SpartanSpur said:

Mourinho added: "What happens inside stays inside - I think that's a golden rule - but it was a very honest meeting.

"It wasn't a monologue, it was a dialogue, because the players also had the chance to speak with me, and we shared views, and we shared emotions, and we shared analysis.

"I've lost many matches in my career but the ones that gave me the worst possible taste are the ones where I feel we should do much more than we did."

This meeting makes me a lot more interested in watching tonights' game.

Attitude/Motivation - Big response tonight and you'd assume the meeting was positive and hope Sheff Utd was a bit of a blip. Another limp dick display and it's possible he's already lost the dressing room.

Lineup/Tactics - He said it was a two way dialogue, so you'd hope to see a few changes to how we setup tonight. Changing to a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 would give us a bit more stability and control, and probably wouldn't hurt our attacking threat. The attackers seemed to get in each others way at Sheff Utd.

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Are they still filming that Amazon documentary? I hope they capture that footage if possible At this rate it's going to be the biggest car crash TV for years.

All these stories about Ndombele, whether true or not, are exactly the the crap I was worried about when mourinho was appointed. He plays mind games, airs dirty linen in public which doesn't really work anymore. It worked when he had Terry backing him up in the dressing room to build that seige mentality or get a player to buy in and pull his weight. Now players are more likely to respond to a softer approach. As a manager in the real world, I have noticed how a softer approach really works with millennials in my teams.

HildoSpur said:

Are they still filming that Amazon documentary? I hope they capture that footage if possible At this rate it's going to be the biggest car crash TV for years.

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I'm pretty sure this documentary is going to be enjoyable for everyone except Spurs fans at this point!

JayB said:

With respect to injuries, it's obviously a case-by-case basis. Kane picks up contact injuries but is perfectly fine when he's fit. Wanyama and Dembele, on the other hand, clearly had chronic issues. We sat on our hands and did nothing to resolve their situations as the quality of our midfield degraded from being arguably the best in the league to squarely mid-table quality. We have to be more proactive in solving the glaring issues in the squad even if it means some financial investment.

There was a thread on reddit yesterday debating ENIC's role in our downfall and one poster made the observation that Sunderland and Brighton have a significantly higher net spend than us over the past decade. Sunderland and Brighton. I completely reject the notion that it is only the wealthiest clubs that make investments in their playing squad. We've been virtually alone in adhering to the zero net spend model. When problems develop we take ages to resolve them, it's just not sustainable in any sense from a footballing perspective however good it might look from a financial perspective.

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Exactly!!

We are too reactive, not proactive.

If the club always ensured they signed players in positions of need, I think it would be harder to criticise them. You could still criticise scouting strategy but at least you could say the club are trying to cover all bases to ensure we are not short. But the lack of resolving festering issues has been a farce.

1. Dembele - we knew for sometime he was detiriorating yet relied heavily on him. He'd make 1 game out of 2 if we had two games in the week. That wouldn't be a problem too much if he was a full back or support striker but Demebele was our metronome, he made us a force in midfield. Last season we allowed him to stay on so that he could find a club who would pay him a high salary, meanwhile we REFUSED to bring in his replacement until he'd gone.........and we STILL didn't replace him immediately. How arrogant is that!

2. Wanyama - you summarised is this well so I won't repeat but another example of us waiting for the player to have packed his bags before we get active.

3. Kane - We have know for 2-3 years that we can't run him into the ground and that he needs to be managed and have an effective support option. Ok, we tried Jannsen, fair enough it didn't work out, that can happen. But our lack of proactiveness cost us. We waited until the 11th hour to bring in a player (Llorente) that did not fit our style and was approaching the end of his career. Short term fix. What we needed was a young hungry type or a big player. The fact that Llorente was used sparingly tells you everything about that signing.

4. Walker - when walker left we were expecting the club to bring in a replacement relatively quickly. Perreira or Cancelo seemed to be the playerd who we wanted. Then in early August Aurier's name started appearing. So once again the club are clearly working around a list instead of being firm and going all in for first choice. Aurier was clearly chosen has he was affordable and gettable. Forget strategy or whether he gives us the same as what Walker did, let's just sign him anyway.

5. Lucas - I will always love Lucas for his semi final performance but it also highlighted Lucas' problems. A very sporadic and individualstic player. I said at the time he wasn't what we needed. Son is our direct runner and what we needed was a more intelligent type. A Willian style player. Instead we fell into the trap of making a 'reaction' signing. Once again affordable and gettable. Not desirable and fitting with style.

6. Eriksen - We really stuffed this one. Grealish appeared to be the replacement in 2018 and had we got him maybe things wouldn't be so bad. But the fact is once again we came up wanting because we weren't proactive enough. That 5m Levy was trying to save has come back and fully bitten him in the arse now ha.

We can find excuses for why each of these situations materialised or we can get real and start to find the true fault to the way we operate. For too long Levy has been willing to sit around and wait for opportunities and take advantage of others unfortunate situations, now he's finding out (I hope) that the modern game calls for a proactive strategy. Liverpool being the prime example.

I am reluctantly going to remain patient and give Mourinho a chance. We need to be seeing improvements next season.

One thing that annoys me is his lack of creativity in terms of selections and ideas. I think it’s so clear that we should be trying Lo Celso in a more creative role. He is wasted playing so deep. Our midfield is not functioning at all and he isn’t adapting any new ideas or methods.

We know we don’t have a truly specialist DM, but why not try and utilise either Winks, Dier, Skipp or Sissoko in that role? Then have GLC and Nbombele free to play ahead.

Keep Son/Lucas/Bergwijn out wide to create attacking width.

I am certain this team would perform better than it is playing a narrow 4-2-3-1.

We do not have the players to play the way we are. Dele is not a creative 10 for me. His key skill is his movement. Although he has reasonable vision and creativity he is a technically awful passer of the ball and he cannot shoot from distance at all.

I just want to see Mourinho try another formation and another plan.

What better time than now? This should be used as an experimental period before next season.

stov said:

All these stories about Ndombele, whether true or not, are exactly the the crap I was worried about when mourinho was appointed. He plays mind games, airs dirty linen in public which doesn't really work anymore. It worked when he had Terry backing him up in the dressing room to build that seige mentality or get a player to buy in and pull his weight. Now players are more likely to respond to a softer approach. As a manager in the real world, I have noticed how a softer approach really works with millennials in my teams.

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In some cases I agree, millennials do tend to need positivity and a shoulder.

However, I coach and last season we had massive discipline and attitude problems. We had players criticising the head coach on the bench and crying about not playing. We had to run the riot act and implement a discipline approach and results did improve.

It depends on the group as a whole I guess. We had some of the older more respectable players complain about it, so I guess that made it easier for our approach.

If the rest of the squad are in the same belief that Ndombele is not shifting his weight, a soft approach won't work as it'll just piss the rest of the group off. But if the group are positive and believe he's working hard, Jose will need to cut the challenges at some point.

dudu said:

At said clubs, how many managers in general stay there for over 3 years?

Edit you know what, ill help you out. Since 2000 I believe it is

Inter Milan - 1

Real Madrid -1 and actually Jose was there longer than most in the last 20 years

Chelsea - can't be fucked to look it up but I'm guessing 0 and that Jose has been there longer than 90% of managers in the last 20 years.

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I don't quite get your point here. It’s not much different at Spurs. Pochettino and Redknapp the only ones there for more than three seasons since 2000.

swarvsta said:

I am reluctantly going to remain patient and give Mourinho a chance. We need to be seeing improvements next season.

One thing that annoys me is his lack of creativity in terms of selections and ideas. I think it’s so clear that we should be trying Lo Celso in a more creative role. He is wasted playing so deep. Our midfield is not functioning at all and he isn’t adapting any new ideas or methods.

We know we don’t have a truly specialist DM, but why not try and utilise either Winks, Dier, Skipp or Sissoko in that role? Then have GLC and Nbombele free to play ahead.

Keep Son/Lucas/Bergwijn out wide to create attacking width.

I am certain this team would perform better than it is playing a narrow 4-2-3-1.

We do not have the players to play the way we are. Dele is not a creative 10 for me. His key skill is his movement. Although he has reasonable vision and creativity he is a technically awful passer of the ball and he cannot shoot from distance at all.

I just want to see Mourinho try another formation and another plan.

What better time than now? This should be used as an experimental period before next season.

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Poch was probably right heading in the diamond formation with our set of players.

He probably wanted it to be:

Winks holding
Ndombele and Lo Celso in the middle
Fernandes as the 10

Son and Kane up front.

richard_gleeson said:

Poch was probably right heading in the diamond formation with our set of players.

He probably wanted it to be:

Winks holding
Ndombele and Lo Celso in the middle
Fernandes as the 10

Son and Kane up front.

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To have any chance for the diamond to work you need world class full backs, we certainly do not and didn't seem to be in the market seriously for any either. Our CBs would need updrading too as currently that 3 man midfield would also come up short defensively.

Trying to push the diamond was a big factor in his position becoming untenable IMO, as nice as that front 6 looks on paper.

SpartanSpur said:

Mourinho added: "What happens inside stays inside - I think that's a golden rule - but it was a very honest meeting.

"It wasn't a monologue, it was a dialogue, because the players also had the chance to speak with me, and we shared views, and we shared emotions, and we shared analysis.

"I've lost many matches in my career but the ones that gave me the worst possible taste are the ones where I feel we should do much more than we did."

This meeting makes me a lot more interested in watching tonights' game.

Attitude/Motivation - Big response tonight and you'd assume the meeting was positive and hope Sheff Utd was a bit of a blip. Another limp dick display and it's possible he's already lost the dressing room.

Lineup/Tactics - He said it was a two way dialogue, so you'd hope to see a few changes to how we setup tonight. Changing to a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 would give us a bit more stability and control, and probably wouldn't hurt our attacking threat. The attackers seemed to get in each others way at Sheff Utd.

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I agree although Im not so sure it means he's lost the dressing room. There's a good chance a lot of these players have lost motivation to play for Tottenham, not Jose.

I think when Jose came into the club he was right to say this squad was good enough to compete, albeit with a few additions.

However I imagine he's slowly realised that some of these players, whilst talented, either can't match the desire required or are not as tactically clever as he imagined.

Remember in the 2016-2018 period, we regularly battered teams with swift incisive moves. From WBA at the old WHL to Everton at Wembley or Liverpool at Wembley. That was with practically the same group of players (minus Eriksen) and I'd say that was fitting with how Jose wants his attack to be, quick in transition and get a goalscoring chance within 2-5 passes for example.

So, it's fair to say he imagined we had the talent. But we have several unforeseeable issues that he will only have realised first hand, unmotivated players being one of them.

richard_gleeson said:

Poch was probably right heading in the diamond formation with our set of players.

He probably wanted it to be:

Winks holding
Ndombele and Lo Celso in the middle
Fernandes as the 10

Son and Kane up front.

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I think that’s what he wanted. Scary.

spursfan77 said:

I think that’s what he wanted. Scary.

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Reminds me of Ossie, looking at it written down there haha.

How much would it cost to get rid of him at the end of the season?

h2005 said:

How much would it cost to get rid of him at the end of the season?

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Honestly, how the fuck would anyone on here know?

rossdapep said:

I agree although Im not so sure it means he's lost the dressing room. There's a good chance a lot of these players have lost motivation to play for Tottenham, not Jose.

I think when Jose came into the club he was right to say this squad was good enough to compete, albeit with a few additions.

However I imagine he's slowly realised that some of these players, whilst talented, either can't match the desire required or are not as tactically clever as he imagined.

Remember in the 2016-2018 period, we regularly battered teams with swift incisive moves. From WBA at the old WHL to Everton at Wembley or Liverpool at Wembley. That was with practically the same group of players (minus Eriksen) and I'd say that was fitting with how Jose wants his attack to be, quick in transition and get a goalscoring chance within 2-5 passes for example.

So, it's fair to say he imagined we had the talent. But we have several unforeseeable issues that he will only have realised first hand, unmotivated players being one of them.

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Yeah I can go along with that, maybe the take away would be 'he's going to struggle to get anything out of this lot without major changes'. I'd certainly be extremely pessimistic about his chances of success if we don't see an improvement this week.

Totally agree on the talent not being the issue, that is clear from the outside, the problem is definitely a combination of physical and mental issues.

Think the article below is quite a balanced and fair one. The bolded the last part as this made me realise even more f how close we were and how far away we are right now.


The best media seat in the Premier League used to be at White Hart Lane. Directly behind the dugouts, it didn’t help much if you wanted to observe patterns of play, but if you required a view of how fast, physical and athletic modern football is, then it could not be beaten. It was particularly impressive viewing back when Mauricio Pochettino was building something at Tottenham.

Players such as Toby Alderweireld, Kyle Walker, Moussa Dembele, Eric Dier and Harry Kane were prototype Premier League footballers. Big, quick, clever players, designed to win the 100-yard dash and rounds one, two and three of the big fight all at the same time. It must have been a rare old time to be a Spurs fan. Pochettino was smart, likeable and a young coach with a clear plan.

I recall them playing Pep Guardiola’s Manchester City at home in October 2016. Guardiola’s first season in England had been marked by a 100 per cent start to the league season, but Tottenham beat them 2-0 that day. The energy of Pochettino’s players as they ran all over City was fabulous to watch.

Spurs finished second that season after running Leicester close the year before. Two seasons later, they reached a Champions League final.
So to see Tottenham so diminished now is sobering. Their decline has not been particularly dramatic or spectacular. It will not make for car-crash TV when the Amazon Prime series about the club is aired later this summer.

Nevertheless, ahead of Monday night's home game against Everton, the club’s regression is steady and threatening to take them closer to Burnley, Newcastle and Crystal Palace than it is to the teams in the European places. The concern for them now is that this shift becomes permanent.

The appointment of Jose Mourinho was probably not the right one but it’s lazy to say he could never be successful there. It is not completely inconceivable that he could make Spurs a top four club again but to do so he would need money that he just is not going to get.

Certainly the manager is not the only cloud that will hover over Tottenham’s beautiful new stadium at kick-off on Monday night. The club borrowed £637million to build their home and what was a huge sum a year ago seems altogether more significant in the Covid-19 era. With no supporters spending money, two American football fixtures cancelled — the first one held at the stadium last October generated £1m in beer sales alone — and Champions League qualification no longer likely, it stands to reason that Tottenham will not be breaking a long-term habit of parsimony when the transfer window opens.

And that, more than anything, is the problem. Of all the missteps made at Spurs in recent times, the mismanagement of the squad has harmed the club the most.

Some good players — Walker, Kieran Trippier, Christian Eriksen — have moved on. Others — Dier, Dele Alli — have regressed, while many of the replacements — Serge Aurier, Davinson Sanchez, Tanguy Ndombele — have not yet made a significant mark at the club.

It does not really matter who your manager is if your players aren’t good enough and, although Mourinho is clearly part of the problem at Spurs, he is not the whole problem. Not by a long way.

And this is what is sad — not so much what Tottenham will become under Mourinho, but thinking instead about everything they have lost.

Oh Teddy Teddy said:

I don't quite get your point here. It’s not much different at Spurs. Pochettino and Redknapp the only ones there for more than three seasons since 2000.

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Many use Mourinho being only able to stay at a club for a maximum of 3 years as a stick to beat him with.