Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

BringBack_leGin · Sep 2, 2020

swarvsta said:
Lampard not a great playmaker or blessed with good vision? Jesus wept, are you serious?

Lampard’s vision and awareness were both fantastic attributes of his. He was slow on the turn and lacked pace, but his footballing brain kept him one step ahead. He was one of those midfielders who literally always had his head up and could pick a pass.

I said he wasn’t blessed with brilliant vision, but that he was a good passer. He was a world class midfielder and brilliant as a goalscorer who also worked his arse off. But in terms of brilliant vision, making things happen out of nothing, he wasn’t a Gazza or Le Tissier or a Silva.

I’m not sure why you mention his awareness, I alluded to nothing regarding this which was obviously great.

102 assists in 609 matches equates to about 6 assists a season across 38 matches. This was primarily playing for the best side of the era which scored bundles of goals, and playing very close to the centre forward until his legs necessitated him to drop deeper.

Dele, who I think you’d agree is not a great playmaker either, so far has a record equal to 8 assists per season playing a very similar role but for a worse side.

I love how you and @Timberwolf are twisting ‘great player, great midfielder, good passer’ into ‘shit passer no vision’. Yet more evidence of the lack of any nuance or grey area in this fucking place, it always has to be one extreme or the other. This is why SC has lost and continues to lose so many really good posters.

BringBack_leGin · Sep 2, 2020

Japhet said:
So much depends on how Mourinho wants to set up. With the signing of Doherty it looks quite likely we're in for more of the same with RB high up the pitch. Aurier had to be covered continually by Sissoko last season, but then we had no crativity in CM. Ideally I'd like us to have 3 in CM but then Mourinho has also seemed determined to get Dele on the pitch. With that in mind, I think we probably need a more workmanlike CM who has a decent defensive mindset if a CM2 is the way we're headed. In that case Sabitzer would be great but I think Brozovic might be a good fit too and may be a doable deal if Inter still want Tanguy. Winks would probably work reasonably well there too. Ndombele certainly wouldn't.

Can’t really disagree with any of that.

Look kids, a poster who can accept that his ideal isn’t going to happen but nonetheless understands that there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Quickly, get the torches and pitchforks.

swarvsta · Sep 2, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
I said he wasn’t blessed with brilliant vision, but that he was a good passer. He was a world class midfielder and brilliant as a goalscorer who also worked his arse off. But in terms of brilliant vision, making things happen out of nothing, he wasn’t a Gazza or Le Tissier or a Silva.

I’m not sure why you mention his awareness, I alluded to nothing regarding this which was obviously great.

102 assists in 609 matches equates to about 6 assists a season across 38 matches. This was primarily playing for the best side of the era which scored bundles of goals, and playing very close to the centre forward until his legs necessitated him to drop deeper.

Dele, who I think you’d agree is not a great playmaker either, so far has a record equal to 8 assists per season playing a very similar role but for a worse side.

I love how you and @Timberwolf are twisting ‘great player, great midfielder, good passer’ into ‘shit passer no vision’. Yet more evidence of the lack of any nuance or grey area in this fucking place, it always has to be one extreme or the other. This is why SC has lost and continues to lose so many really good posters.

You really need to calm down, and not take this forum too seriously. We aren’t auditioning to replace the Soccer Saturday pundits here. :cautious:

You said, and I quote:

Lampard “was never a great playmaker or blessed with brilliant vision”

I entirely and totally disagree with you. If that is a reason why SC ‘might lose so many brilliant posters’, then fuck it. I won’t lose any sleep over it!

Sadly, you probably will.

BringBack_leGin · Sep 2, 2020

swarvsta said:
You really need to calm down, and not take this forum too seriously. We aren’t auditioning to replace the Soccer Saturday pundits here.

You said, and I quote:

Lampard “was never a great playmaker or blessed with brilliant vision”

I entirely and totally disagree with you. If that is a reason why SC ‘might lose so many brilliant posters’, then fuck it. I won’t lose any sleep over it!

Sadly, you probably will.

In the post of mine you quoted you specifically said “Lampard not a great playmaker or blessed with good vision? Jesus wept, are you serious?”. This despite me literally saying in the post you quoted that he was a good passer, and only saying that his vision wasn’t brilliant, which leaves an entire spectrum below it from shit to very good.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, and providing some form of argument as to why if you can be arsed. I have every problem with you changing what I’ve said because you’re too lazy to put forth why you disagree with what I’ve actually said.

I’m particularly surprised at your exaggerative tone when I recall your incredulity at my slight hyperbole in calling Dier one of our best signings of the summer, but what’s a bit of hypocrisy between friends :cautious:

Anyway, this thread is about neither Dele nor Lampard so I apologise for this mass detailing and will stop now.

13VanDerBale13 · Sep 2, 2020

If we don’t sell him we gotta play him in the cup, have to make use of the squad as best as possible

BringBack_leGin · Sep 2, 2020

dovahkiin said:
BEN: we 100% do (want to get rid of ndom)
on finding a buyer: we have one i believe

Go give Dov rating love.

WiganSpur · Sep 2, 2020

13VanDerBale13 said:
If we don’t sell him we gotta play him in the cup, have to make use of the squad as best as possible

Only one he'll play imo is that one where we're gonna be fielding 90% U23 players. And we'll probably get knocked out so that will be the end of him.

Dean · Sep 2, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
Yes I’ve since realised it was the poster with the best screen name on SC (not being sarcastic), @Dean .

I’m not sure we haven’t replaced Eriksen. Rightly or wrongly with out counter attacking style Jose looks to be building around Dele, while Lamela you’ll note has played only down the middle too since Jose arrived. Pre season seems to support this. Bergwijn is also far more than just a winger from what I’ve seen.

I love a playmaker in CM, but these days that only really happens in a 3 and Mourinho just isn’t about that these days.

Ha ha! Is it a mystery as to what my REAL name is? What if it wasn't Dean?! Oooh, mysterious. And possibly sinister ?

Gspurs11 · Sep 2, 2020

If he goes, I’m wondering how the money is spent, especially with some ITK saying we’ll allocate it to 2nd striker etc.

We definitely need another creative midfielder with a similar potential, with options being fairly limited now: Van de Beek is off the table, Sabitzer named RB captain but could still be available for the right price? Grealish seemingly too expensive and Villa don’t need to sell but maybe offer a few players and be patient with the deal if Utd are out the picture? Either Sabitzer or Grealish would be great

Timberwolf · Sep 2, 2020

GRspurs11 said:
If he goes, I’m wondering how the money is spent, especially with some ITK saying we’ll allocate it to 2nd striker etc.

We definitely need another creative midfielder with a similar potential, with options being fairly limited now: Van de Beek is off the table, Sabitzer named RB captain but could still be available for the right price? Grealish seemingly too expensive and Villa don’t need to sell but maybe offer a few players and be patient with the deal if Utd are out the picture? Either Sabitzer or Grealish would be great

We could really use a direct replacement, but ultimately if no-one is available or we can't get top quality for the right price this window, I'd prefer we saved our money and waited rather than signing someone for the sake of it. Unlike Hojbjerg, Hart and Doherty which were fairly opportunistic, cheap, functional signings, if we're looking to spend a lot of money on an Ndombele replacement it's important that we get it right and don't make the same mistake again.

That said, if we could somehow get either Sabitzer or Grealish I'd be 100% in favour.

blanchflower007 · Sep 2, 2020

tiger666 said:
He's hardly played under Mourinho and we're 4th in the table since he took over. There are other ways to win football matches.

There are other ways to win football matches your right, however I did not watch us post lockdown and think, wow this is the attractive brand of football that I want to watch every week.

We cannot break teams down that sit back, it's been a problem for a long time and I might be in the minority here I don't know, but i feel that if we do not add more creativity to the team then we will drop points especially against teams we should be beating.

rossdapep · Sep 2, 2020

GRspurs11 said:
If he goes, I’m wondering how the money is spent, especially with some ITK saying we’ll allocate it to 2nd striker etc.

We definitely need another creative midfielder with a similar potential, with options being fairly limited now: Van de Beek is off the table, Sabitzer named RB captain but could still be available for the right price? Grealish seemingly too expensive and Villa don’t need to sell but maybe offer a few players and be patient with the deal if Utd are out the picture? Either Sabitzer or Grealish would be great

I think the most important transfer for the club right now is a striker. So I can see the club or Jose wanting to spend big on that area should Ndombele be gone.

If we do get the money in for Ndombele and we truly are in for Ings, I would be surprised if that's where a fair chunk of money went. I wouldn't be surprised if the club are waiting to see if we do get good money for Ndombele first and of not they'll go for a striker more attainable.

Then with the cash we get for any other sales I think we'll use it on a CM but not necessarily a Grealish type. Although I do think Grealish should be the target if Ndom goes.

DJS · Sep 2, 2020

I so hope latest Ben ITK of us having a buyer for him comes to play.

It would be a shame he didn’t work out but we need the cash input and to strengthen areas of our squad now and don’t have luxury of hoping players work out.

We need success next season to keep top guns like Kane and Son and money being available would be excellent for getting in much needed centre forward cover as well as hopefully a left back and maybe another engine room midfield (also factoring in hopeful Aurier money).

Ideally we’d also need an understudy for Doherty as well but if money is tight then Tanganga can do that for time being.

kent brockman · Sep 2, 2020

rossdapep said:
I think the most important transfer for the club right now is a striker. So I can see the club or Jose wanting to spend big on that area should Ndombele be gone.

If we do get the money in for Ndombele and we truly are in for Ings, I would be surprised if that's where a fair chunk of money went. I wouldn't be surprised if the club are waiting to see if we do get good money for Ndombele first and of not they'll go for a striker more attainable.

Then with the cash we get for any other sales I think we'll use it on a CM but not necessarily a Grealish type. Although I do think Grealish should be the target if Ndom goes.

Ings would be great, but (like you say) certainly would not come cheap.

If we would have any chance of landing/affording Grealish (after selling Ndom), I would easily do that and go for a cheaper striker like King (instead of Ings).

cliff jones · Sep 2, 2020

I don’t think Frank was a playmaker either fwiw - but he had great awareness and timing and was a great striker of the ball. But that’s got fook all to do with Tanguy.

I can see he has to go but having been lucky enough to see some great playmakers at Spurs down the years we will definitely be light in that department unless we do a deal on a replacement.

I cant see us scoring many if Gio is the only link to the forwards, you could see the expectation took its toll on him towards the end of last season.

one touch too many Erik will never be the answer either

as things stand, we don’t have enough creators

mr ashley · Sep 2, 2020

Considering possible available players who could fulfil the 8 role we need to fill if we sell Ndombele:

Van Der Beek- gone to Utd
Rakitic- gone to Sevilla
Sabitzer- captain at RB Leipzig (unavailable?)
Tiago-going to Liverpool by all accounts
Coutinho- part of the rebuild at Barcelona apparently
Grealish- big asking price
Doucoure- going to Everton apparently
Eriksen- being made available by Inter

I’m sure there are others I’ve missed, and equally I’m sure that some of the players listed people will turn their noses up at.
Ive no idea which players are affordable (and as we’ve seen clubs will look to be creative to balance their books Eg Arthur/ pjanic swap).
I’m sure there’s a top player that will become available for a price that is surprising. Most likely from overseas.

Personally, I’d chose Sabitzer if we couldn’t arrange a loan swap to get Coutinho. But if we could get Grealish I wouldn’t be upset at all.
And I’d take Eriksen back if we got a silly offer (not £42mil- more like a loan), because we know he could come in and contribute from the start).

The only other player I think would be interesting is Zaniolo. He’s not really an 8, but he could be an amazing talent. And we’ve been told that lamela would accept a transfer to Roma, so a part/ex isn’t totally impossible.
I wouldn’t want us to spend big on another striker. I don’t think there’s anyone else available that is drastically better than the players eve been linked to.
anyway, onions …

y1dk1d · Sep 2, 2020

I hope we either sell him or start him.

Can’t have a player worth his money doing nothing. Let’s replace him if we can’t get the best out of him

spids · Sep 2, 2020

All that BringBack_leGin and I have been saying is that, whilst a great player, fantastic technically and a very good passer, Lampard's main skill / asset was timing runs into the box and scoring goals. He was not a Coutinho, Sneijder, Eriksen type play maker who could unlock a stubborn defence (I am not saying he was a poor passer!). Mourinho managed great sides at Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, and Chelsea again. And he has had different types of CAMs in each team. Deco, Lampard, Sneijder, Ozil, Oscar. They did all have some traits in common - they were grafters for his team, they defended well, they were mentally strong, and they scored big goals in big matches. If he wants to play Dele in CAM then I reckon he knows a lot more about both Dele, and what makes a successful CAM, than any poster on here. Last season, when he (and the whole team) was pretty woeful and had injury problems he managed 8 goals and 4 assists in 25 appearances. If he scores 15+ goals and assists 10+ this season then I think he (and we) will have had a great season.

St José Dominguez · Sep 2, 2020

If we do find a buyer it will be interesting how we distribute the money on signings. We were linked to Barca B midfielder Lucas de Vega the other day for £4m, if he’s seen as ready enough to backup it’s not impossible it could be him and then we spend bigger on a Striker. Or it could be King and we spend bigger on a CM.

Montalbano · Sep 2, 2020

If we are selling our marquee signing we best be making another one.

Bring in Grealish.

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