Jose Mourinho

LeParisien said:

I’ve held leadership positions at two organisations.

The first organisation was on the brink when I joined and the top dog was leading a turnaround successfully. The culture at the start and the end were completely different. Many of the elements were the same. There was a gradual improvement in the quality of personnel but the big changes happened through leadership strategies and processes. And in the quality of relationships and morale.

In the second organisation (where I am now) the quality of personnel has stayed constant. The quality of leadership has had a deleterious effect over time. The loss of one key senior leader last summer (during a period where we are contending with Covid and Brexit) has had a huge impact in the quality of relationships and motivation.

The fact is that the staff can be made to shine by good leadership. This idea of some fixed mindset in an organisation is a myth. Football fans love myths but an elite organisation needs to rise above that (indeed it is on the leader to create that distance between internal processes which people can control and external noise. Equally a culture can degrade very quickly given poor results and a lack of direction.

These are just facts of organisations. The poor morale and performance at THFC are also facts but it can be fixed with better leadership.

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Gingernut said:

8 of the starting line up were at spurs before Jose.

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dudu said:

Leadership is important but employees at a regular company are absolutely nothing like footballers.

How many employees that were being managed had agents? Were some of them earning as much as the top managers? Could you sell those employees on for big wages? Keep them standing outside all day and just being them in to work when someone got a bit of carpal tunnel?

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LeParisien said:

10 of the squad weren’t. Play your signings.

But that point is not a necessary part of the broader argument.

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TheHoddleWaddle said:

So it's the morning after the night before, and reflecting back on the last couple of months after what was, yet another defeat, I'm one foot solidly planted in the 'out' camo. It wasn't the defeat itself, it was the manner in which the players performed that hurts the most.

Is it Jose 'fault?' Is it the players, or, is it just a combination of the both. Personally, I think the problems really kicked in after the West Ham 3-3 debacle. That's when he knew we had a team of weak, feeble minded players. For the most part.

Now I would love to know what was said, or what he did as it's been a black-run ski slope downhill in terms of football quality and mentality ever since. Whatever he said, seemed to resonate so loudly with said players that they have all simultaneously given up..... a managerial masterclass in bad delivery, perhaps? Misjudging the team etc. As the main man, he is the one that is ultimately responsible. His pedigree doesn't matter if he cannot get the players to buy into his methodology. That sits squarely on his shoulders.

However, I am also disgusted at our football players. Their attitude, heads down drop in form and actions as a collective. They shoulder a lot of this mess. (A few of them aside). I'd also drag Levy into it, for generally dreadful bargain basement player hunting. One or 2 decent signings have come good, but the likes of cheap skate loans on Gedson, Vinicius (not looking good to me) and PSG cast offs has left the squad mid table quality.

Whilst I am now one foot in the Jose out camp, I am also wondering what if or what's the point?

The club is, in my view, in need of an overhaul that starts with offloading senior players with miserable attitudes, a total rethink on player recruitment, and we need to sit back, buckle up for a long long road back to recovery.

The 'almost' nature, the always the bridesmaid and never the bride, nearly there epic nature of this club hurts more than anything. If, if if...... the clubs top bods had seized the opportunities presented 2 3rds into pochs reign, we might actually have kicked on.

Anyway, back to Jose. What manager out there could get this sorry mob doing anything of note? Then again, can it continue as it is? I genuinely don't want to watch the games they are that awful. I watched the west ham vs villa game and felt dirty enjoying the football.

Anyway, this isn't going to change quickly. Sad times as a spurs fan. Someone convince me all will be well.....

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Gingernut said:

Its big part for me when people aren't aiming blame at the players

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jeremystorey said:

That's funny. Cos I feel the entire mentality of just about every player we have is wrong for the club too.

No idea how is coaching is responsible for the umpteen mental mistakes we see defensively. Today was Dier's turn (again) to do something catastrophically dumb.

Oh, and I think I lost count after the 30th min of how many simple misplaced passes there were.

Let's also not forget all the players just standing around like statues. Refusing to budge. Move. Or try.

But if it makes everyone feel better to say it is all down to one person. Fine. You're right. The players have stopped making even the smallest effort.

Bring in the most attack minded genius in the land and let's see if they can turn these pathetic babies into men. 'Cos one thing I can also guarantee you is this... whoever your dream manager is will NOT be backed. They will have to deal with the exact same set of weak minded losers.

We're in deep, deep shit. And sacking Jose will not be a magical solution some seem to think it'll be. That's not to say he won't be going. 'Cos I can't see how he stays at this point, as the players have completely given up.

But by all means... let's give them a pass. It's all the manager's fault that they can't focus or put in any effort or pretend to give a shit. All because of Jose's philosophy, they can no longer make a 2 yard pass. Or mark someone. Or run into open space. Or do even the simplest of things, like not kick a fucking player in the leg while sitting on your arse in the penalty area. I'm sure that had everything to do with the Jose philosophy of playing.

Give me a break.

You'll get your wish. I don't doubt that. But what you won't get is someone who will turn us into anything resembling what we were 4 years ago. Not with these players. Not with this chairman. And not in this financial climate that will cripple us for the next three or four years.

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joelstinton14 said:

It feels at the moment that Jose doesn’t trust or know his best XI. And a group of players that are losing faith or don’t believe in Jose way.

Which only means one thing, he be gone in two weeks or he’ll be here till the summer and we have to make do and try and salvage what is left of our season (which is actually a lot).

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LeParisien said:

That’s fine but then you’re not responding to my argument.

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hellava_tough said:

I don't think it was the WH draw that did us in, because after that we won 5 from 6 including 4 straight wins in a row.

If anything it was the Palace draw in the 81st minute that started a poor run of results.

But as you say, I'm not sure what was said after that game, or perhaps the players began to feel sorry for themselves?

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LeParisien said:

I don’t think you really read the post you quoted.

As I said in the post you quoted, it is not the exact same set of players.

It literally is though. Yes he has had additions, but the majority of the squad is still the same. IE the core group that dictate the atmosphere in the dressing room and the attitude on the pitch. You can argue that he was backed to an extent in the summer, but bar PEH no one has really performed to his or our expectations. You simply cannot know that without trying. PEH shows the fight and intensity every player should show, why would he be putting in so much work and effort if he didn't have a good leader above him? The fault lies with both the leader and the players but in this instance the players are largely the problem.

As I said in the post you quoted, this is about relationships. The relationship between Poch and his squad degraded and was bad by the end and he had to go. As Poch would admit. However for many years that relationship was excellent. Squad potential was being maximised. At that point it was legitimate to ask whether we might be able to do better if more resources were given by Levy to the playing squad.

This point I can agree with, but one thing you haven't mentioned is when Poch arrived. He had to make wholesale changes to the squad, started using our youth a lot more and managed to turn a good few players into incredible players under him. He was given YEARS to do this, JM won't be given the same luxury. To cultivate meaningful relationships takes time. Time won't be given to him because he was brought in to try get a tune out of the squad that let Poch down after he gave them their best years of their careers. Once again, I think this is a difference of opinion and nothing wrong with that.

As I said in the post you quoted, this team is not playing to its full potential and needs a leader who can unlock its potential. This is not a group of players who are performing at their best and simply aren’t good enough to meet the fans’ expectations.

In terms of potential, are you talking about the new players or old? I Think these guys are worth the time -

Ndombele
PEH
Kane
Son
Lloris
Rodon
GLC
Bergwijn

I am sorry to say but other than youth, anyone not on the above list has had more than enough time and opportunity to show what they can do and they are simply not good enough. Under both Poch and JM. We do not need to have a team of world class players and that's not what I am insinuating but we do need a team of fighters and they need to have something we can work with.

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spurs-r-us said:

What year are you living in? ‘Turning boys into men’? You have about five international captains in the first team. Is it them or the dinosaur in charge leading them astray and sapping their creativity.

Would you be happy at work if you did nothing but spreadsheets all day?

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Gingernut said:

8 of the starting line up were at spurs before Jose.

And the two subs used too

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carpediem991 said:

Because most of the signings are even worse than the average we had.

The players deserve critivism, squad is average.

But the manager isnt helping any of them at all.

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spurs-r-us said:

Would you be happy at work if you did nothing but spreadsheets all day?

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stormfly said:

If Jose gets the chop, we’ll go back to a project manager. If that’s the case the ones calling for Jose’s head can’t get angry when we sell Kane and Son as there is no way they are hanging around for another 3/5 year project. That’s where we are at now. Either we give Jose a chance to turn this around or we lose our only 2 world class players but have a load of money to throw at a new project. Jose was our last throw of the dice to win stuff with these players.

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TheHoddleWaddle said:

Fair point about the results, but I'm pretty sure that was the catalyst in terms of the football changing?

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