Jose Mourinho

Japhet · Feb 5, 2021

commodoreLUNGE said:
I don’t think the players can’t follow his instructions, I just think that they don’t believe in what he’s feeding them. How much commitment would you have to instructions from your manager at work if you truly believed deep down that there was a better way, but he didn’t want to consider it? Probably with less commitment than if you really believed in their ideas is my guess. Especially if that manager has alienated some of your friends at work.

Secondly, who do you drop and who do you bring in? No one seems really bought into this style of football. You end up with lower quality players on the pitch who are no more committed to the style than the ones that have been dropped.

There are a few exceptions. Kane and Hojbjerg have been excellent and fully committed. Lamela and Lucas, for all their faults and shortcomings, always give 100%. But I bet even if you ask these guys if they believe this is the very best way to go about playing football, you won’t get many (if any at all) positive responses.

I don't blame the players for being disillusioned. The whole concept of letting the opposition have the ball and come at you is simply 'anti football'. Why would a professional player want to play that way? It now seems that they've completely forgotten what to do when we have the ball and can't wait to give the fucking thing back to the opposition in some kind of misguide belief that it will yield results. It's like sending a boxer into the ring with the instruction 'Don't worry how many times he hits you - at some point he'll leave a gap and you just knock him out'.

LeParisien · Feb 5, 2021

beats1 said:
LOL where have you got 10 from, the fact is despite signing 10 players Jose has spent around 75m which is fuck all nowadays

3 on the pitch
7 off it???
Hart(back up GK), Bale(loan signing, who has struggled for fitness for 2 years) and Rodon (back up CB brought for the future), Doherty (RB signed who has been bad as of yet)

Also the majority of his signings have been backups or for the future. Only Doherty and Hojberg were brought in to improve the first 11

Before LOLing maybe engage with the argument. You don’t look great when you leap on a post out of context.

First, it doesn’t matter if these players were found on hackney marshes. What counts is that Mourinho now has players who are his in the squad and that he has presumably asked for. He certainly made a play of having a realistic shortlist of players to buy to make the squad more complete. He also declared himself happy when it was all over. So it’s not true that he’s facing a hostile culture from players who did the same to Poch. At the very least that culture has been watered down by significant numbers of his players.

Second, as the post you quoted says it is irrelevant to the broader argument. Mourinho has failed to deal with the realities of a modern football club. People are having to paint the squad as toxic in order to absolve Mourinho of responsibility. Responsibility for his very job.

CheeseGromit · Feb 5, 2021

I am not trying to lay blame anywhere but the following is true

We were a successful side under Poch but could not get over the line in trophies. Was that the manager or the bottle ( mental strength) and ability of the players It went downhill rapidly with the CL final masking underlying issues but ultimately Poch paid the price with his job.

Poch was replaced by a serial winner who was known for his efficient (dour) style of football but it had brought him and his clubs success.

The rational reasonably could be seen that take a group of fairly successful footballers instill some mental hardness and whilst they may not be PL champions that should win a trophy or two to provide a springboard for the future

That has not happened in a spectacular fashion Players have not adapted, may not be possible for them to do so and manager has not compromised so stalemate again.

The dilemma is now.
Revert back with the old failings with the strong likely hood of falling short again or on soldier on with the new ones an risk being not able to adapt and tripping up

I thought he term "Spursy" related to the team I now understand it to mean the club. We have a club with a first class stadium and training facility but we dont understand how to evolve as a club into a first class club

I hate the current style but it did feel to me that there was at least a base to start with but that does not appear to be achievable at least with the current crop of players. The chairman knew how JM had achieved his previous success through buying players so why ask him to do something different now That doesnt make sense

To sack JM would only revert us back to where we have already been To keep him will certainly cause at least short term issues. There is no natural choice out there especially for the players we have.

Either give JM money which has not been the modus operandi for the club or take several huge steps backwards. What a waste of stadium and resources

A massively uncomfortable place for DL There is no easy answer

HildoSpur · Feb 5, 2021

I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

Gassin's finest · Feb 5, 2021

Aphex said:
This x 1000. When die hard fans start turning away from the game because it's so terrible, Levy should be extremely concerned. Football clubs are nothing without the entertainment factor. I can barely watch it on TV. There is no way I'd travel four hours round trip in the cold wind and rain to watch this in the stadium and nor would 60,000 others.

We are all different of course but I have a threshold where, when I get to the point where I lose interest in the games and basically stop getting nervous / excited, then that's basically the point of no return. Normally a home defeat to Chelsea I'd have been distraught / apoleptic rage, but I was totally indifferent, just sad basically, because I expected it, and that for me is the worst feeling you can get as a fan.

I don't expect Jose to turn this around, I've never seen a manager turn around a team from the point we are at now. If we beat WBA on Sunday it'll be a scrappy 1 nil win but to be honest, a hard working Allardyce side is probably a nightmare right now, can easily see us getting beat.

A win however it comes will just delay the inevitable. The poor performances have been happening for a year really, 3 months ago Southampton first half we were beyond awful, to be honest Jose has never really got us going at all, it's just been bits, fits and starts. It feels like our wins come from moments from our best players rather than any grand plan. Why would we suddently start playing well now? No, not happening.

Tbf, we've never really given anyone the chance.

spursfan77 · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

So then it begs the question and one I haven't thought about asking since Sherwood was in charge.....do we want us to lose?

rez9000 · Feb 5, 2021

LeParisien said:
First of all, respect is important. I don’t play passive aggressive games and I’m willing to justify any rating I give. I don’t know what post you’re referring to. Either my disagree was about another part of his post or it was an accident. Happy to retract or explain if you tell me what post.

I can be forthright but I think I’m humble too.

Mourinho has more influence on the playing talent than any other person at the club. He is paid big bucks in consideration. It is normal that he is held responsible for managing those players.

I don’t think we have a situation like France 2010 where scum bag players were running the show like Évra, Benzema and Ribéry. But even then I hold Domenech responsible for picking those players. Deschamps came in and said squad morale and certain standards of behaviour were a prerequisite. He got rid of the trouble makers and banned our beat striker by a mile (Benzema) before the euros. How we needed him in the final. He also worked with « notorious » folk like Pogba and has got the best out of him. Looks world class for France - in Deschamps words he needs minutes and love. Deschamps’ tactics are not a million miles from Mourinho.

All this is to say that senior leaders need to bear responsibility for the significant power they wield and use that power to shape outcomes for the collective. Many examples of managers doing that in difficult changing rooms. It was something that many thought Mourinho would do (a selling point if you will) but he has not managed to do that so far. There’s little evidence we’re moving in the right direction either.

So, that's your response instead of apologising? At least I'm 'humble' enough to admit when I've crossed the line. Here's the post in question that you 'Disliked'.

-Afri-Coy- said:
Fucking love you @rez9000 this is spot on. Bunch of losers in our team.

But that's it from me. On ignore.

Tucker · Feb 5, 2021

spursfan77 said:
So then it begs the question and one I haven't thought about asking since Sherwood was in charge.....do we want us to lose?

Depends if there’s a significant upturn in performance. I think we need him to succeed because I don’t know who we realistically get in that will fix things going forward.

Metalhead · Feb 5, 2021

CheeseGromit said:
I am not trying to lay blame anywhere but the following is true

We were a successful side under Poch but could not get over the line in trophies. Was that the manager or the bottle ( mental strength) and ability of the players It went downhill rapidly with the CL final masking underlying issues but ultimately Poch paid the price with his job.

Poch was replaced by a serial winner who was known for his efficient (dour) style of football but it had brought him and his clubs success.

The rational reasonably could be seen that take a group of fairly successful footballers instill some mental hardness and whilst they may not be PL champions that should win a trophy or two to provide a springboard for the future

That has not happened in a spectacular fashion Players have not adapted, may not be possible for them to do so and manager has not compromised so stalemate again.

The dilemma is now.
Revert back with the old failings with the strong likely hood of falling short again or on soldier on with the new ones an risk being not able to adapt and tripping up

I thought he term "Spursy" related to the team I now understand it to mean the club. We have a club with a first class stadium and training facility but we dont understand how to evolve as a club into a first class club

I hate the current style but it did feel to me that there was at least a base to start with but that does not appear to be achievable at least with the current crop of players. The chairman knew how JM had achieved his previous success through buying players so why ask him to do something different now That doesnt make sense

To sack JM would only revert us back to where we have already been To keep him will certainly cause at least short term issues. There is no natural choice out there especially for the players we have.

Either give JM money which has not been the modus operandi for the club or take several huge steps backwards. What a waste of stadium and resources

A massively uncomfortable place for DL There is no easy answer

Well put.

HildoSpur · Feb 5, 2021

spursfan77 said:
So then it begs the question and one I haven't thought about asking since Sherwood was in charge.....do we want us to lose?

No I want us to win every single match.

WalkerboyUK · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

He would get Everton on Wednesday in the FA Cup, regardless of Sunday's result.

Styopa · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

A lot of people seem to be saying this but what is it based on? Just a hunch?

Metalhead · Feb 5, 2021

Styopa said:
A lot of people seem to be saying this but what is it based on? Just a hunch?

Hunch. No-one knows, they are just licking their finger and sticking it in the air. Who knows what Levy is thinking. He might be ready to act or he might be set on giving it more time.

JCRD · Feb 5, 2021

CheeseGromit said:
I am not trying to lay blame anywhere but the following is true

We were a successful side under Poch but could not get over the line in trophies. Was that the manager or the bottle ( mental strength) and ability of the players It went downhill rapidly with the CL final masking underlying issues but ultimately Poch paid the price with his job.

Poch was replaced by a serial winner who was known for his efficient (dour) style of football but it had brought him and his clubs success.

The rational reasonably could be seen that take a group of fairly successful footballers instill some mental hardness and whilst they may not be PL champions that should win a trophy or two to provide a springboard for the future

That has not happened in a spectacular fashion Players have not adapted, may not be possible for them to do so and manager has not compromised so stalemate again.

The dilemma is now.
Revert back with the old failings with the strong likely hood of falling short again or on soldier on with the new ones an risk being not able to adapt and tripping up

I thought he term "Spursy" related to the team I now understand it to mean the club. We have a club with a first class stadium and training facility but we dont understand how to evolve as a club into a first class club

I hate the current style but it did feel to me that there was at least a base to start with but that does not appear to be achievable at least with the current crop of players. The chairman knew how JM had achieved his previous success through buying players so why ask him to do something different now That doesnt make sense

To sack JM would only revert us back to where we have already been To keep him will certainly cause at least short term issues. There is no natural choice out there especially for the players we have.

Either give JM money which has not been the modus operandi for the club or take several huge steps backwards. What a waste of stadium and resources

A massively uncomfortable place for DL There is no easy answer

Youre right, all that is true but I hear this alot that this is the price for trophies.... is it? Since when was cowardice or ultra defensive and dull football and winning trophies become mutually exclusive? It isnt.

Look at Liverpool - we really need to look at and follow Liverpool as a perfect example... and I absolutely despise them with all my strength but they were very much like us who even started at a lower base as us (werent we ahead of them in terms of our development, i mean we hammered them 4-1 and could have been 7-2 by the end) - they have won the CL and the PL without having spent a tonne... they sold Coutinho to fund the two main purchases needed... i wouldnt sell Kane but we have a lot of dross we can sell for a good few quid.... give it to the new manager and lets fucking get going...

spursfan77 · Feb 5, 2021

Metalhead said:
Hunch. No-one knows, they are just licking their finger and sticking it in the air. Who knows what Levy is thinking. He might be ready to act or he might be set on giving it more time.

He'll be giving it more time but sounding out other options just in case. That's what he does and what any prudent chairman should do.

HildoSpur · Feb 5, 2021

Styopa said:
A lot of people seem to be saying this but what is it based on? Just a hunch?

It feels inevitable at the moment - the players appear to have lost all confidence and look uninterested.

anydange · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

A draw should have him fired too. Anything less than a win against relegation fodder is unacceptable. Big Sam will play him like a fiddle though, can see it now.

VancouverSpur · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
I think its fairly safe to say that if we lose at the weekend Jose is probably gone.

Have not lost 4 PL games in a row since 2004 when we lost 6 on the spin. So would be surprised if we lose against WBA and he survives.

Hopefully we can put in great performance and it gives a lift for the Everton game...once can but dream.

Styopa · Feb 5, 2021

HildoSpur said:
It feels inevitable at the moment - the players appear to have lost all confidence and look uninterested.

I sort of agree. But as @Metalhead commented above it's not clear where Levy might draw the line with this.

He might prefer to wait until the end of the season to appoint a new coach, in which case he might give Mourinho some more time while he looks at other options.

There may also be performance related break clauses in the contract that become applicable only at the end of the season.

Alternatively Levy may believe we still have a shot at the top 4 and decide a new coach is our best chance of making that.

Or he might think a new coach will destabilise us even more in the short term and that it is better to stick with Mourinho until the end of the season at least, especially whilst we are still very much involved in all of the cup competitions.

And of course Levy may still have faith in Mourinho and believe he is still the right man for the job - there are plenty of posters here who continue to believe.

There are so many variables it's difficult to guess what and which way Levy will be looking at this. And maybe Levy's not even sure himself yet.

LeParisien · Feb 5, 2021

rez9000 said:
So, that's your response instead of apologising? At least I'm 'humble' enough to admit when I've crossed the line. Here's the post in question that you 'Disliked'.

But that's it from me. On ignore.

I was very reasonable but that’s fine. No need for drama on an online forum ?

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